Three reasons why WoW's community is toxic

[Echocho]

I dunno, i did some alt leveling using dungeons and i ran into so many douchebags that would literally EXPLODE in a rage fit if someone pulled an extra trash pack or did not follow the super mega optimal path...does that mean the community is toxic? Neah, most likely just that this sort of random content attracts douchebags.

It means that a big portion of the community is toxic. Try doing the, exact same type of content in FFXIV and you won't believe what you're experiencing. It's like night and day

[Dwimmerlaik]

Why yes, OP, this is indeed an MMO?

[crusadernero]

Self entitlement and a more egosentric focus among alot of players, driven by the neverending push for meta all all levels of wow has made it so. It sneaks into most part of the game at any difficulty. The players around you are a tool to give you more loot. If player X dont deliver, replace him with player Y. Keep doing this until you complete task.

One example is the SL normal dungeons that you do when leveling. Even there, where XP and experiencing the dungeon for the first time is the focus, you often enough see ppl doing skips of trash and intrical pathways to clear dungeon quickest. 95% of the time its done without uttering a word, no notice of how/where its going to happen. What also happens 95% of the time? Someone pulls a trashpack by accident and suddenly theres a parade of trash coming your way. Then everyone dies. Then everyone put blame on eachother and then people finally leave.

The MDI/M+ ways of doing dungeons are now a core part of doing dungeons, even those that gives great XP pr mob and you dont save alot of time anyway - cause most of the time it goes bad. The people(the tank most times) expect everyone to know everything from the get go, cant be bothered to explain. When it goes wrong, its the others fault for not watching guides on how to clear +15 mythic dungeon keys, when in fact we are doing a normal dungeon.

[vashe9]

Every competitive environment is toxic in 2021, it's not specific to wow. and we cant do anything about that

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It means that a big portion of the community is toxic. Try doing the, exact same type of content in FFXIV and you won't believe what you're experiencing. It's like night and day

lol try to do the savage raids and fail like... once You'll be kicked. There are few insults because Squenix has a really big ban hammer

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The problem in WoW isn't necessarily that there is a meta, and that some classes excel in it...

It's that people extend this all the way down to leveling dungeons, when you should never even have to deal with it till no lower than M+ and heroic raiding. When people in leveling dungeons below level 50 get subjected to this 'meta filtering' and then the whole 'speed speed speed' crap at that point, it's just asinine, imo. When you get to what I call the 'competitive' level of PvE, same as PvP, the meta becomes an issue...but it shouldn't even matter before that.

In several other MMOs, it's basically this way. Leveling and the first levels of 'endgame', people pretty much play as they try to best, and people don't get in their faces about it. Get much higher than that, they'll be pushed to get with the program or get pushed out. WoW players are pushing this WAY before that, in many cases.

Blizzard didn't cause this. The players, and their almighty 'guides' that they play by caused it.

Once again, it's not specific to gaming. There are "guides" to... almost anything on youtube. Even for dish washing

[Kaver]

Reason 1. the very design of the game itself reinforces toxicity by making some players more inherently valuable than others.

Explanation: the scarcity of tanks and healers relative to DPS Players, along with segregation among meta specs and bottom of barrel trash specs, is assigning intrinsic value to players who play the correct role / specialization as no group can get started without them. This leads to people who play roles and specs that are in demand developing massive egos and looking down on other players. Most evident among: people who play meta tank specs, meta healer specs and people who can fulfill essential roles e.g. target calling in RBGs.

Real life analogy: the LFG is just a a Tinder where people try to get matched for dungeons and raids instead of dates and unsurprisingly features all of Tinder's worst pitfalls. The roles that are in demand can afford to match with the top 10% of DPS while non-meta DPS specs rot at the bottom of the garbage bin, much like a particular real life group that shall not be named.

Reason 2. your main barrier to any kind of progress are other players rather than the content that you are progressing.

Explanation: in a single player game, your progress is entirely your own achievement. In WoW, you are fighting the other players as much as you are fighting the raid and dungeon bosses. More often than not, a lack of progress will be someone else's fault rather than your own. Coupled with the fact that WoW's main PvE and PvP game modes are exclusive, small-scale instances, this leads to extreme pickiness among PuGs and guilds since the only kind of player that is not being a barrier to your progress is the player that is playing all of the mechanics correctly while performing close to 100% of their theoretical output. A player can never be a "boon" to your group. They are either not a hindrance (~100% of potential output and correct performance of mechanics) or a hindrance.

