Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Forogil]

No, if I had meant that I would have typed that.

You quoted tweets from Sky News not from Oxford University; in case you are can't tell them apart.

As far I could see the word "STOP" does not even appear in the paper, so the idea that it stops transmission is from Sky News, not Oxford.

And remember:
These findings are preliminary and have not been peer-reviewed.
The findings should not be used for clinical or public health decision making.

The reason I (in contrast to the unreliable tweets) added them is that Lancelet states that the finding shall not be presented to laypersons without that warning highlighted.
I'm sure Oxford University agrees with that - even if Sky News don't seem to care.

[Pann]

You quoted tweets from Sky News not from Oxford University; in case you are can't tell them apart.

As far I could see the word "STOP" does not even appear in the paper, so the idea that it stops transmission is from Sky News, not Oxford.

And remember:
These findings are preliminary and have not been peer-reviewed.
The findings should not be used for clinical or public health decision making.

The reason I (in contrast to the unreliable tweets) added them is that Lancelet states that the finding shall not be presented to laypersons without that warning highlighted.

Ooh more selective quoting! No further comment on you supposedly knowing more than Oxford University?

Yes, I did and I'm not sure why you feel the need to mention this as I am perfectly capable of telling them apart. Was I supposed to wait for a peer review of the source paper before posting?

No! It didn't!? STOP THE PRESS! The word "stop" does not appear in the paper - I can't believe it! - it must all be bullshit then! How could they be so brazen! It's a good job we have an army of internet experts, like yourself, to keep them honest! I mean you've got almost 900 posts in the CV thread on an obscure forum, dedicated to World of Warcraft, how can the knowledge and experience at Oxford Uni possibly compare?!?

But really journalist gets a little carried away with good news on twitter. It's a travesty! And I think you'll find that he did quote the relevant headline from the Oxford press release.

This is potentially great news for everyone... now I wonder why you are trying (very badly) to discredit it...

[PACOX]

Great news!

https://www.reuters.com/article/heal...-idUSKBN2A21UG

Interesting.

That was one of the first vaccines developed. No one trusted it because Russia. Still don't many are going to be jumping in line for it.

[Krakan]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-bid...on-11610794800

Paying attention helps!



There was no federal mandate for masks during travel or on federal properties. They were not being implemented, because the guy who could have implemented them was too busy being maskless at every opportunity.

Here's a press release about the Trump administrations failure to implement masks requirements for inter-state travel - https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301148243.html



https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-conten...eparedness.pdf

Plus the stimulus bill he's trying to get through Congress that will go a long way in helping this, including much needed state and local funding for their vaccine rollout programs, something Republicans are still pushing back against.



Come off it. Y'all didn't care as 400k Americans died due to Trump's inaction and misinformation. You can't act all morally outraged that the consequences of his inaction continue beyond his presidency, and the virulent anti-mask/covid-denial movement that he stoked remains.

You've made your bed. Enjoy the hundreds of thousands of dead Americans occupying it with you.

I mean inaction exists across both. It's just the new yearly flu. There was a chance to hold china and their " wet market" accountable but that's passed. It's time to just move on.

[Edge-]

It's just the new yearly flu.

Citation from anyone with a medical degree needed. Otherwerise you're still shilling bad information.

There was a chance to hold china and their " wet market" accountable but that's passed.

It still hasn't been sourced to wet markets yet, actually. This kind of xenophobic nonsense is old at this point.

[Krakan]

Citation from anyone with a medical degree needed. Otherwerise you're still shilling bad information.



It still hasn't been sourced to wet markets yet, actually. This kind of xenophobic nonsense is old at this point.

Kind of the point I was making.

[Edge-]

Kind of the point I was making.

You said it passed. There never was, actually.

And if we're to take your position, since the origin hasn't been identified, technically it hasn't even passed.

[Krakan]

You said it passed. There never was, actually.

And if we're to take your position, since the origin hasn't been identified, technically it hasn't even passed.

I think we might be talking about different things... I mean the moment to make a truely impactful difference has passed as well as investigating China's utterly bizzare actions to the early day of covid. For them to react so extremely with such limited time shows either they had knowledge about it before hand or they openly lied about the situation causing massive amounts of harm.

A message should be sent that if you fuck with the entire world consequences will follow. Instead we just bought back our medical supplies from them.

