[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Ophenia]

It is a space game so your not really supposed to see players all the time anyway, but there wont be a 50 player limit and everyone will be on the same universe, there will most likely be some limit on how many players/ships can be in the same area but that will be what the server can handle.

You do know that a WoW server is more than just one server right, you understand what the server in SC actually does atm and its more than an average server usually would have to do, its kinda pointless moaning about something that will be changing in SC so each system will have multiple servers spreading out the loads.

Why are you talking about WoW all the time, there are always people you can see and engage with at any time in WoW actually, stop comparing pineapples to lamborghinis ffs. Of course no one expects to see players "any time" when wandering in space, but with a cap at 50 you won't even see anyone in a city.

Then, WoW's sharding works approximately fine when people you see around you are not necessarily engaged with you. What you're saying here is that with the miraculous Server Meshing (which can as well never exist), "there will most likely be some limit on how many players/ships can be in the same area but that will be what the server can handle", which means the guy you're playing with/against may disappear at any point because the server can't handle it anymore ? That sounds great.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

CU - Still making slow progress. The game never ballooned out of control with stretch goals, and sought private investment to help them meet their funding needs.

Camelot Unchained died last year. The game barely made any progress over 5 years, and then in 2020 the devs announced that they hadn't even been working on CU, but instead had been using the kickstarter money to work on ANOTHER GAME.

[1001]

You realise there's people who've spent thousands in Elite and many other games right...

A ship made for a game is not "done". It's updated and iterated like everything else during development.

There's a reason why SC already has 100+ ships available all already with modelled interiors while in Elite only has 40 and they remain empty shells.

Same reason why SC already has fleshed out planets with atmospheres and environmental effects and Elite only has barren variations of barren brown and grey moons.

Oh come on, pack it in with the whataboutisms...

IF there are people that have spent thousands in Elite the proportion of them is incomparable to the proportion that have spent thousands or tens of thousands in Star Citizen.
CIG's major focus on ships is because they sell. That is all there is to it. And those ships are still nothing but a pretty asset to walk around in, there is little to no gameplay or mechanics implemented, cartography, engineering, salavging etc. All you have right now is pilot and turret and you have the exact same in Elite....

[Henako]

No other companies would even try it they are too scared to do it

Right. So, no facts, then. No proof. I don't know what I expected.

I never said it was a proper MMO atm, but you could say the same about WoW since pretty much most of the time you wont see more than 50 players around you anyway unless your afk in a capital.

You have got to stop saying things like this. I just can't wrap my head around how you actually believe this. You know you're just spitting nonsense. I could log in on my medium pop server right now, run to the world boss, and get smacked by 70 Alliance players for the trouble.

I could queue and be in a battleground with 39 other players in two minutes. I have to wade through more than 50 players to get into the raid three times a week.

You're just a big ol' bag of bad faith arguments held together by sunk cost and feelings.

Have you played it? Because a lot of gamers actively do, recurrently. In fact the game has been having not only record years in funding but in player activity and engagement.

Seems like you're the ones having a hard time dealing with these simple facts.

Once again, this has little to nothing to do with what I actually asked about. The game doesn't work, Anderson. It has a 50 (maybe even 30, now) player cap, and that shows no signs of changing. If that doesn't change, this game will never work.

[Elim Garak]

Quora is a Q&A platform where the most accurate answers end up being voted UP.

As someone who is very active on Quora, I can expertly say that it is as far from the truth as is physically possible. The accurateness of the answer is the least important factor in the accumulation of upvotes. Which is to be expected. It's the same people on Quora as everywhere else on the internet - or Earth, for that matter. I've seen posts of complete non-sense getting 10k upvotes because they pander to the specific demographic or promoted or have nice pics.

[deenman]

As someone who is very active on Quora, I can expertly say that it is as far from the truth as is physically possible. The accurateness of the answer is the least important factor in the accumulation of upvotes. Which is to be expected. It's the same people on Quora as everywhere else on the internet - or Earth, for that matter. I've seen posts of complete non-sense getting 10k upvotes because they pander to the specific demographic or promoted or have nice pics.

appeal to popularity fallacy at its finest lol,its a true miracle the earth isnt flat

[MrAnderson]

Why do you respond to me if I don't play the game? What I say has no bearing on whether you play it or not. Of course the moment someone says something you don't like you attack the poster, not the statement I said. You cannot argue about the server cap being 50 and WoW being thousands. It is just a fact that those are the caps.