Real life analogy: companies are extremely picky when it comes to hiring people because in the worst case, the job applicant will bring nothing of value while demanding the company's paycheck.

Reason 3. because of the toxicity that is fostered by reasons 1 and 2, a lot of people decide to cloister off in small communities of friends and not interact with WoW's larger community at all.

Explanation: the only way people will tolerate non-meta specs or suboptimal play is if they are bound by social dynamics. Being toxic to people who you are friends with in real life has repercussions. Being toxic to people you have known for a long time has emotional repercussions since your brain will be fighting to prevent you from alienating your social circle. A new player joining this game, at this stage of the game's lifecycle, often has no chance to form the social bonds required to be a part of a guild or a community of friends..

Real life analogy: people in real life have been cloistering off into small subgroups and subcultures since the dawn of time since humans are, for some reason, incapable of remaining civil in sufficiently large group settings.

Here's a design tip for Blizzard. Don't enforce intrinsic player value by making meta specs and essential roles (both Visions and Torghast are a step in the right direction). Don't make higher-end content a scarce commodity that people have to fight others to access (once again, Torghast is a step in the right direction while M+ keystones are not). Don't promote guilds and communities as a solution to the community eating itself alive outside of cloistered off groups. Step in and manage your community. Do something. anything. DON'T make the game mimic the worst part of real life that we all want to escape: dating and the job market.

I'm bordering on having a brain aneurysm after trying to get 9 modern WoW players to get along for 3 hours to push rating in RBGs today.

WoW is a social game and guilds are completely essential. The toxicity is WoW is created by people who treat the game as a single player game and sees other players as NPCs.

[T-34]

Every competitive environment is toxic in 2021, it's not specific to wow. and we cant do anything about that

Once again, it's not specific to gaming. There are "guides" to... almost anything on youtube. Even for dish washing

People are no more or nor less competitive today than they were 2000 years ago. The only difference today is that a loud minority, that refuses to do its best, expect normal people - that is competitive people - to include them in their activities. Or said in wow-speak: "To carry them".
And when this loud minority logically is rejected by the competitive people they, instead of bettering themselves, start crying about "toxicity".

One of the main differences in mentality between competitive people and those that refuse to to better themselves is that competitive people think that you aren't entitled to play/work/have fun etc. with other people, but that you must earn it by your actions, whereas those that refuse to better themselves think that they are entitled to play/work/have fun etc. with other people regardless of their actions.

[Kumorii]

can't say I encounter many toxic people... even in pugs and I pug most of my push keys...

[Wilfire]

People are no more or nor less competitive today than they were 2000 years ago. The only difference today is that a loud minority, that refuses to do its best, expect normal people - that is competitive people - to include them in their activities. Or said in wow-speak: "To carry them".
And when this loud minority logically is rejected by the competitive people they, instead of bettering themselves, start crying about "toxicity".

One of the main differences in mentality between competitive people and those that refuse to to better themselves is that competitive people think that you aren't entitled to play/work/have fun etc. with other people, but that you must earn it by your actions, whereas those that refuse to better themselves think that they are entitled to play/work/have fun etc. with other people regardless of their actions.

Has it ever occurred to you that games aren't meant to be competitive? Are you one of those people who also thinks that watching TV and reading books should be competitive?

[potis]

Has it ever occurred to you that games aren't meant to be competitive? Are you one of those people who also thinks that watching TV and reading books should be competitive?

Get off your high horse, everything is whatever the person wants it to be, if someone wants to do competitive book reading, they can do competitive book reading.

WoW is toxic because Blizzard forced/is forcing people of different mentalities to play together with stupid systems.

They started it in order to get people to start doing endgame content, it worked, and also backfired.

The 0.1% has no reason to be playing with the 1%, the 1% has to reason to be playing with the 5%, and the 95% thats just here to watch colors and pixels on a screen like a toddler, has no reason to play with that 6.1% (Random numbers).

If you wanna blame someone for toxicity, blame Blizzard for forcing players to mix together.

For me, the majority of WoW plays like a toddler eating sand, which is why i avoid pugging like the plague even at +15s, i would rather fail the key and boost a toddler sand eating skill level guildie, than ever having to bother with people outside my circle.

