This loot system has to go.

[chiddie]

im literally sitting in 197 gear in every slot, my great vault has given me 5 trinkets and 1 weapon choice, this week i got trinkets boots and weapons.

but legit i have done 4 raids with the guild, and gotten 1 item.
that is 40 raid bosses, and 1 friggen item.
Classic wasnt even this bad, i have legit gone 4 weeks without an item upgrade all.

yes you could say i should do higher keys, but i work 15 hour days, 6 days a week.

they made the game more casual freindly, then turned it up to 50 with the flip of a button when most of the playerbase couldnt commit 3-4 hours a night to keep up to try and get gear.

Exactely. These “it’s all fine” people should just bring one non fotm dps toon at 60, play it 1-1,5 hours a day max for one month, pugging only M+ and see where they will be with the ilvl gear after this month (hint = probably somewhere between 190 and 200).

[Skavee]

Im about same, close to 7/10... I actually havent gotten anything in 19 mythic kills, but have the ring and boots BOE drops...got more loot from trash than bosses XD. Im sitting at around 219 ilvl which is one of the lowest in the raid group

Make that 22M bosses for me now, and still 1 item. Sitting at 217ilvl. My 226 pieces all came from the m+ vault. I run at least 4x M14+ a week.

[Stabbyfists]

Again I point to what another MMO does in terms of loot and I wonder how it could possibly work in World of Warcraft.

You see, Final Fantasy 14 still has master looter intact, and has gear drops like in Legion and below. The SAVAGE mode difficulty, however, has a slightly different looting system. After each boss kill, you are granted a Book (Token) which you can save up for and use to buy a specific piece of gear you want if you have been unlucky in rolls or it just never dropped. This system is what prevented the whole "I did X boss, and I didn't get loot cause I'm a Trial" debate cause even if the trial did not get a piece of gear that week, he was able to save up the tokens he got from boss kills to be able to get a piece of gear.

Now I wondered, how could that be applied to WoW in such a way that it would both work, and not overwhelm a player with tokens in their inventory. Then I took a look at 2 already implemented systems in wow - LFR and PVP.

LFR was the basis for my idea so that there would not be too many tokens in someone's bag.

PVP for the pricing and pacing of said Tokens in such a way you can reasonably work towards a specific item and still acquire it in a reasonable amount of time.

Now for the Token idea. A token would drop off a "Wing" boss on each difficulty, based on how the LFR wings are divided so this Tier it would be - Darkvein, Blood Council, Stone Legion Generals, and Denathrius. Now Each difficulty would drop a token based on said difficulty, there would be LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic tokens, and rather be on the currency tab, you hold them in your bags and can put them in your bank, etc.

Now for the Pricing. I would divide items up into 4 categories and price them based on how PVP items are kinda priced.

Conduits, Rings, Necks, Cloaks, Bracers, and off hands would be 4 tokens, 1 from each wing boss.
1 Handed Weapons, Boots, Gloves, Shoulders Chests, Helms, Legs would be 8 tokens, 2 from each wing boss
Caster Weapons, Shields, Trinkets, would be 12 tokens, 3 from each boss
2h Weapons and Stone Legion/Denathrius items (since higher ilvl) would be 16 tokens, 4 from each boss.

This would allow the targeting of certain items kind of like how PVP has the targeting of items via conquest, and it also allows the option of Master looting to come back, since the token would be personal loot no matter what and pugs would be able to work towards items in guild runs without them feeling like their efforts are unrewarded.

[chiddie]

Make that 22M bosses for me now, and still 1 item. Sitting at 217ilvl. My 226 pieces all came from the m+ vault. I run at least 4x M14+ a week.

Honestly, I can live with the loot starving and the vault BUT the vault should allow players to pick 1 item from one of the slots of THEIR choice.

For example, this week I got to choose between a useless 226 helm (it’s my leggo slot) and useless a 210 wrist (I already have a 210 wrist).

Why can’t the game just tell me “dude, you can choose a 216 ilvl item or a 210 ilvl item, here’s a screen with your actual equip, choose a slot and a ilvl and claim your prize”.

It would be ONE freakin item anyways, by the time I full all the slots the season will end and the process will start again from the beginning.

[ellieg]

Exactely. These “it’s all fine” people should just bring one non fotm dps toon at 60, play it 1-1,5 hours a day max for one month, pugging only M+ and see where they will be with the ilvl gear after this month (hint = probably somewhere between 190 and 200).

I play frost. Im at 212 ilvl. Cld but 2 pieces of conquest to push to 213 but waiting on vault. Almost at 1600, will push me to 215 ilvl. Its not that hard if you actually try.

And didn't u say you were a healer doing low keys? Fotm has nothing to do with your situation.

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im literally sitting in 197 gear in every slot, my great vault has given me 5 trinkets and 1 weapon choice, this week i got trinkets boots and weapons.

but legit i have done 4 raids with the guild, and gotten 1 item.
that is 40 raid bosses, and 1 friggen item.
Classic wasnt even this bad, i have legit gone 4 weeks without an item upgrade all.

yes you could say i should do higher keys, but i work 15 hour days, 6 days a week.

they made the game more casual freindly, then turned it up to 50 with the flip of a button when most of the playerbase couldnt commit 3-4 hours a night to keep up to try and get gear.