As far as 'seeing' other people in SC, oh boy seeing up to 50 people when the game is based around ship combat where ships can have large crews. Woo. You sold me. I can't wait to get into a ship battle with like 10-15 ships with each ship being piloted by 10-15 people at a time. That will be fun. But guess what, it does not exist. It can't exist until the server lets more than 50 people on it without melting down. Considering how they are removing content and this server meshing is not in you hope to not see other people so you guys don't lag out. Fun.

Why wouldn't I respond to you? You're posting on a public forum remember, even if someone thinks your opinion has no value they still might feel worthwhile engaging if only to try to understand where it comes from, in this case where does all that animosity to Star Citizen comes from? What's the catch? You gonna keep dodging the question? Asking that is not attacking you in any way.

Arguing about the player cap or any feature that is not set in stone in a game development is pointless if you're not willing or able to process the fact that game development is an iterative process. No company starting from scratch starts with 4k player server capacity and then builds the game on top, that's not how it works. It starts small and iterates from there, increasing the cap as it goes. Which is what Blizzard did and any other company who's makes a MMO does, CIG is no exception, you've been told that multiple times but choose to ignore it.

If 5 man instances are fun in WoW and 40 people Raids are fun why wouldn't 5, 10, 25, 50 player space battles?



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Yup also has a track record of missing deadlines by years, kicking the can down the road, failing to deliver on promises, plenty of jaded backers who have not gotten what they paid for. As far as a 'lot of backers' and 'updated regularly'. What do you mean? Another ship for people to buy? It sure isn't tech to let more people into this MMO. Numbers of people playing the game sure don't seem that great considering the money involved in this game. As far as space games sure it is the king of a small hill, when it comes to MMO? Not even fucking close.

Yeap like every other big game production. It's impossible to please everyone but usually not everyone holds grudges about products they don't consume or say they don't, not for so long that is. A product doesn't need to be the best for everyone to succeed, it just needs to be the best to the ones that matter. You're clearly not in that bracket, but it's still interesting watching you act like one.

As someone who is very active on Quora, I can expertly say that it is as far from the truth as is physically possible. The accurateness of the answer is the least important factor in the accumulation of upvotes. Which is to be expected. It's the same people on Quora as everywhere else on the internet - or Earth, for that matter. I've seen posts of complete non-sense getting 10k upvotes because they pander to the specific demographic or promoted or have nice pics.

In the context of game development, which is what's being discussed, they match perfectly with real life reports though: https://www.kotaku.com.au/2020/01/wh...ayed-so-often/

Oh come on, pack it in with the whataboutisms...

IF there are people that have spent thousands in Elite the proportion of them is incomparable to the proportion that have spent thousands or tens of thousands in Star Citizen.
CIG's major focus on ships is because they sell. That is all there is to it. And those ships are still nothing but a pretty asset to walk around in, there is little to no gameplay or mechanics implemented, cartography, engineering, salavging etc. All you have right now is pilot and turret and you have the exact same in Elite....

There's plenty of people who spend thousands in Elite just like they spend in WoW on many other games, if people feel it's worth it they will choose to spend their money on it and is up to them to do just that. A space game having a lot of space ships and variety in design is a bad thing now, who would have though!
We have a pilot and turret's yes! For combat they are nice, But most importantly we have ship interiors and space legs to use them, vehicles to transport cargo and mine, ah and a tractor beam which helps salvaging wrecks of their goods.

Once again, this has little to nothing to do with what I actually asked about. The game doesn't work, Anderson. It has a 50 (maybe even 30, now) player cap, and that shows no signs of changing. If that doesn't change, this game will never work.

What did you asked about anyway? What do you mean with "doesn't work"? You can't launch the game is that it? Because obviously thousands of other players can or else gamers wouldn't be able to make videos playing it and getting million and a half views ...

[1001]

There's plenty of people who spend thousands in Elite just like they spend in WoW on many other games, if people feel it's worth it they will choose to spend their money on it and is up to them to do just that.

There would be a few no doubt, but plenty? I'm not so sure. And that does not compare in any way to what people are spending on Star Citizen or the number of spenders.

A space game having a lot of space ships and variety in design is a bad thing now, who would have though!

Is anyone saying that or are you just trying to build some silly strawman?

We have a pilot and turret's yes! For combat they are nice, But most importantly we have ship interiors and space legs to use them, vehicles to transport cargo and mine, ah and a tractor beam which helps salvaging wrecks of their goods.

