If you hate Raider.IO so much then...

[kaldari]

yeah thats not gonna fly, and its definitely not "easily fixed"

fail/success ratio aint gonna work either, you are being punished by others in your party failing runs leaving etc

Since everyone faces that same problem it would average out among everyone, unless someone is very unlucky.

but, also, there is no perfect way to filter, you must either be liberal in the parameters and accept boosters getting through (current io), or be more restrictive and accept possible false negatives getting caught in the net, or somewhere in between. If you insist on filter the boosted players, some innocents will be collateral damage.

[Aliven]

If it wasn't for R.IO then people would just Armory you and either invite or decline you for the same fucking reasons people currently use the website/addon to determine. The problem isn't R.IO or "toxic elitists." Players want the highest likelihood of success in their group and checking to see what you've done already is the easiest way to do that. This is basic human psychology. And if you're looking to change that then please, go right ahead. I can't possibly think of a better place to call for broad social reform than a forum for a video game where we slay internet dragons for imaginary loot.

Well blizzard itself implemented that system - mythic+. There is a time limit which coresposnd with loot. So ofc people want to make it as fast as possible. Yes, it is basic human psychology but Blizz created it that way.

Oh and absolutely the problem are toxic elitists. Like they fuck everything they touch and leave foul smell. This is also basic human psychology. Problem is, in blizz design they are rewarded for being dipshits.

[erifwodahs]

yeah thats not gonna fly, and its definitely not "easily fixed"

fail/success ratio aint gonna work either, you are being punished by others in your party failing runs leaving etc

Agreed.
If fail/success ratio is being measured, imagine how much more strict pugging would become
And that anti-boost @kaldari mentioned is total bs. We are usually same 4 people all the time and just need to pug one or two, while on rare occasion we just join a pug if there is only 2 of us.

[Grax]

The problem is easily fixed. The will to fix it something else altogether.

The only solution to this problem is to trim all the different difficulty levels of content. The idea of "something for everyone" is great, but all that happens is that you end up segmenting the playerbase. Things like Raider.IO emerge to make defining and placing players in those segments easier, in order to facilitate progression for players in the upper segments. Raider.IO is the solution to the problem, not the cause of the problem itself.

Edit: Hat tip to Aliven, post #92. We're both saying the same thing. That post came in while I was typing mine.

[kaldari]

Agreed.
If fail/success ratio is being measured, imagine how much more strict pugging would become
And that anti-boost @kaldari mentioned is total bs. We are usually same 4 people all the time and just need to pug one or two, while on rare occasion we just join a pug if there is only 2 of us.

It would not be BS as the purpose of io is not to reflect your status as a player, but to assist the keyholder in finding a candidate. The keyholder may accept the risk of filtering good candidates, if he accepts waiting a longer time to increase %chance that the one he does accept, will be good.

It's essentially the "throw away brown envelopes" tactic of real life recruiters.

[xero5141]

thats not my experience, or rather yes eventually i got invited but it was literally hours, even this weekend i had to sit on oribos for good hour before i got an invite
it was much much worse couple of weeks ago when i decided that i need to start doing m+ and i had like 100 IO and running my own key wasn't working either (it still doesn't, tried that yesterday, no applications for 30+min)

Well, it's important to remember that IO has a minimum threshold before it shows up to other people in the addon, unless you subscribe, I think. Like 350 maybe? So if you have 100io it just looks like you don't use io.

[Finear]

Well, it's important to remember that IO has a minimum threshold before it shows up to other people in the addon, unless you subscribe, I think. Like 350 maybe? So if you have 100io it just looks like you don't use io.

Oh OK I wasn't aware of that, threshold is 200 tho so I passed that fairly "quickly" and I still wasn't able to run my own keys

[xero5141]

Oh OK I wasn't aware of that, threshold is 200 tho so I passed that fairly "quickly" and I still wasn't able to run my own keys

Honestly, that isn't my experience. Obviously I can't say why it would be for you. For instance, if I go on my balance druid right now and post my +12 Spires of Ascension with only me in the group I imagine I'd have 30+ dps signed up within minutes. Healers usually aren't too bad, tanks can take some work but they always come around too.

[Finear]

Since everyone faces that same problem it would average out among everyone, unless someone is very unlucky.

It would avarage over 100+ runs (realistically a lot more but most people run 4 per week)
And you only need to get unlucky couple of times initially to be fucked forever, especially as you are one out of five and you have zero control over there four people

This causes more problems while solving pretty much nothing, sorry its just bad idea

[Otimus]

Alternatively, I could just play a more fun game where social vetting isn't a process of "enjoying" it.