[Echocho]

lol try to do the savage raids and fail like... once You'll be kicked. There are few insults because Squenix has a really big ban hammer

And how exactly do you suggest that I run alt leveling dungeons within a savage raid???

[T-34]

Has it ever occurred to you that games aren't meant to be competitive? Are you one of those people who also thinks that watching TV and reading books should be competitive?

Watching TV and reading books are solo activities, whereas WoW is a group activity with built-in competitive elements. Big difference.
You are very welcome to not be competitive in WoW, but I don't want to play with people like you. I see no problem in that.
There are also people that don't want to play with me and I fully support them in the right to chose whom the play with and for any reason whatsoever.

And could you please show me where Blizzard writes that WoW "isn't meant to be competitive?" I mean I am a bit confused, because Blizzard regularly hosts Mythic+- and PvP-tournaments where we have winners and losers. That sounds like competition to me.

[blackbird1205]

I agree that the community has it's flaws, maybe generated due to the nature of the game, but you should try playing other games like lol, then you really learn the definition of toxicity. Compared to those games wow is quite pleasant

[crusadernero]

I agree that the community has it's flaws, maybe generated due to the nature of the game, but you should try playing other games like lol, then you really learn the definition of toxicity. Compared to those games wow is quite pleasant

This is important to remember, sadly. Its very toxic almost in all games that are online. For 100% non toxic experience, play solo games :P

[Jazzhands]

Has it ever occurred to you that games aren't meant to be competitive? Are you one of those people who also thinks that watching TV and reading books should be competitive?

Blizzard hosts literal tournaments for their game. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe you're playing the wrong game?

[epLe]

The toxic community..

The primary reason for how toxic the community has become, is simply caused by the shift of players in the playerbase.
This generation that now represents the majority of the playerbase, is not the same as 10-15 years ago.

Why the modern generation Z is so toxic, is probably because of how they were raised.
And when Blizzard then is catering to them, it both enforces and enables their toxicity.

[slime]

#2 really hits it on the head. I'm sure I burned out of raiding due to the endless wipes. It was like I dreaded the 2-3 hours of raiding each of the two nights, felt like a second job. Watching people die over and over to the same junk or not perform close to what they should.
UGH. Good riddance.

[erifwodahs]

Has it ever occurred to you that games aren't meant to be competitive? Are you one of those people who also thinks that watching TV and reading books should be competitive?

Do you understand that games ARE competitive in the WHOLE ANIMAL KINGDOM? If people were not competitive animals, we wouldn't have that literally EVERYWHERE?
Competition is the driving thing for all species, even wars, as shit as they are, have some good stuff. Cold War, Space Race, iOS vs Android, supermarket vs supermarket. Olympic games, National games, school games. Or are you one of the "participation trophy" guys?

[Zmagoslav]

Planetside 2.

Your entire counterargument boils down to "we live in filth and squalor and we should continue to do so".

It's like 19th century peasants being afraid emancipation because they can't imagine a life that isn't shit.

For a game with no meta (a way to optimaly build your character) that game sure has a lot of people using same loadouts...

All the while yours sounds like the mad-ravings of somebody who just can't keep up and has thus started supporting socialist ideologies without understanding them in the 1st place.

Has it ever occurred to you that games aren't meant to be competitive? Are you one of those people who also thinks that watching TV and reading books should be competitive?

Except for those that are made to be competitive you mean?

[Wilfire]

Do you understand that games ARE competitive in the WHOLE ANIMAL KINGDOM? If people were not competitive animals, we wouldn't have that literally EVERYWHERE?
Competition is the driving thing for all species, even wars, as shit as they are, have some good stuff. Cold War, Space Race, iOS vs Android, supermarket vs supermarket. Olympic games, National games, school games. Or are you one of the "participation trophy" guys?

Unlike animals, humans are capable of introspection to prevent self-destructive behaviors.

[erifwodahs]

Unlike animals, humans are capable of introspection to prevent self-destructive behaviors.

We are, but claiming that games are not supposed to be competitive is a joke. Games are just that, competition, challenge and education. What you are saying is basically that food is not supposed to be used as an energy source. Taste is a bonus, but at the core it's energy source.

Edit: Even it the game is more about cooperation - it's ups who make it competitive. World First and MDI and RIO is community driven.