I do feel that the interior thing/space legs is held up by some simply because that is 1 thing they have that other games don't have right now, even if it means they are missing pretty much everything else.
I am sure most people would prefer fleshed out professions, mechanics and gameplay etc

[Henako]

What did you asked about anyway? What do you mean with "doesn't work"? You can't launch the game is that it? Because obviously thousands of other players can or else gamers wouldn't be able to make videos playing it and getting million and a half views ...

I said in the post what I meant, but you don't seem capable of making an argument in good faith. We both know you understand what I'm saying. I'll spell it out anyway.

If this game wasn't promising to be something greater than it is, nobody would care about it. Specifically, if it wasn't promising to be something that it shows no signs of ever becoming. The entire game hinges upon server meshing, a technology that shows no signs of life. Ten years slogging through development and what do you actually have? Honestly? A bugged out sandbox with a handful of grindy activities that holds (maybe) 50 players. And it will never, ever be more than that until server meshing becomes a reality. They've already cut content multiple times to keep the wheels from falling off.

The game doesn't work. If it wasn't promising to become something that it shows no signs of ever actually becoming, it would be vaporware.

That's obviously an opinion, but man, if there aren't enough Indy-as-fuck bugged out, unpolished, messy sandbox survival whatevers of every variety that just fade into obscurity. That's all this game is right now. That's all it will ever be until the magi-tech of server meshing becomes a reality.

[MrAnderson]

There would be a few no doubt, but plenty? I'm not so sure. And that does not compare in any way to what people are spending on Star Citizen or the number of spenders.

Few and Plenty are subjective terms and all but irrelevant. Again, some people will spend money on whatever they feel worthy. A new skin, a new mount, a second account and so on. In contrast others will spend the bare minimum or nothing at all if they can.

Is anyone saying that or are you just trying to build some silly strawman?

You say they only focus on ships because they sell, I'd say because they are making a space game and having a lot of space ships is part of having a better space game.

I do feel that the interior thing/space legs is held up by some simply because that is 1 thing they have that other games don't have right now, even if it means they are missing pretty much everything else.
I am sure most people would prefer fleshed out professions, mechanics and gameplay etc

Interior/space legs is available in many other games and it's enjoyed by many other players. Most gamers like the have options when playing. Being an avatar that pilots a ship is different than being a ship and opens up more gameplay options.

The fact that you're an avatar and that ships have interiors also opens up more gameplay options. See the Mining Activity. You can mine asteroids in space or on land using ships, ground vehicles and on foot using the hand mining tool. A multi-player crew can have one piloting a ship and scan the rocks while the other will drives the ground vehicle out of the ship to mine and another goes hand mining. The pilot then picks them up and takes them to an outpost to sell the mining goods.



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...That's obviously an opinion...

That resumes to saying that because a game in development is still not fully developed it "doesn't work".

Are you somewhat new to crowdfunded game companies that showcase their development along the way as a way to fund their projects?
You can't snap your fingers and have a massive MMO. There's no magic, just a lot of hard work and ingenuity by brilliant dev's who enjoy these games like we do.

You're having a hard time accepting the fact that people can get hyped and enjoy games while they are still being developed. That's a You problem rather than the companies making games. Don't sweat it, enjoying game development doesn't have to be for you, focus on the things you enjoy.

[Henako]

That resumes to saying that because a game in development is still not fully developed it "doesn't work".

Are you somewhat new to crowdfunded game companies that showcase their development along the way as a way to fund their projects?
You can't snap your fingers and have a massive MMO. There's no magic, just a lot of hard work and ingenuity by brilliant dev's who enjoy these games like we do.

You're having a hard time accepting the fact that people can get hyped and enjoy games while they are still being developed. That's a You problem rather than the companies making games. Don't sweat it, enjoying game development doesn't have to be for you, focus on the things you enjoy.

It's been ten years. This game is no closer to being an actual, full product. It never will be until their magic server-meshing comes to fruition, which it shows no signs of ever doing. You can tell because they don't talk about it.

Well done, though. Once again, you managed to both ignore the main point of my argument and talk down your nose at me at the same time. It's honestly really impressive. Instead of actually engaging in a discussion, you just fabricate an argument, apply it to whomever you're arguing with, and condescend about how foolish it is.

There are 500 pages of this, though. I don't know why I expected any different.

[1001]

Few and Plenty are subjective terms and all but irrelevant. Again, some people will spend money on whatever they feel worthy. A new skin, a new mount, a second account and so on. In contrast others will spend the bare minimum or nothing at all if they can.

