Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Thepersona]

My country recieved around 4mm doses of sinovac vaccines and starts the mass vaccination next monday. So yay i guess.

And no new pfizer doses until... Well to be determined.

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Well, they did throw crapload of cash at AZ and others, no? Into hundreds of millions, IIRC. Supposedly not yet fully paid, but that should still be normal, payment as deliveries proceed.
You do have the special deal as basically the test bed for mass vaccination of a whole country, though, and the scale is different. Pfizer's sudden "we gotta do changes at factories" still allows the 10 million large Israel to receive enough for it, while someone like Poland alone needs 4 times as much.

But this all is going to be "fun", EU has approved export restrictions for vaccines and published the AZ contract, export more back and forth arguing.
Also, AZ vaccine is now officially approved in EU, making it the 3rd one after Pfizer and Moderna.
P.S.
I can smell the eurosceptics rearing their heads.

Hey, it could be worse. We will recieve the AZ doses in March.

[Crispin]

I have no clue how the EU countries managed to fuck it up. Should have tossed that $$ at Phizer/Moderna/AZ.

Here, anyone who is 35+ or 16-18 yo can get it through app appointment and fast.

In the UK?

Thing is tho, when is the 2nd shot available? While the UK have been quick to get 1st shots out, have anyone gotten 2nd ones yet? I really do hope so, having viruses in semi vaccinated people, might not be helpful in regards to mutations.

[Zantos]

We're a remarkably resilient and creative species though. And I actually think it's practically impossible for a virus to make the human race extinct. Something that can kill the vast majority of hosts isn't going to spread very far, and even with an unusually long incubation time we can still react to minimise the damage.

If anything's going to wipe us out, it'll be a supervolcano, asteroid, or climate change.

This pandemic proves otherwise imo. Barely deadly in itself and perfectly manageable, yet the US f'd it up so badly. It got spread because someone didn't want to own up and admit it when it got started. People are now in the mindset of "I saw no one die so its a hoax!" The biggest problem would be the wrong people getting a more deadly virus and halting any chance at a vaccine.

I truly believe it will the lack of caring for others that will bring down humanity. The only reason it might survive a apocalyptic pandemic is because the last few million would be so far spread it wouldn't be able to take hold anymore. Assuming of course that they can survive without technology and they have some since of how to farm and if they can even do that.

[PACOX]

Another vaccine just finished trials, and this one only needs one dose.

CNN: Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine is 66% effective in global trial, but 85% effective against severe disease, company says

The more shots the better but I can't see anyone getting this shot when Pfizer and Moderna are on the market unless they are desperate and/or afraid of mRNA tech.

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In the UK?

Thing is tho, when is the 2nd shot available? While the UK have been quick to get 1st shots out, have anyone gotten 2nd ones yet? I really do hope so, having viruses in semi vaccinated people, might not be helpful in regards to mutations.

When did you guys start your first shots? Technically second shots should not be a problem. If anything you stagger the new wave of 1st doses to make sure people get their second.

At least you guys are getting 1st shots. As of Monday I shouldve been getting my second shot, still having received my first. I'm very pessimistic about the general population being done by summer time (US) unless the federal government puts a lot of pressure on local governments.

[Granyala]

I truly believe it will the lack of caring for others that will bring down humanity.

Caring for others will come automatically once our asses are on the line and we depend on others.
Part of why the US reacted the way it did is because SARS-CoV-2 isn't an apocalyptic superbug. If it were, no one would have compared it to the flu, there would not have been discussions about whether lockdowns are justified etc.

Lets face the brutal reality here: A virus that mostly culls the population of 80+ is not a problem in a natural "species survival" sense.
It is normal that nature regularly eliminates the weak and frail. Given the jungle capitalism mindset of the US, I am not surprised in the slightest, that many Americans think nothing of such a virus as well.

[Forogil]

The more shots the better but I can't see anyone getting this shot when Pfizer and Moderna are on the market unless they are desperate and/or afraid of mRNA tech.