If u did 40 bosses and got 1 drop, that has a 1.06% chance of happening. Possible but terrible luck.

And you work 15 hour days 6x a week? Literally 90 hours a week? Over double what most ppl work? I don't think an mmorpg is the right game for u.

168 hours in a week. You spend 53.5% of that working?

[Caerrona]

I play frost. Im at 212 ilvl. Cld but 2 pieces of conquest to push to 213 but waiting on vault. Almost at 1600, will push me to 215 ilvl. Its not that hard if you actually try.

And didn't u say you were a healer doing low keys? Fotm has nothing to do with your situation.

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If u did 40 bosses and got 1 drop, that has a 1.06% chance of happening. Possible but terrible luck.

And you work 15 hour days 6x a week? Literally 90 hours a week? Over double what most ppl work? I don't think an mmorpg is the right game for u.

168 hours in a week. You spend 53.5% of that working?

I work 60 hour weeks, guess that puts me in what 8-9 free 226s handed to me blizzard since that guys wants full bis mailed to him for working 90?

I mean shit ill take it.

[ellieg]

I work 60 hour weeks, guess that puts me in what 8-9 free 226s handed to me blizzard since that guys wants full bis mailed to him for working 90?

I mean shit ill take it.

Man, I gotta put in more hours. Waiting on the "im a stepdad of 7, with alzheimers working 80 hours a day and can only play 5 mins spread throughout the day. Why am I only 224 ilvl?"

[epLe]

"This loot system has to go."....

This loot system = The great vault, mission table rewards and mobs dropping stuff.

I agree the great vault, and mission table brought a flood of loot which is diminishing the value.

But the system overall has been around since Diablo, and has been working very well for Blizzard, and all the other games who copied their system.

[Appelgren]

This system won't stay. Its one of the most hated things they have done in any wow expansion. People are leaving in droves and blizzard has already acknowledged its fucked. Just wait for next tier and shit should be fixed

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the fact a pve player needs to do pvp to get gear is just proving that this shit aint working

Any sources that proves these claims?
Sounds like a bunch of people whining and then using that whining as arguments and facts

[mistmitpandas]

"This loot system has to go."....

This loot system = The great vault, mission table rewards and mobs dropping stuff.

I agree the great vault, and mission table brought a flood of loot which is diminishing the value.

But the system overall has been around since Diablo, and has been working very well for Blizzard, and all the other games who copied their system.

Wait, mission table gives you 220-226 loot?

[epLe]

Ilevels is not really relevant to the system.

But in some ways the mission table was better during WoD, when it actually could give you upgrades regardless of what you had.

[chiddie]

I play frost. Im at 212 ilvl. Cld but 2 pieces of conquest to push to 213 but waiting on vault. Almost at 1600, will push me to 215 ilvl. Its not that hard if you actually try.

And didn't u say you were a healer doing low keys? Fotm has nothing to do with your situation.

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If u did 40 bosses and got 1 drop, that has a 1.06% chance of happening. Possible but terrible luck.

And you work 15 hour days 6x a week? Literally 90 hours a week? Over double what most ppl work? I don't think an mmorpg is the right game for u.

168 hours in a week. You spend 53.5% of that working?

I am an healer and I have no issues with queues, loot is a different story. But, again, I was speaking with dps pants.

As I repeated many times, i now do more than in BfA to have less. Maybe it’s my issue only but it’s an issue indeed (again, for me).

Also, this thing “if you cannot play 30-40 hours a week you chose the wrong game” is so 2005, since the game is basically still alive thanks to people that still play even with few spare time due to the “single player” concessions Blizzard made during the years.

[glowpipe]

Any sources that proves these claims?
Sounds like a bunch of people whining and then using that whining as arguments and facts

Ion publicly achknowledging it was "broken" is a surefire sign of them going to do something about it, or it would be dead silence like everything else thats never fixed

[ellieg]

I am an healer and I have no issues with queues, loot is a different story. But, again, I was speaking with dps pants.

As I repeated many times, i now do more than in BfA to have less. Maybe it’s my issue only but it’s an issue indeed (again, for me).

Also, this thing “if you cannot play 30-40 hours a week you chose the wrong game” is so 2005, since the game is basically still alive thanks to people that still play even with few spare time due to the “single player” concessions Blizzard made during the years.

There's a big difference between "30-40" hours a week playing this game, and a dude that literally works 15 hours a day. Assuming he doesn't get 8 full hours of sleep and only gets 6, that's 42 hours of sleep a week plus 90 hours working. So 132 hours of his 168 hours is filled right there. That leaves 36 hours. Fill that in with showering, getting groceries, eating, seeing fam or friends, driving to work or anywhere. Im surprised he even finds time to play the game at all. Sounds like at full 197 gear, he did all his single player stuff. Gotta make time fir group content or he's hit his cap.