This is why people quit MMORPGs and the genre is basically dead outside of things with huge names/legacies, or things loaded with cash shops. No one wants to deal with this kind of shit to just play a stupid game.

(Personally, I'd say if systems like this are needed for something to be a fun and enjoyable experience, then someone, mostly Blizzard, failed along the way. Either in designing the system it already uses, or in failing to teach it's players how to use the basic mechanics of the game, yet allowing them to progress to a point where it's within their wheelhouse to do it.)

[Alexplode]

Before complaining on the forums make your own groups then invite the first person that signs up, the one with no IO and 210 ilvl that he bought, then see how much fun it is to have your time wasted by rando's who just want to be carried

Thing is they know this and would rather complain instead, sick of going on the Official forums everyday and seeing these IO whines (id post this there but i was banned for 3 days)

The first thing i did and other good players did was start from scratch and build up your IO using your own key, these bottom feeders instead would rather just whine untill blizzard bans every addon that seperates good from bad players, no good player wants anything to do with them and they know it

Serious question: How can i increase my Raid.IO where is my starting point?

i know im a very good player but what if my numbers dont back me up because im just starting to raid again. I can say for myself that i am a very Methodical skilled player in my class/mainspecc and i will squeeze every ounce of that rock's blood to perform an optimal rotation and study every mechanic on boss encounter...

what is my position here? how can i get geared fast without going to normies or LFG? is this like not getting hired because no experience and no exp because no one will hired me thing?

can i get invited to an Heroic or even mythic pug if i have a decent rating in normal? how does it work?

this is all assuming my guild sucks and we are there just because we are long time friends.

b01

[schwank05]

Before complaining on the forums make your own groups then invite the first person that signs up, the one with no IO and 210 ilvl that he bought, then see how much fun it is to have your time wasted by rando's who just want to be carried

Thing is they know this and would rather complain instead, sick of going on the Official forums everyday and seeing these IO whines (id post this there but i was banned for 3 days)

The first thing i did and other good players did was start from scratch and build up your IO using your own key, these bottom feeders instead would rather just whine untill blizzard bans every addon that seperates good from bad players, no good player wants anything to do with them and they know it

I mean this is what I do, because I don't know what Raider IO is and how to look at it I just find the highest ilvl and invite them.

- - - Updated - - -

Serious question: How can i increase my Raid.IO where is my starting point?

i know im a very good player but what if my numbers dont back me up because im just starting to raid again. I can say for myself that i am a very Methodical skilled player in my class/mainspecc and i will squeeze every ounce of that rock's blood to perform an optimal rotation and study every mechanic on boss encounter...

what is my position here? how can i get geared fast without going to normies or LFG? is this like not getting hired because no experience and no exp because no one will hired me thing?

can i get invited to an Heroic or even mythic pug if i have a decent rating in normal? how does it work?

this is all assuming my guild sucks and we are there just because we are long time friends.

b01

Best/ Easiest/ Fastest way to gear is to do PVP and get the 197 ilvl covenant gear took me 2 weeks to be 200 ilvl on my H pally doing Covenant catchup and PVP. From that point on you can easily get into M+ groups or N/HC raids with ease.

[Aydinx2]

i know im a very good player but what if my numbers dont back me up because im just starting to raid again. I can say for myself that i am a very Methodical skilled player in my class/mainspecc and i will squeeze every ounce of that rock's blood to perform an optimal rotation and study every mechanic on boss encounter...

what is my position here? how can i get geared fast without going to normies or LFG? is this like not getting hired because no experience and no exp because no one will hired me thing?1

No, because at the start of the expansion everyone started at the same point, and even now you can still easily get in groups because people are running keys from all levels.

And don't call other people normies when you're one yourself. Being good is more than just being able to do your rotation perfectly. It is worthless if you don't actually have the gear or only play once a week for the vault slot.

Raider.IO is seperate from gear level, so that has nothing to do with it.
Get gear (shouldn't be too hard if you're as good as you say you are) and then start doing M+ keys, the highest you can join (with a bad Raider.IO I'd start at 5).

[Kolvarg]

There is monumental difference between "wasting time" and "passing time".
Entertainment is not designed to 'waste' time, it is there for people to be entertained.

Sure, except whether it is "wasting" or "passing" is incredibly arbitrary and subjective. For some people playing any game at all is wasting time.