There are a number of factors.

Even if Pfizer and Moderna are on the market they are not delivering enough yet; and a 66% effective vaccine now protects more than a 95% (or 90-97%) effective that you get in 6 months.
Additionally the cold chain is a bit of a problem in many countries.

IfWhen covid shifts from a pandemic to an endemic disease in a year or so you will anyway consider another vaccination and re-evaluate that.

[Crispin]

The more shots the better but I can't see anyone getting this shot when Pfizer and Moderna are on the market unless they are desperate and/or afraid of mRNA tech.

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When did you guys start your first shots? Technically second shots should not be a problem. If anything you stagger the new wave of 1st doses to make sure people get their second.

At least you guys are getting 1st shots. As of Monday I shouldve been getting my second shot, still having received my first. I'm very pessimistic about the general population being done by summer time (US) unless the federal government puts a lot of pressure on local governments.

I don't live in the UK. We do however still see people get sick after their 1st shot, there's a reason it needs 2 shots. However in the UK they're going nuts on 1st shots, and delaying the 2nd shot much longer than adviced by the companies producing them. There was even talk about giving patients a 2nd shot of a different brand, so 1st shot pfizer 2nd shot astrazeneca (or however you can mix it)

In the UK some 500k people have gotten a 2nd shot, and are fully vaccinated.

[postman1782]

The Trump Administration's Air Strikes in Somalia Are On the Rise Again—and Civilians Are Paying the Price

Trump’s brand of war is killing more civilians than before

Trump may have bombed Yemen more than all previous US presidents combined, new report finds

After Trump Loosened the Rules of Engagement, Civilian Casualties in Afghanistan Rose by 95 Percent

Trump administration drops bombs at record pace in Afghanistan war

Trump pledged to stop 'endless wars' but his airstrikes in Afghanistan increased civilian deaths by 330% since 2016


Orange man bad, indeed...


EDIT: haha, forgot what thread I was in and got pulled off-topic. Swerving back on-topic...

And all of this we aren't sure about, simply because they stopped reporting on the bombings they did.

[Pann]

The people I know that got the AZ shot a couple weeks ago were told they'd get their next shot in about 12 weeks (which, as I understand it, may as well just void the first shot entirely because efficacy drops so low by that point) because the government pushed it back that far from 3/4 weeks.

Pascal Soriot thinks that 12 weeks is a perfectly safe interval and "...you get a better efficiency if you get the 2nd dose later than earlier" but what does he know?!?

[Crispin]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...y-uk-regulator

Pfizer/BioNTech said that their vaccine was not designed to be used in two shots 12 weeks apart. In a statement, the firms said there was no evidence the first shot continued to work beyond three weeks.

There are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days,” they said.

https://twitter.com/PatelOncology/st...590208/photo/1

AZ's data is very sketchy, which is why Germany wont use it on people older than 65. Even saw a professor say that had students delivered data like AZ did, they'd be told to redo it.

I do hope it'll work for the UK, but I prefere sticking to "we know this works" over "this could work", but fact remains that they havent vaccinated 10 million people, 10 million have received the first dose, there's a reason why it's a 2 dose vaccine.

[LeGin Tufnel]

I've been a key worker since the first lock down. I worked in a Dunelm Warehouse making sure people had the essential house furnishings required in a national emergency. This lock down my Brother In Laws fiance is a key worker who is absolutely required to work from an office working as a third party insurance salesman.

Very key, much essential. *Nods head*

Oh Mike Ashley selling bicycles too if you want something you can pull an article up about.

Que? Retail workers aren’t “critical workers”.

