Nevada bill would allow tech companies to create governments

[Edge-]

It's voluntary right now, have the experiment last 10 years.

You keep talking as if this hasn't been tried historically, and there aren't real-world examples in China of exactly how this shit plays out.

It benefits the corporations for sure, and in China the government, but that's about it. It's not 100% always bad, there are historical examples of some surprisingly progressive company towns, but they're a fringe minority compared to the usual race to fully exploit the workers as much as they can.

It is objectively more voluntary that the current paradigm. Like I said, one small step.

It kinda isn't really. There's a reason why there aren't any left to speak of, and it's not because they were models of efficiency.

Why can you not go start your own socialist haven? Hippies and religious zealots do it.

Because that's not how socialism works. You can't do like, local, small-scale socialism in a capitalist country like this. There are co-ops that are socially owned, but a fully functioning town based purely on socialism simply doesn't work. And it's not supposed to work, because that's not socialism.

[Fugus]

Not no, but hell no. And just skimmed the responses on the first page so if any of this has already been mentioned, I will not have seen it. But Cubby, this is one where I HAVE to disagree with you.

Even if the companies were SUPPOSED to follow the same rules as others, we have a history going back longer than anyone alive showing how they will actively bend or break those for profit or influence towards those goals. You can best bet they would be making sure the judges they promote will be as pro-corporate as they can, along with the teachers and curriculum they teach and so on and so on. Even if they couldn't directly mint their coin that still wouldn't prevent them from making sure the prices are enough to extract as much wealth as they can from their members and so on.

These children would grow up to be too uninformed to do anything because their school shunned any teacher that taught them critical thinking skills instead of teaching them just the skills to make them capable to do the jobs the company will be planning on hiring them for in their futures to help drive down the cost of the labor.

Sorry but history has taught us how much these companies can be trusted and definitely when it comes to company towns.

[Sunseeker]

Companies move all the fucking time, so yes.

I also support you if you want to get some of that uninhabited land, and build a socialist fucking utopia.

lol

I'm cleaning my house today and lack entertainment so please, continue to demonstrate your ignorance of what you're advocating for, and basically everything while you're at it. I'll get the popcorn.

[Machismo]

You keep talking as if this hasn't been tried historically, and there aren't real-world examples in China of exactly how this shit plays out.

It benefits the corporations for sure, and in China the government, but that's about it. It's not 100% always bad, there are historical examples of some surprisingly progressive company towns, but they're a fringe minority compared to the usual race to fully exploit the workers as much as they can.



It kinda isn't really. There's a reason why there aren't any left to speak of, and it's not because they were models of efficiency.



Because that's not how socialism works. You can't do like, local, small-scale socialism in a capitalist country like this. There are co-ops that are socially owned, but a fully functioning town based purely on socialism simply doesn't work. And it's not supposed to work, because that's not socialism.

Socialism was tried, and it didn't do so well.

So, I guess we're fucking done pushing it, right?

Man, I fucking love this. I love that you are so pissed off at the idea of people being free to start a government.

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lol

I'm cleaning my house today and lack entertainment so please, continue to demonstrate your ignorance of what you're advocating for, and basically everything while you're at it. I'll get the popcorn.

I'm advocating for voluntary governance. This is simply a small step.

[Edge-]

Socialism was tried, and it didn't do so well.

I mean, not really. Some countries have embraced a lot more socialist programs and policies, but remain firmly capitalist. And those countries are still doing pretty fuckin good, and aren't faced with problems that we are in the US like millions of uninsured folks and insane hospital bills.

So, I guess we're fucking done pushing it, right?

Naw, because the socialist policies in Europe are generally pretty popular and successful. Would love to see more of them move over here.

I love that you are so pissed off at the idea of people being free to start a government.

...this is literally not the topic or remotely relevant to Nevada. This is not "people being free to start a government" in any way, shape or form. This isn't "increased freedom" in any way, shape, or form. If anything, it's even less freedom as you now get to deal with additional rules and selective enforcement of laws on behalf of the corporation.

Gonna love them curfews they put up and the people they evict when a union movement starts. Maybe they'll hire the Pinkertons to do the wetwork, though I'm sure Blackwater is always available.

[Sunseeker]

I'm advocating for voluntary governance. This is simply a small step.

And you have ZERO idea what that looks like or how similar situations in the past have played out.

You are advocating from a position of extreme ignorance coupled with extreme arrogance that your position is sound when it is historically demonstrable that it is NOT.

[Edge-]

You are advocating from a position of extreme ignorance coupled with extreme arrogance that your position is sound when it is historically demonstrable that it is NOT.

Not just historically, but currently.

https://www.businessinsider.com/appl...os-tour-2018-5

Half of the world's iPhones are made at a sprawling Foxconn factory complex in Zhengzhou, China.

It employs as many as 350,000 people and has spawned a mini city that residents have taken to calling "iPhone City."

We spent a day in iPhone City, talking with residents, shop owners, and factory workers to hear about their lives.