Whether you are "wasting" or "passing" time in M+, or any other piece of entertainment, is in big part up to you. And you thinking anything is a waste of time might just be a result of you not liking it, rather than an inherent problem with it.

And that's my core thought: if you need these specific details to be met to not consider it a waste of time, maybe it's just not for you in the first place.

If you play football in like a state cup or country cup or some school tournament or whatever

And if you were playing in Mythic+ state cup or country cup then you'd have a point. But for many people WoW (and as consequence, M+) is miles away from that. If it's comparable to football at all, many people would be just kicking a ball with friends in their backyard.

M+ in itself is a challenge oriented activity. The sole reason for ANYONE to even join a group is to tackle the timer.

Well, to some extent, but not really. To follow your football example, one could argue any sport is a "challenge oriented activity", or that any sport is "competitive by default", when in reality, for many of the people who casually engage with it, it's not really.

And maybe I'd even agree that the system was originally aimed solely as an activity for a niche that enjoys challenge, after all it does spawn as an evolution of challenge mode, but ultimately the system has evolved since then to be less that, and more an alternate/complimentary PvE progression path.

You are just describin what M+ is for you. While the system is not perfect, there is nothing about its core and what it wants to offer that goes inherently against a more casual/less serious approach.

Now obviously I wouldn't be willing to wipe 2 hours on a +10 anymore. I improved, everyone I play with did.
The problem is always the people who think they are owed a run or an apology for not focusing on the task they willing signed up for.

Great, and I'd recommend you keep playing with the same people that you already know take the game as seriously as you do. Do that instead of joining randoms, or do a better job of making sure new people you join have the same expectations and desires as you. Assuming everyone else should take the game exactly as you do yourself will only lead to a worse experience for everyone.

[Darkeon]

The addon itself basically only let's you know one's progression and experience (with a quick dash of actual expertise there too, from personal experience) with a quick and straight forward visual cue.

The problem a lot of people are complaining about goes much more deeper than any addon or tool and it's entirely community and mentality based.

[gaymer77]

Of course ratings are never a perfect indicator on how someone's good, but it's still 1000 times likelier that someone with proven experience is going to do better than someone with no experience.

No all it does is prove you were part of a group using a certain spec that happened to kill the last boss within the time limit or not. It doesn't do anything other than that. It has no weight on if you held your own or not. It shows nothing about your own performance. It just simply tells someone that you completed such & such mythic at such and such key and your time was X amount. The first week my priest hit 60 I bought a gold run of a +15 and can tell you I did not pull my own weight at all as I was severely undergeared. That +15 is still on my io because that is the highest key I have for that dungeon. It inflated my io.

[Echocho]

battlegroup? wtf is a battlegroup?

ok... i checked that up... this has nothing to do with dungeons at all... wtf...

It's also a something that hasn't existed in the game for over 10 years.

[BraveNewWorld]

Tbf the thing that I dislike the most about raider.io is how score is given out.

I have cleared everything including and up to M+10-11 on my main. I got the Proud title by honestly running all needed keys. It may not be impressive, but I learned every single tactic and the most optimal routes around.

I hover around 210 ilvl and I cannot get invited to a +12 because I haven't ran 10-11 a thousand times or some shit? Catching up is not equal to running the same thing over and over with no hope for reward, since I have 2-3 slots that could get a benefit of a whopping 3 ilvl from a +10.

I know my way around, I pull my weight, I am comfortable with the affixes, but my progress is slowed down because an external site has decided that I have to run +10 ad nauseam in order to catch up. That is just stupid.

Run your own key and push it. Solved.

The "website" didn't decide anything. They just show what you've run, that's it. Just run your own key and +up it to 14-15 and stop crying.

[Sparklelord]

I remember when ilvl was gearscore and was the big to do. Look at us now. Amazing. I love you.

[BraveNewWorld]

So many players buys boosts these days that the value of any given Rio score is skewed.

If I'm pugging my +19 key, I won't only consider the rio score, I'll also go check on the raider.io website / wowarmory to see the number of keys they've run and with who. It's easy to spot who got boosted.

It might take 30 minutes to form a group, but I'm putting the odds on my favor so we can time the key. We might deplete it, but it won't be because someone had no business in there, it'll be because of a mistake someone (or the entire group) made, it happens.

Obviously no one should do all that work for lower keys (11-12s), checking score is perfectly fine and even if you have to carry a little bit you'll time the dungeon.