All of this is a long way from your original comment which was trying to normalise the amount that people spend in Star Citizen.
Buying a $3 paint job, a $20 mount or $10 second account is nothing like buying ships for hundreds of dollars or even thousands of dollars.

You say they only focus on ships because they sell, I'd say because they are making a space game and having a lot of space ships is part of having a better space game.

Yeah I don't believe you at all about this. You are fully aware it's absolutely about sales first and foremost. I mean they come up with new game ideas specifically to sell new ships.

Interior/space legs is available in many other games and it's enjoyed by many other players. Most gamers like the have options when playing. Being an avatar that pilots a ship is different than being a ship and opens up more gameplay options.

None of this changes the original point though. Yes, you have walking in ships but it isn't anything much more than 2 basic roles as of right now. It is a shame they don't focus on this and really flesh out what you can do if it's something people enjoy so much.

[MrAnderson]

It's been ten years. This game is no closer to being an actual, full product. It never will be until their magic server-meshing comes to fruition, which it shows no signs of ever doing. You can tell because they don't talk about it.

Well done, though. Once again, you managed to both ignore the main point of my argument and talk down your nose at me at the same time. It's honestly really impressive. Instead of actually engaging in a discussion, you just fabricate an argument, apply it to whomever you're arguing with, and condescend about how foolish it is.

There are 500 pages of this, though. I don't know why I expected any different.

Technology often take a lot of years to develop yes it's part of game development. The game has been standing on it's own as product since it's been available to play by it's users. The server meshing technology is like every other technology that needed/needs to be develop to achieve the game they want. It has been explained in detail to backers several times, server meshing is no exception. Just because you're out of the loop doesn't mean it doesn't exist.



There was once a time where Star Citizen consisted in only a Hangar to walk around (end of 2013). You couldn't fly ships just walk around in a small hangar.
Then they added Arena Commander, flying ships in a small game area (Mid 2014). I think at first it only 6 players and later they expanded to 8. Only 3 ships to fly. There was no walking on ships either, just small fighter ships. Then they added the Online Persistent Universe (end of 2015) where your avatar had some space stations one planet and 3 moons to look at (no landing) along with walking on ships and FPS mission and combat. They keep expanding that Persistent Universe adding more features, functionality while they develop the games. There's now planets and moons to land, more ships, more professions etc. Every single year the game makes great improvements and additions becoming more and more fleshed out and playable as it shows by the constant increased of player engagement along with funding.

Not only people are playing that and enjoying it while it's being developed but they are having fun doing it. Like every other crowdfunded game in development or a early access game there's obstacles along the way but that doesn't nullify the work done and ongoing. That you refuse to acknowledge it is more a testament to your own inability to appreciate the journey and only caring about the end game.

[Serpha]

I've seen better space fights in Battlestar Galactica Online.

[MrAnderson]

All of this is a long way from your original comment which was trying to normalise the amount that people spend in Star Citizen.
Buying a $3 paint job, a $20 mount or $10 second account is nothing like buying ships for hundreds of dollars or even thousands of dollars.

It all comes down to the premise that people will spend money in the things they feel worthy. Nothing one can do about it.

Some gamers pay thousands of dollars per year in subscription costs to play the games they like. Some pay thousands in cosmetics and mounts, maybe they even multibox and spend thousands of dollars more. Of they get tired of grinding and buy gold or even a maxed out account from the black market. Or they pay to unlock some special abilities or whatever.

Yeah I don't believe you at all about this. You are fully aware it's absolutely about sales first and foremost. I mean they come up with new game ideas specifically to sell new ships.

None of this changes the original point though. Yes, you have walking in ships but it isn't anything much more than 2 basic roles as of right now. It is a shame they don't focus on this and really flesh out what you can do if it's something people enjoy so much.

Having more ships and more variety in design > Less ships and less options.

Being able to walk is not about roles, it's about freedom of play, immersion and the dynamics that come with it. Ship boarding, cargo/salvaging hauling, vehicle transportation are only possible and make sense because the game was designed with the player being an avatar that can experience the universe as it pleases.

[1001]

It all comes down to the premise that people will spend money in the things they feel worthy. Nothing one can do about it.

Some gamers pay thousands of dollars per year in subscription costs to play the games they like. Some pay thousands in cosmetics and mounts, maybe they even multibox and spend thousands of dollars more. Of they get tired of grinding and buy gold or even a maxed out account from the black market. Or they pay to unlock some special abilities or whatever.