If you were casual, titanforging was great. If you played anywhere near a high level, it was awful. You get less quantity of loot now but if you're progressing thru content, you are arguably closer to your BiS than you would be in BFA. If you dont play at that level I see how u cld be annoyed, but much less ppl hate it than you think.

[Zergin8r]

There's a big difference between "30-40" hours a week playing this game, and a dude that literally works 15 hours a day. Assuming he doesn't get 8 full hours of sleep and only gets 6, that's 42 hours of sleep a week plus 90 hours working. So 132 hours of his 168 hours is filled right there. That leaves 36 hours. Fill that in with showering, getting groceries, eating, seeing fam or friends, driving to work or anywhere. Im surprised he even finds time to play the game at all. Sounds like at full 197 gear, he did all his single player stuff. Gotta make time fir group content or he's hit his cap.

If you were casual, titanforging was great. If you played anywhere near a high level, it was awful. You get less quantity of loot now but if you're progressing thru content, you are arguably closer to your BiS than you would be in BFA. If you dont play at that level I see how u cld be annoyed, but much less ppl hate it than you think.

Yep that's why I unsubbed for now.... 1 hour trip to work and back each day + 10 hour shifts means I get maybe an hour to play weekdays and a few hours on weekends... have to run dungeons mostly and they don't drop gear often and the vault gave me the same item slots 3 weeks in a row. I know that you can get better gear from pvp, but until satellite internet can get below 500ms + it's not really an option for me with the way pvp is all about killing in less than a second now most times I die before I can do anything.

[ellieg]

Yep that's why I unsubbed for now.... 1 hour trip to work and back each day + 10 hour shifts means I get maybe an hour to play weekdays and a few hours on weekends... have to run dungeons mostly and they don't drop gear often and the vault gave me the same item slots 3 weeks in a row. I know that you can get better gear from pvp, but until satellite internet can get below 500ms + it's not really an option for me with the way pvp is all about killing in less than a second now most times I die before I can do anything.

I feel you, thats rough. Im lucky and get 3 dif 4 hour play sessions a week. Its been enough to get weekly "chores" done, and abt 4 m+ a week. Trying to slowly grind closer to the top.

[fadedmind]

It's a lottery because you do little but hope for the reset to give you something. This week I had two raid choices & 3x +15 choices, & ended up taking a belt specifically for PvP because everything else was useless.

This system is designed to keep the gap small between the good casual & the hardcore. If Person A does 1x14, & Person B does 100x M+15 & say 7 bosses in Nathria, person B is, at best, only going to get one more 226 piece than person A. Which is why my request of having more rewarding content without the vault is never going to happen (and to be honest, I understand this upside of it).

I feel this system is much better than last expansion where you were stuck with one piece. At least in shadowlands pvp players, M+ players, and raiders have their own weekly chest or if they want more chances at useful gear they can do the other stuff. Of course gearing is going to slow down and a certain ilvl threshold and you’re trying to min/max your secondary stats and RNG will always screw people but that will always be the case.

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Yep that's why I unsubbed for now.... 1 hour trip to work and back each day + 10 hour shifts means I get maybe an hour to play weekdays and a few hours on weekends... have to run dungeons mostly and they don't drop gear often and the vault gave me the same item slots 3 weeks in a row. I know that you can get better gear from pvp, but until satellite internet can get below 500ms + it's not really an option for me with the way pvp is all about killing in less than a second now most times I die before I can do anything.

I drive 2hrs one way so 4 hrs per day(unless weather and traffic fucks things up I’ve had a 4hr commute one way)and 8 hr work so 60hrs per week but I have Saturday’s and sundays off. I raid Friday/Saturday nights and able to squeeze in 1-2 M+ each work day. Weekends For the most part I have open to grind. I main one character only and sitting at 215 ilvl so far.

[Doffen]

Ion publicly achknowledging it was "broken" is a surefire sign of them going to do something about it, or it would be dead silence like everything else thats never fixed

He did not say it was "broken". When are you guys gonna stop? The fact they nerf tw raid drops and nerf CN drop rates weeks into the expansion is however a clear indication that this system will stay intact for the most part.

He however acknowledged that it might feel a bit unrewarding to not get gear when finishing a dungeon or raid boss. You can look forward to getting more anima from that content from 9.1 lol.

And stop comparing pvp gear with pve. You can't target gear in pvp like in pve. Without a vendor there would be 100% rng what loot you would get. In PvE you can actually target the exact item you want. In pvp there is no such thing. Comparing player vs player to story mode aka pve is like comparing apples to oranges.

Any sources that proves these claims?
Sounds like a bunch of people whining and then using that whining as arguments and facts

Pretty much. Like Ion said that it might feel unrewarding if you do not get gear from doing that dungeon or that raidboss gets translated to "BROKEN" from certain group of players.

I have asked for source before, but dead silence from same people. Show me he said it was broken or saying big changes are coming I say and I will be proved wrong, no problem. Until then, well let loot be loot.

[Azerox]

We are getting more BoE then normal loot.
BoE = Gold = Token = Euros.
Blizz loots the most while raiding us

[Ssateneth]

another person that has NO IDEA how loot works right now. Conduits do not replace an item drop when you get loot.