Should they change bloodlust / heroism in BC?

[arkanon]

Not when he's the GM...

And none of these prot paladins are ever main tanking through all of the raid. They're just allowed to mt 2 bosses at best and off-tank on 3 other bosses (and yes, even as the GM).

And this proves nothing. At best it shows the opposite... like that outside of a handful of tryhard guilds who want to prove something, no one is inviting them. On classic, even the most casual raiding guilds will require you to purchase prep, get world buffs etc. and so tbc won't be any different. In TBC 95% of the raiding guilds will require you to have LW and the 5% that don't are either gonna be guilds that won't achieve anything or are just said that guilds that will try to prove something and only achieve certain things by min/max in other areas where the vast majority of other guilds wouldn't.

Haha, that's some insane levels of mental gymnastics. "they only have a group because if they didn't have a group, they wouldn't have a group. But they do have a group. Which is lucky, because otherwise they wouldn't have a group.".

Fact is these people find groups, even on sub optimal classes and specs. All the time. Like......all. The. Time.

[durenas]

I think they both should be changed to include an exhaustion debuff, but stay party wide. They have value as a dps cooldown, but there should be some party synergy going on, so we don't see comps with only one shaman just for bloodlust(not that I really think that will happen a lot).

[RobertMugabe]

Haha, that's some insane levels of mental gymnastics. "they only have a group because if they didn't have a group, they wouldn't have a group. But they do have a group. Which is lucky, because otherwise they wouldn't have a group.".

Fact is these people find groups, even on sub optimal classes and specs. All the time. Like......all. The. Time.

That's a way to just spin my words without providing any counter argument. Do you have anything useful to say besides trolling and proving that you have no idea about this matter?

Also yes, of course you can make a guild of like minded people. The point though is that 99% of the time these guilds never achieve anything and in 1% they do with a significant effort elsewhere. Either way, all these tryhard guilds make up a tiny amount of all guilds and the vast vast majority of all paladins that have ever planned to play prot are playing holy now (or a different classic... or not at all).

I know that you never have played classic (at least not the endgame) and are just trolling on this subforum, so I don't even know what you're trying to argue here to anyone (unless you take pride in being recognised for shit posting).

[Nite92]

If that's how it worked they should keep it that way.

It's supposed to be TBC classic, not TBC minus the shitty parts of TBC.

We saw what happened in classic. Some changes might be good

[arkanon]

That's a way to just spin my words without providing any counter argument. Do you have anything useful to say besides trolling and proving that you have no idea about this matter?

Also yes, of course you can make a guild of like minded people. The point though is that 99% of the time these guilds never achieve anything and in 1% they do with a significant effort elsewhere. Either way, all these tryhard guilds make up a tiny amount of all guilds and the vast vast majority of all paladins that have ever planned to play prot are playing holy now (or a different classic... or not at all).

I know that you never have played classic (at least not the endgame) and are just trolling on this subforum, so I don't even know what you're trying to argue here to anyone (unless you take pride in being recognised for shit posting).

This is all just hyperbole and entirely fabricated numbers. 99% this, 1% that - its a dead giveaway that YOU have zero clue what you are talking about. The earlier iterations of wow are so void of difficulty, especially classic, you can literally play anything you want. Guilds and pugs want the same thing - 40 ppl. You can spend a bit of time looking through logs if you want, you might learn something.

[JoeGood]

ofc it shouldnt be changed. People want classic and TBC? Then play the games as they where..

[ntlntl]

We often get confused by the word “change”. None is asking for big change. We would love some fix and tuning for the better of the game.

It should have been #nochangewithfix

[Essem]

Raid wide with a debuff, no changes to drums.

It's just degenerate gameplay to keep swapping in shamans one after the other to lust the hunter or warlock grp.
It's one of those obvious choices that will make raiding more fun for everyone (except for hunters/locks).

[kranur]

What is it with you people and all these kins of changes to classic versions of the game?
Why don't you just play fucking Shadowlands if you need them?

- - - Updated - - -

We often get confused by the word “change”. None is asking for big change. We would love some fix and tuning for the better of the game.

It should have been #nochangewithfix

Yesh, that's how Shadowlands got to where it is, small changes ... read above.

[Zuvio]

They should only remove the Leatherworking requirement on using the drums.

Sweaties can still sweat with drums.
Leatherworking can still make money on making drums.
Everyone can use drums without sacrificing a profession slot.

win - win - win -win

[INVASMANIXOXOXO]

They should only remove the Leatherworking requirement on using the drums.

Sweaties can still sweat with drums.
Leatherworking can still make money on making drums.
Everyone can use drums without sacrificing a profession slot.

win - win - win -win

It brings an interesting choice though, because there are other really beneficial professions like alchemy for healers or enchanting for everyone. If you do this for example every healer would just be alchemy/enchanting until you get the illidan trinket or something. I do not support changing blood lust in the way the op describes. His reasoning to me is really weak. Yes there will be some degeneracy that happens, but whatever lol who cares?

One change that I do support 100% though is giving alliance paladins seal of blood and the alliance one to blood elves. I think if they do not make this change (and it is way more minor than having shamans and paladins separate) that the game will not have a healthy faction balance.

