How do I make tanks stop pulling so I can drink?

[Bigbazz]

... But you would then be in the target audience for remotely ambitious M+.

I disagree, unless you're talking leaderboard competitive M+ (which is an absolute tiny fraction of the playerbase) most people are pugging a lot. Since most people's interest in M+ is lost above a +15, it's not relevant to the discussion what people who are running 21 keys are doing, but since RIO exists people will still pug high keys, and I see it regular enough.

It's not 2008, pugging is a regular part of the game even for high level content.

[Omedon]

I disagree, unless you're talking leaderboard competitive M+ (which is an absolute tiny fraction of the playerbase) most people are pugging a lot. Since most people's interest in M+ is lost above a +15, it's not relevant to the discussion what people who are running 21 keys are doing, but since RIO exists people will still pug high keys, and I see it regular enough.

It's not 2008, pugging is a regular part of the game even for high level content.

Just because "most people" are doing it doesn't mean it's the design intent. My impression from outside looking in is the M+ PUG scene is either miserable (thus this thread) or heartlessly mercenary (which is not an experience WoW wants to promote, thus the hands-off approach of no automated queue), so while it is indeed happening... it's not necessarily intended.

[Bigbazz]

Just because "most people" are doing it doesn't mean it's the design intent. My impressions from outside looking in is the PUG scene is either miserable or heartlessly mercenary (which is not an experience WoW wants to promote, thus the hands-off approach of no automated queue), so while it is indeed happening... it's not necessarily intended.

What exactly is "intended"? They put the tools in the game to allow you to easily pug high level content and it has been a mainstay of the game for what is now the 3rd expansion. Exactly how is this "not intended"? The only aspect of the game that does not allow for easy pugging by design is Mythic raiding, everything else is designed fit for purpose to be pugged in the most flexible manner.

And yes "heartlessly mercenary" is what happens when content is difficult and failure is heavily punished, you cannot afford to take a chance on people. That may be a design flaw, but it has nothing to do with pugging. With the tools available you're just as likely to find some of the best players by pugging and that's why you see people running extremely high keys searching for players in LFG.

[GnomeEU]

I understand Op problem.
There is severe disparity of mana consumption between healers. Playing both Disc and Holy priest, the second one is mana hungry.
Breaking the M+10 barrier with pride buff every 20% was a god send. I don't know how I will manage next season without this buff.
Another very heavy affixe is Spiteful. As long as one player is targeted by Shade, the healer is still in combat. The group can't really wait for 5 more seconds before next pack.
last starw was blizzard decision to nerf mana regen at start and ramp it. It seriously impeded the "run in advance, sit for 3sec and go".

I think in the next season we will outgear 15 by a lot.
Also there might be mana trinkets added etc.

To topic: As someone said, if you're a tank it's a great idea to let the healer get out of combat for 1 sec after every pack. A good healer knows when to drink and won't slow the group down this way.

[Amariw]

If i understood correctly OP is a mistweaver, and while they really are more mana intensive, it can be exacerbated by how the rotation is easy to play "wrong" and cost you more mana then you should. I'll list some tips that made it easy for me to get past 10s, if all of these are obvious to you, you can keep moving, but maybe one or two will be worthwhile advice:

-Fistweaving helps mana, but you absolutely do not need it for low-mid keys. Before prideful, your tools are enough if you play right, and after prideful your throughput is more important and fistweaving's benefit to throughput isnt as huge as its benefit to mana efficency.

-Do not overuse Enveloping Mists. A lot of its "power" is in the 40% buff to future healing, not in its own healing. Its meant to be used as a primer for other spells when someone is taking extreme damage. Renewing Mists-boosted Vivifies are very strong on their own and will often be enough to top anyone that isnt the tank in 2-3 casts if you're in decent gear for your key. Renewing+Enveloping+Vivify should ussualy be saved for very heavy or very burst tank damage, and is indeed one of mistweaver's strenghs, as few other healers can do that level of burst single target outside cds.