[Edge-]

For them to react so extremely with such limited time shows either they had knowledge about it before hand or they openly lied about the situation causing massive amounts of harm.

Authoritarian governments acts in authoritarian manner doesn't really raise a ton of red flags, mein duden. And for what it's worth, they were FAR more open and transparent compared to the SARS outbreak and previous other outbreaks.

Either way, there were extensive early warnings from China, the WHO, and countries intelligence communities, including and specifically the US. That the countries decided not to act on it is for them to resolve, not a problem with China.

A message should be sent that if you fuck with the entire world consequences will follow.

Dude, pandemics are going to happen. This precise scenario has been warned about for decades. I get it, you wanna find a bad guy and punish them to feel good. The problem is that doesn't actually do/accomplish anything and it rejects the reality that we will face more of these and the international community needs to get their shit together and figure out how to respond to them so they're not as debilitating in the longterm as covid has been.,

Instead we just bought back our medical supplies from them.

...and? I mean, I'm all for having more domestic production of critical protective gear etc., but like...should the Chinese people writ-large be punished for this? Will you not be happy until some poor Chinese factory worker suffers even more?

[Krakan]

Authoritarian governments acts in authoritarian manner doesn't really raise a ton of red flags, mein duden. And for what it's worth, they were FAR more open and transparent compared to the SARS outbreak and previous other outbreaks.

Either way, there were extensive early warnings from China, the WHO, and countries intelligence communities, including and specifically the US. That the countries decided not to act on it is for them to resolve, not a problem with China.



Dude, pandemics are going to happen. This precise scenario has been warned about for decades. I get it, you wanna find a bad guy and punish them to feel good. The problem is that doesn't actually do/accomplish anything and it rejects the reality that we will face more of these and the international community needs to get their shit together and figure out how to respond to them so they're not as debilitating in the longterm as covid has been.,



...and? I mean, I'm all for having more domestic production of critical protective gear etc., but like...should the Chinese people writ-large be punished for this? Will you not be happy until some poor Chinese factory worker suffers even more?

I don't really believe you grasp the importance of what occured... the entire world suffered because the country everyone openly mocks didn't want to look weak.

I am far less convinced of the innocence of " viruses happen," you don't freak out to the level they did when it was that early. Who didn't warn anyone they downplayed it for months until the cdc backed them into a corner.

[Machismo]

I don't really believe you grasp the importance of what occured... the entire world suffered because the country everyone openly mocks didn't want to look weak.

I am far less convinced of the innocence of " viruses happen," you don't freak out to the level they did when it was that early. Who didn't warn anyone they downplayed it for months until the cdc backed them into a corner.

You find hat evidence, yet... or is this another time when you spread shit all over the floor, then run away?

[Krakan]

You find hat evidence, yet... or is this another time when you spread shit all over the floor, then run away?

How silly of me. Everyone knows the second day you hear about a new disease you start welding people into their homes...


Does it feel weird to know you trust the Chinese government more then the average chinese citizen?

[Machismo]

How silly of me. Everyone knows the second day you hear about a new disease you start welding people into their homes...


Does it feel weird to know you trust the Chinese government more then the average chinese citizen?

Well, it looks like you are dangerously short on evidence... again.

I don't trust shit, least of all you. How many times have you been busted lying, and pushing baseless claims? I've lost count.

[Edge-]

I don't really believe you grasp the importance of what occured... the entire world suffered because the country everyone openly mocks didn't want to look weak.

Man, this is one of the worst takes I've seen in a while.

I am far less convinced of the innocence of " viruses happen," you don't freak out to the level they did when it was that early. Who didn't warn anyone they downplayed it for months until the cdc backed them into a corner.

Dude, the WHO, who were working with China, were warning before the CDC did. This is some fuckin fanfiction shit, yo.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, it looks like you are dangerously short on evidence... again.

It seems to be a unique feature of every one of his posts. Bold assertions without any evidence.

[Omega10]

How silly of me. Everyone knows the second day you hear about a new disease you start welding people into their homes...


Does it feel weird to know you trust the Chinese government more then the average chinese citizen?

China DID weld people into their homes, and they got passed the virus in a fairly short time.
The US did NOT weld people into their homes, and we are still having issues with it.