Who off this list would you not call a “critical worker”:

1. Health: Doctors, nurses, midwives, paramedics, social workers, care workers, and other frontline health and social care staff including volunteers; the support and specialist staff required to maintain the UK’s health and social care sector; those working as part of the health and social care supply chain, including producers and distributors of medicines and medical and personal protective equipment.
2. Education and childcare: childcare, support and teaching staff, social workers, specialist education professionals who must remain active during the coronavirus (COVID-19) response to deliver this approach
3. Key public services: those essential to the running of the justice system, religious staff, charities and workers delivering key frontline services, those responsible for the management of the deceased, journalists and broadcasters who are providing public service broadcasting
4. Local and national government: this only includes those administrative occupations essential to the effective delivery of: the coronavirus (COVID-19) response, and the delivery of and response to EU transition
5. essential public services, such as the payment of benefits and the certification or checking of goods for import and export (including animal products, animals, plants and food), including in government agencies and arms length bodies
6. Food and other necessary goods: This includes those involved in food: production, processing, distribution, sale and delivery, as well as those essential to the provision of other key goods (for example hygienic and veterinary medicines)
7. Public safety and national security: police and support staff, Ministry of Defence civilians, contractor and armed forces personnel (those critical to the delivery of key defence and national security outputs and essential to the response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak and EU transition), fire and rescue service employees (including support staff), National Crime Agency staff, those maintaining border security, prison and probation staff and other national security roles, including those overseas.
8. Transport and border: this includes those who will keep the air, water, road and rail passenger and freight transport modes operating during the coronavirus (COVID-19) response and EU transition, including those working on transport systems through which supply chains pass and those constructing or supporting the operation of critical transport and border infrastructure through which supply chains pass.
9. Utilities, communication and financial services. This includes: staff needed for essential financial services provision (including but not limited to workers in banks, building societies and financial market infrastructure), the oil, gas, electricity and water sectors (including sewerage), information technology and data infrastructure sector and primary industry supplies to continue during the coronavirus (COVID-19) response, key staff working in the civil nuclear, chemicals, telecommunications (including but not limited to network operations, field engineering, call centre staff, IT and data infrastructure, 999 and 111 critical services), postal services and delivery, payments providers, waste disposal sectors

That’s the list.

Starmer / Labour has repeated he wants to bring forward vaccination of critical workers alongside others in high risk groups. I completely agree with him.

——

I don't. I deliberately wrote emergency personnel, not health care and social workers in general.
Prioritizing nursing home staff (etc) is a different issue - they are important to avoid them infecting the elderly, not because they are key workers.

When you dilute "key worker" too much it loses its meaning.

Well - ok, but who on the list I've quoted above would you say isn't a critical worker (I've been misusing the term 'key', gvt defines them as 'critical' so I'll use that).

Do you think there should be different levels of "critical" importance? IDD but in which case that needs to be determined then.

I still believe that all the workers above should be bumped up the priority list, definitely at the expense of others in the *same* age group who are not on the list.

I’m not going flat out and saying vaccinate purely on the basis that “risk of exposure” trumps “risk of death”. Of course not. But there is a balance to be struck. It’s not black and white.

Anyway, it's too late. Frontline NHS personnel weren't prioritised in the first group. In my opinion, they should have been. And, yes, I hope e.g., Labour’s push to get teachers vaccinated as a priority happens.

[PhaelixWW]

The people I know that got the AZ shot a couple weeks ago were told they'd get their next shot in about 12 weeks (which, as I understand it, may as well just void the first shot entirely because efficacy drops so low by that point)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...y-uk-regulator

Pfizer/BioNTech said that their vaccine was not designed to be used in two shots 12 weeks apart. In a statement, the firms said there was no evidence the first shot continued to work beyond three weeks.

There are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days,” they said.

WSJ: Can Covid-19 Vaccines’ Second Dose Be Delayed?

What does the data say about effectiveness as periods between doses were stretched?

It depends on whom you ask.

U.K. authorities said that after three weeks, the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine was around 70% effective up until the second dose, even if that was 12 weeks later. The data analysis made public by the U.K.’s drug watchdog—the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency—said that waiting longer than 12 weeks might actually boost efficacy past the 80% mark, but said the sample sizes were too small, rendering the data unreliable. Their analysis said to stick with 12 weeks between doses to be safe because that data is robust. Earlier published trial results of the vaccine had shown that two full doses, with varying intervals between them, to be about 62% effective. U.K. officials said they had time to analyze the data in different ways to understand it better.