-Barely ever use Essence Font. Around 25% of its raw healing is in the hot, but in a 5 man party you will unavoidably refresh the hot since there simply aren't enough different people for each of the "bolts" to hit. It loses a lot of its mana efficency that way and simply doesn't heal all that much. There are some niche cases where you have to move so its better to cast it then do nothing, or when you abuse its double mastery effect fater channeling it for half a second (ye, just for the hot, and only when you have surplus mana). But otherwise, rely on Renewing Mist boosted Vivifies.

-Abuse Renewing Mist. Its strong efficent healing and empowers Vivify's to cleave some healing to its targets. This is your main, most efficent and fairly decent tool for aoe healing. It is ussualy better to Thunder Focus Tea this hot rather than Vivify, because the longer duration will add up for a ton of healing in sustained damage scenarios due to vivify getting to cleave 3 or even 4 players.

[baskev]

9 out of 10 tanks that I come across in M+ seem to be blind and illiterate, because I've got a WeakAura that automatically sends a message to the party when I drop below 30% mana, and even with that, tanks ignore it and continue to go off chainpulling when I'm at 10% and drinking. And with how close together most trash packs are, I have barely any time to drink. I end up spending the entire dungeon below 40% mana because tanks just chainpull nonstop.

No, I can't "drink while the tank pulls" because they often just start taking loads of damage as soon as they engage mobs. Even trying to drink after every pull, I'm running up and just barely saving the tank from death as I struggle to spam heal them, which wastes even more mana.

Should I just let them die if they won't let me drink? That's likely the only way I'm gonna get their attention if multiple party chat messages aren't doing anything.

let them die?. shout OoM. threaten to leave. and let them die!?

[ellieg]

Why play the game stressed ? Defeats the purpose of playing a game.

But many solutions have been posted. We will see if OP follows any of them or updates us on it.

To clear it on time lol.

[TigTone]

To clear it on time lol.

Yea but that doesn’t have to be too stressful. Just a little is fine the fun amount ha.

[whywhatwhowhenhow]

You say " I need some mana" or "Let combat end, got no mana" so you can drink between pulls.

Amazing what a bit of communication can do.

[Ragil666]

Don't let another player control your character. If you feel you need mana, sit and get mana. If they die because they aren't watching your resources, that's an error as a tank, not a healer. If it's becoming an issue, politely address it in chat. No group moves at the same pace, if your tank wants to chain pull with minimal breaks, he should find a group of friends that want to do so.

[oplawlz]

At high keys that's pretty normal. If you check videos tanks keep pulling while the whole party is at 20% hp and the healer is on low mana, they still manage to do the packs/boss

I mean look at it this way: if they let you drink 10 times for 20 seconds in the instance, that doesn't sound much, but in reality that's 3min 20sec wasted time on a run where the last boss usually dies 1 or 2 min before the timer.

Learn to sip whenever you can, even if it's a few sec, and start using consumables, potions.

(obviously talking about 12+ keys, if you running lower keys you just ran into some tryhards)

Edit: all those "just let them die" experts in the comments, they clearly never did anything above 2+, but if you want to take their advice that's a good way to stuck in low rio hell with no timed runs

Those groups you're seeing vids of are premades - they know their limits. Doesn't work in pugs.

[munkeyinorbit]

9 out of 10 tanks that I come across in M+ seem to be blind and illiterate, because I've got a WeakAura that automatically sends a message to the party when I drop below 30% mana, and even with that, tanks ignore it and continue to go off chainpulling when I'm at 10% and drinking. And with how close together most trash packs are, I have barely any time to drink. I end up spending the entire dungeon below 40% mana because tanks just chainpull nonstop.

No, I can't "drink while the tank pulls" because they often just start taking loads of damage as soon as they engage mobs. Even trying to drink after every pull, I'm running up and just barely saving the tank from death as I struggle to spam heal them, which wastes even more mana.

Should I just let them die if they won't let me drink? That's likely the only way I'm gonna get their attention if multiple party chat messages aren't doing anything.

Are you timing it?
If yes then stop complaining.
If no then drink more.