[Krakan]

China DID weld people into their homes, and they got passed the virus in a fairly short time.
The US did NOT weld people into their homes, and we are still having issues with it.

Yes according to china they did well... will want that confirmed by a independent country.

[Machismo]

Yes according to china they did well... will want that confirmed by a independent country.

We're still waiting on all your evidence.

[Forogil]

Ooh more selective quoting! No further comment on you supposedly knowing more than Oxford University?

You are projecting hard with "The selective quoting"

Yes, I did and I'm not sure why you feel the need to mention this as I am perfectly capable of telling them apart.

You falsely claimed that the quotes were from Oxford University not Sky News, so you are clearly incapable of telling them apart.

The paper and the press-release from Oxford University, https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-02...month-interval only state that the vaccine may reduce transmission of the disease.

That's not selling enough for Sky News and therefore they change that to "does stop transmission".
This is the constant problem with reporting of scientific news: caveats like "may" are dropped, "reduce" is changed to "stop", etc.

The scientists are not free from blame - there are two particular issues: inaccurate numbers are reported as true (the reports of various efficacy numbers is a clear example), and with large studies that don't go as planned they come up with ideas afterwards.

Such "post-hoc exploratory analyses" (as it is called in the paper) have a larger risk of producing inaccurate results than normal studies - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testin...ed_by_the_data

The researchers are obviously aware of that, and in particular the paper suggest that the earlier idea of small dose followed by normal dose was exactly such an incorrect conclusion.

But really journalist gets a little carried away with good news on twitter. It's a travesty! And I think you'll find that he did quote the relevant headline from the Oxford press release.

The Oxford press release does not contain the word "stop" either.
As for "protection not falling" it is from the press release, but not fully supported by the paper as I wrote.

It seems clear that you live in an alternate reality, so don't expect an answer to any reply.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes according to china they did well... will want that confirmed by a independent country.

You know that journalists have travelled to China?
You know that Chinese people have travelled outside of China during the last year?
You know that many persons in China have friends outside of China?

If China had not stopped the virus early on all of them would have noticed the spread in China.

- - - Updated - - -

Interesting.

That was one of the first vaccines developed. No one trusted it because Russia. Still don't many are going to be jumping in line for it.

One of the first 5-10 vaccines; the primary problem was that they began using it before phase 3 testing (China might have done the same with their vaccines).

[Pann]

You are projecting hard with "The selective quoting"


You falsely claimed that the quotes were from Oxford University not Sky News, so you are clearly incapable of telling them apart.

The paper and the press-release from Oxford University, https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-02...month-interval only state that the vaccine may reduce transmission of the disease.

That's not selling enough for Sky News and therefore they change that to "does stop transmission".
This is the constant problem with reporting of scientific news: caveats like "may" are dropped, "reduce" is changed to "stop", etc.

The scientists are not free from blame - there are two particular issues: inaccurate numbers are reported as true (the reports of various efficacy numbers is a clear example), and with large studies that don't go as planned they come up with ideas afterwards.

Such "post-hoc exploratory analyses" (as it is called in the paper) have a larger risk of producing inaccurate results than normal studies - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testin...ed_by_the_data

The researchers are obviously aware of that, and in particular the paper suggest that the earlier idea of small dose followed by normal dose was exactly such an incorrect conclusion.


The Oxford press release does not contain the word "stop" either.
As for "protection not falling" it is from the press release, but not fully supported by the paper as I wrote.

It seems clear that you live in an alternate reality, so don't expect an answer to any reply.

Uhm??? Okay???

I made no such claim. I quoted a twitter post from a Sky New journalist who was reporting on an OX/AZ report.

And? Is there a point to any of this? What are you trying to prove here? But seriously wouldn't it better if you directed your analysis at Oxford University rather than me? Oh, and don't forget to mention your expertise in the form of nearly 900 posts on the subject of CV19 so they take you proper serious!

[Forogil]

'Crucially, Oxford says the vaccine DOES stop transmission:

That's overstating it...

I'm sure you know better than the people at Oxford University.

You mean that I know more than dubious news organization on the british isles, since you quoted tweets by Scott Beasley from Skynews.

No, if I had meant that I would have typed that.

I made no such claim. I quoted a twitter post from a Sky New journalist who was reporting on an OX/AZ report.

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