The truth is that we don't know, but I'd say that there's very little chance of a longer wait making the first dose useless. No matter what, the first dose is going to prime the body's immune system, and that benefit doesn't just disappear.

The real problems are going to be a) people just not scheduling a second dose once they've gone months since the first dose, and b) the increased possibility of mutation.

[Forogil]

Well - ok, but who on the list I've quoted above would you say isn't a critical worker (I've been misusing the term 'key', gvt defines them as 'critical' so I'll use that).

All except those I listed.

Obviously there will be a bit of a problem if a teacher or chef is away for a month, but nothing catastrophic. If everyone in one of those roles went ill at the same time it would be worse - but that's incredibly unlikely.

So, just prioritize the ones at the highest risk of dying, i.e. the elderly.

[LeGin Tufnel]

All except those I listed.

Obviously there will be a bit of a problem if a teacher or chef is away for a month, but nothing catastrophic. If everyone in one of those roles went ill at the same time it would be worse - but that's incredibly unlikely.

So, just prioritize the ones at the highest risk of dying, i.e. the elderly.

OK, we're going to have to disagree.

IMO consideration of: risk of exposure, potential for reducing onwards transmission, and whether the person performs a "critical" or "non-critical" role has to play a part in determining vaccination order, and not be based solely on risk of death.

[Forogil]

WSJ: Can Covid-19 Vaccines’ Second Dose Be Delayed?


The truth is that we don't know, but I'd say that there's very little chance of a longer wait making the first dose useless. No matter what, the first dose is going to prime the body's immune system, and that benefit doesn't just disappear.

I see that as a major flaw - we don't know; and the idea with testing a vaccine before using it is to know.

We have indications that 26 weeks (or so) after an infection we start to see re-infections, so it seems there's some limit to the priming.

I tried to see if there was more data:

The EU authorization for AZ vaccine is 4-12 weeks between doses, with an efficacy of 59.5% (confidence interval 45.8-69.7%).
Some got the 2nd dose up to 23 weeks after the first dose, and that slightly increased the efficacy, but I don't see how that they have any statistically significant data for that.

Especially as the data for the elderly was that of the participants that were 56-65 years old and 65+, there were 8+2 cases of Covid among the vaccinated and 9+6 among the controls. Indicating that the vaccine might be as efficient as for participants 18-55 years old, or totally ineffective (or...).

The infection-risk after only one dose isn't listed, but the positive sign is that no-one got seriously ill after dose 1 fully took effect (after 22 days) - even without 2nd dose, while 14 of the control-group got seriously ill - 6 before the 2nd dose should have kicked in, and 8 after.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documen...rsement_en.pdf

[Edge-]

So a bunch of anti-vaxxers shut down the biggest vaccination site in the US today. We really gotta start funding education appropriately.

I'm increasingly alright with punitive measures for these people. Like, kicking them off of any government benefits. They deserve it.

[szechuan]

So a bunch of anti-vaxxers shut down the biggest vaccination site in the US today. We really gotta start funding education appropriately.

Deplorable, they were told not to wear any MAGA Clothes and Items, These are the same idiotic Qtard Trumpers.

[Corvus]

I'm increasingly alright with punitive measures for these people. Like, kicking them off of any government benefits. They deserve it.

Australia already has this, with a No Jab, No Pay and a No Jab, No Play policy. Basically some benefits are cut off if you have not vaccinated your kids and childcare centres get fined if they let unvaccinated kids in.

Made a small difference but there are still plenty of crazies out there and a lot of them homeschool as well so it is hard to educate the kids.

[Granyala]

It's insane that your state even allows nilly willy homeschooling.

[JohnBrown1917]

https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/e...property-dogma


Intresting podcast on how IP protections by rich countries and companies are preventing a lot of poorer countries from producing vaccines at a level they can afford them too.