It's pretty simple.

[ZazuuPriest]

9 out of 10 tanks that I come across in M+ seem to be blind and illiterate, because I've got a WeakAura that automatically sends a message to the party when I drop below 30% mana, and even with that, tanks ignore it and continue to go off chainpulling when I'm at 10% and drinking. And with how close together most trash packs are, I have barely any time to drink. I end up spending the entire dungeon below 40% mana because tanks just chainpull nonstop.

No, I can't "drink while the tank pulls" because they often just start taking loads of damage as soon as they engage mobs. Even trying to drink after every pull, I'm running up and just barely saving the tank from death as I struggle to spam heal them, which wastes even more mana.

Should I just let them die if they won't let me drink? That's likely the only way I'm gonna get their attention if multiple party chat messages aren't doing anything.

if you have 40% mana in a M+ and the tank doesnt pull he doesnt know what hes doing. If you have 10% mana in a dungeon the tank should wait until youre drinking and approaching 40% before they should pull again. There is no use in you ever being topped off on mana that just means youre wasting time. This seems to be an istance of you thinking a tank is going to die instantly (aka yo dont know what youre doing) or the tank actually dying when youre low mana (you both dont know what youre doing) either way its a you issue.

[Whitedragon]

Honestly as a tank I try to watch my healers mana, and at around 35% or so I'll ask if they need a second. I will admit that sometimes I just kind of get into an auto pilot mode and forget to keep that in mind and that is a failing on my part. The biggest point of contention in my groups tends to be DPS who feel free to pull when ever they want (Usually when the heals is drinking...) and expect me to get it off them. I will usually save their buts once but let them die after...

I'm sorry you have had bad luck with other tanks, some of us still love our healer friends. As for what to do, I would just ask them to try and watch your mana and at the start of the run, at a level you feel comfortable going down to tell them to hit the brakes.

[Raisei]

As a Tank I have my UI set up to see the healers Mana. If I see it dipping low I stop, because I like being healed. If others are too stupid to do it, they are not good at their role.

[erifwodahs]

As a Tank I have my UI set up to see the healers Mana. If I see it dipping low I stop, because I like being healed. If others are too stupid to do it, they are not good at their role.

What if you don't expect you healer to OOM in two pulls by using wrong healing spells? Or never sips? Is that tank mistake or healer? Maybe tanks are teaching OP a lesson on how to use mana properly and do sips ?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Don't worry. At least with this week's affixes tanks have to actually do stuff which means like 50% of them will just be dead on thier own and rage quitting because most of them aren't to good at much of anything. So plenty of oppertunity to drink. They will be asking how everyone else lived and you can just me like... I pushed W and my character moved away.. it was amazing.

[anon5123]

Found out that the problem is mostly shitty tanks not playing correctly. In lower keys (2-4) tanks would just get smashed by every trash pack, but in higher keys (5-8) they seem to take way less damage. No seriously, after doing a bunch of +7 and +8s, I did a +4 just to test out a new legendary and talent setup, and it was WAY harder to heal. I was having to spam the fuck out of the tank just to keep him above 50% on most pulls. On a +4. At 195 ilvl.

And similarly, I just had an awful tank that kept breaking CC every pull, which would lead to him getting like 30+ stacks of necrotic super quickly and dying because of it. And then had the gall to whine at me for "not healing enough". Fucking retard.

What if you don't expect you healer to OOM in two pulls by using wrong healing spells? Or never sips? Is that tank mistake or healer? Maybe tanks are teaching OP a lesson on how to use mana properly and do sips ?

You can't "sip" anymore with how mana drinks have changed to ramp up their regen. If you "sip" you're only going to get 5-10% mana back.

[erifwodahs]

You can't "sip" anymore with how mana drinks have changed to ramp up their regen. If you "sip" you're only going to get 5-10% mana back.

so.. how is that bad?

[MrPaladinGuy]

Have a macro ready that says you need to drink after this pull (so the tank has warning) and if the tank pulls and dies it's their fault.