Sure but what does any of this have to do anything?
You started this ball rolling by claiming there were Elite backers who had spent thousands as a retort to someone bringing up $27,000 ship packages. And now those strawmen and false equivalancies have gone nowhere it's back to this fake normalising.

Having more ships and more variety in design > Less ships and less options.

Less ships that can be modified for any task > than more ships restricted to 1 task > less ships and less options

Being able to walk is not about roles, it's about freedom of play, immersion and the dynamics that come with it. Ship boarding, cargo/salvaging hauling, vehicle transportation are only possible and make sense because the game was designed with the player being an avatar that can experience the universe as it pleases.

I was talking about walking in ships because you kept bringing up interiors, now it's about something else entirely...

[Kyanion]

If 5 man instances are fun in WoW and 40 people Raids are fun why wouldn't 5, 10, 25, 50 player space battles?

Because Wow isn't selling ships that need to be crewed by half the server?

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A product doesn't need to be the best for everyone to succeed, it just needs to be the best to the ones that matter. You're clearly not in that bracket, but it's still interesting watching you act like one.

Translation: I don't like what you said so I better drop some insults to deflect.

[MrAnderson]

Sure but what does any of this have to do anything?
You started this ball rolling by claiming there were Elite backers who had spent thousands as a retort to someone bringing up $27,000 ship packages. And now those strawmen and false equivalancies have gone nowhere it's back to this fake normalising.

People have been spending thousands of dollars on the things they like for a long time. Like it or not, Video-games are no exception. It's not a new concept and it will always exist.

Less ships that can be modified for any task > than more ships restricted to 1 task > less ships and less options

I prefer having specialized ships for specialized tasks like in the real world, I feel it's more realistic and brings variety to the gameplay sessions as you get to change ships and manufactures your experience changes drastically keeping things fresh. But hey it's each company's design decisions and if every game was alike then that would be a problem.

I was talking about walking in ships because you kept bringing up interiors, now it's about something else entirely...

It's always been about the freedom of playing as an avatar with little to no restrictions. Getting to walk around your ship or board other players ships is just one small part of it. It's pretty nice though.

Because Wow isn't selling ships that need to be crewed by half the server?

And what does that got to do with having fun with 5-10-15-30-40 player battles?

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Translation: I don't like what you said so I better drop some insults to deflect.

No insulting there just basic facts, no product is for everyone, if players don't like a specific game that doesn't mean that game has to change to cater to them. There's no shame in being irrelevant for a company.

[1001]

People have been spending thousands of dollars on the things they like for a long time. Like it or not, Video-games are no exception. It's not a new concept and it will always exist.

Again, this has nothing to do with your retort to $27000 ship packages being brought up.
I am sure that most people couldn't care less what people spend their money on, even if they scoff at it, what irks people are businesses taking it way too far. Like CIG.

I prefer having specialized ships for specialized tasks like in the real world, I feel it's more realistic and brings variety to the gameplay sessions as you get to change ships and manufactures your experience changes drastically keeping things fresh. But hey it's each company's design decisions and if every game was alike then that would be a problem.

Great. But none of this changes the fact that CIG produce new ships solely for income as opposed to making hulls modifiable.

It's always been about the freedom of playing as an avatar with little to no restrictions. Getting to walk around your ship or board other players ships is just one small part of it. It's pretty nice though.

Great. But it doesn't alter the fact that there is very little to do inside these lovely interiors despite CIG promising amazingly deep gameplay for multi crewed ships.

[MrAnderson]

Again, this has nothing to do with your retort to $27000 ship packages being brought up.
I am sure that most people couldn't care less what people spend their money on, even if they scoff at it, what irks people are businesses taking it way too far. Like CIG.

And again what you think is "CIG business taking it way too far" is just that, your opinion. What relevancy does it have? None. The facts is that every game will have players spending a lot and players spending less.

Great. But none of this changes the fact that CIG produce new ships solely for income as opposed to making hulls modifiable.

And again, what you think "that CIG produce new ships solely for income" is just that, your opinion. What relevancy does it have in the broader scope? None.

Fact is that having more spaceships and more variety is better than having less. There's a reason why new expansions often include new classes, mounts, cars etc

Great. But it doesn't alter the fact that there is very little to do inside these lovely interiors despite CIG promising amazingly deep gameplay for multi crewed ships.

And again, Opinion. Fact is that it's better to be have the option of being able to walk out of your seat and walk in ships modelled with interiors than being forever alone stuck on the pilot seat.