[Zka]

I appreciate and support no changes, but things that totally break the game when placed into 2021's gaming community should be fixed. In context of BC this means:

- absolutely no world buffs at any point, they are fucking cancer
- drums MUST be reworked to incur a debuff. Or just removed, I don't care. I don't want constant drumming to be mandatory at any point, it's fucking up the raid tuning so much.
- hero/BL is fine
- shifting people between groups midfight was a useful tool but modern minmaxers will abuse this for EVERYTHING including shit like warrior shouts and I don't think this is enjoyable or healthy in any shape of form

- - - Updated - - -

What is it with you people and all these kins of changes to classic versions of the game?

Replaying a whole expansion with talents, professions and skills set to the final patch is a big change in itself, but it's probably inevitable. Also, the community's mindset has changed A LOT since BC. The goal of NO CHANGES is to most closely reproduce the original game experience, but many proponents of this movement just ignore the fact that the game MUST be changed to most closely reproduce the gameplay difficulty and experience we had back then.

[RobertMugabe]

What is it with you people and all these kins of changes to classic versions of the game?
Why don't you just play fucking Shadowlands if you need them?

This is the typical comment from someone who is clueless about what is being talked about and someone who most likely isn't even interested in playing classic, so he wants people that are interested to have the least fun possible.

Saying that TBC with small changes is basically like SL is an even dumber thing to say. Modern versions have changed massively in their design with everything from class design to pvp tuning, gearing, balance, personal/group responsibility etc etc.

Doing some tuning and changing things a little bit isn't gonna give us Shadowlands. Buffing/nerfig a spell by 3%, changing the way how X items or spells works isn't gonna make the game like SL. And nobody serious is talking about adding things like transmogs, LFR, pet battles etc. into TBC classic either.


I doubt that people here are actually this stupid that they can't tell the difference between various types of "changes" and only think in black/white matters... at this point I just believe that those people who aren't going to play classic either way just want to ruin the fun for those that do.

[Akka]

They should add the exhaustion debuff, there is nothing fun in swapping people to maximized a single group, and drums should cause this debuff. But this is not provided in the poll so I'll go with "no swapping people".

I also notice notice that in this thread, the ones who shout that it should not happen are mostly the ones that hates Classic and only come on this sub-forum to shit on it. Pretty much tells everything one should know about this.

[Fathr]

This is all just hyperbole and entirely fabricated numbers. 99% this, 1% that - its a dead giveaway that YOU have zero clue what you are talking about. The earlier iterations of wow are so void of difficulty, especially classic, you can literally play anything you want. Guilds and pugs want the same thing - 40 ppl. You can spend a bit of time looking through logs if you want, you might learn something.

Nope, people dont just take 40 people unless you are talking about mc and bwl, in there it doesnt matter greatly, but most guilds will be picky when the content is "new" as they want to clear it the fastest and most convenient way. Who wants to be in mc for 3 hours plus because you took 10 retributions with you, especially if it can be done in an hour and a half with better composition ? It's not about the class per se it's about the way a class works, and their synergies. If anything Classic have proven this, like going into naxx with 20 plus warriors and a few rogues depening on gear, the rest are there for soulstones & water (there will be the odd composition in there that includes a ret pally for kicks and out of pure necesity). Difficulty isnt a major factor but time spent & progression is (for those that still hasnt completed naxx).

[tikcol]

Hmmm very hard question.

Some changes are very unwelcome. It's very tempting to see changes like this as good for the game and the players. Simply because any guild worth its salt will only accept players with leatherworking and that is very annoying. Even for hardcore players like me...

But, it's what I call a dirty change. It fundamentally changes raiding. I vote a clear No.

At least nobody is claiming rigged polls in this thread. Very happy to see it

[RobertMugabe]

Hmmm very hard question.

Some changes are very unwelcome. It's very tempting to see changes like this as good for the game and the players. Simply because any guild worth its salt will only accept players with leatherworking and that is very annoying. Even for hardcore players like me...

But, it's what I call a dirty change. It fundamentally changes raiding. I vote a clear No.

At least nobody is claiming rigged polls in this thread. Very happy to see it

You do want LFR to be added to TBC, but this change is too extreme lol.

And then you get triggered and wonder why people call you a troll

[Fathr]

My point is:
Keep the BL as it is but add a debuff on the group like 10 minutes, unless killed.
The same with drums massive debuff on party like 10 minutes, unless killed.

The whole LW beign a necesity in TBC raiding is beyond daft in my book, and well end up with something similar til World Buffs (which was nice while leveling but moronic as a meta for anything else, use 30 min to get buffed and raid log for the day or the week) It was counter productive that we'd want people to play but punish them by doing so.

[arkanon]

Nope, people dont just take 40 people unless you are talking about mc and bwl, in there it doesnt matter greatly, but most guilds will be picky when the content is "new" as they want to clear it the fastest and most convenient way. Who wants to be in mc for 3 hours plus because you took 10 retributions with you, especially if it can be done in an hour and a half with better composition ? It's not about the class per se it's about the way a class works, and their synergies. If anything Classic have proven this, like going into naxx with 20 plus warriors and a few rogues depening on gear, the rest are there for soulstones & water (there will be the odd composition in there that includes a ret pally for kicks and out of pure necesity). Difficulty isnt a major factor but time spent & progression is (for those that still hasnt completed naxx).

10 rets? See, more hyperbole - if your argument is so weak you feel the need to continue presenting extreme scenarios far removed from reality, its probably time to walk away.

[tikcol]

You do want LFR to be added to TBC, but this change is too extreme lol.

And then you get triggered and wonder why people call you a troll

LFR is a clean change because it doesn't change the game for anyone else besides the people that would leave the game in the first place.. It's very sad to imagine a bot ridden/ghostcity outlands.

Let me have my min maxing..