The story that emerged was one of low pay and long hours, but altogether not that different from other factories in China.

Foxconn, the workers told us, is no better or worse than any of the other factories they had worked at.

But few saw a way out of the grinding factory lifestyle in which they work six days a week, see their spouses once weekly if they are lucky, and frequently work dozens of hours of overtime.

More in the article, but look at all that freedom and how much better they have it than the rest of their non-company town colleagues. This is truly the future.

[Sunseeker]

Not just historically, but currently.

https://www.businessinsider.com/appl...os-tour-2018-5



More in the article, but look at all that freedom and how much better they have it than the rest of their non-company town colleagues. This is truly the future.

So a "Foxconn City" is demonstrably equivalent to the authoritarian state of China.

Such freedom! Much liberty! Wow!

[Machismo]

And you have ZERO idea what that looks like or how similar situations in the past have played out.

You are advocating from a position of extreme ignorance coupled with extreme arrogance that your position is sound when it is historically demonstrable that it is NOT.

No, this is simply you bitching, because people are freely doing what you don't want them to do.

So, don't fucking go.

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I mean, not really. Some countries have embraced a lot more socialist programs and policies, but remain firmly capitalist. And those countries are still doing pretty fuckin good, and aren't faced with problems that we are in the US like millions of uninsured folks and insane hospital bills.



Naw, because the socialist policies in Europe are generally pretty popular and successful. Would love to see more of them move over here.



...this is literally not the topic or remotely relevant to Nevada. This is not "people being free to start a government" in any way, shape or form. This isn't "increased freedom" in any way, shape, or form. If anything, it's even less freedom as you now get to deal with additional rules and selective enforcement of laws on behalf of the corporation.

Gonna love them curfews they put up and the people they evict when a union movement starts. Maybe they'll hire the Pinkertons to do the wetwork, though I'm sure Blackwater is always available.

So. Don't. Fucking. Go.

No need for you to stop others from having their fun.

You're the dude in England, bitching that people are on the Mayflower.

[cubby]

It gets progressively cheaper to buy influence the further down the ladder you go, and the effectiveness improves.

True - but that influence is possible right now, for better or worse. I'm not sure it would change much in your example.

My understanding is the Foxconn towns still have to abide by Chinese law. They're just an example of how following the laws can be more of a "choice" rather than a hard and fast rule, as they can be surprisingly flexible.

And that's a really good point. Certainly if the town was run by the company, reporting issues to authorities who could do something about it would be harder. Perhaps not "suicide net" levels harder, but I do see what you're getting at.

[Fugus]

No, this is simply you bitching, because people are freely doing what you don't want them to do.

So, don't fucking go.

I think I missed something, where did they mention anything about people doing freely what they wanted? The first article I read mentioned about allowing companies to setup their own towns as they pleased.

Didn't see anywhere where individuals were getting new rights or anything.

[Machismo]

I think I missed something, where did they mention anything about people doing freely what they wanted? The first article I read mentioned about allowing companies to setup their own towns as they pleased.

Didn't see anywhere where individuals were getting new rights or anything.

They are freely able to start a government, and literally nobody is obligated to be a part of it, if they do not wish to be.

[Edge-]

So. Don't. Fucking. Go.

No need for you to stop others from having their fun.

You're the dude in England, bitching that people are on the Mayflower.

This is the most ahistorical take I've seen in a while. Seriously, how much US history do you even know? I mean, the colonial era, the robber-baron era with company towns etc. etc.?

Because it continues to look like the answer is "none, to very little". Because again, we have historical examples of why this is a terrible thing that generally leads to awful consequences fore everyone involve except...well...the company running the company town.

[Machismo]

This is the most ahistorical take I've seen in a while. Seriously, how much US history do you even know? I mean, the colonial era, the robber-baron era with company towns etc. etc.?

Because it continues to look like the answer is "none, to very little". Because again, we have historical examples of why this is a terrible thing that generally leads to awful consequences fore everyone involve except...well...the company running the company town.

Once again, this is uninhabited land, let's call it a frontier.

You don't need to go, but you can, if you want.

[Fugus]

They are freely able to start a government, and literally nobody is obligated to be a part of it, if they do not wish to be.

Maybe if you were in a nation with a UBI or some kind where the workers could collectively tell them to screw off, but that isn't the case. So long as people need work and we aren't at 100% employment, people will need jobs and they will be able to exploit that.

This isn't about individuals exercising their rights, this is about giving companies the rights to setup towns where they have the power to curtail yours for their own benefit. We literally have historical examples of abuse from this.

[Edge-]

True - but that influence is possible right now, for better or worse. I'm not sure it would change much in your example.

The "company" administers the town...companies do not do that now. They can buy influence, but they can't "run" a town like this. This gives them the ability to run the town, while buying influence with local officials to allow them to circumvent the supposed oversight. Which shouldn't be surprising, the US has a long, long, long, long, long, long history of companies bypassing supposed safeguards/restrictions/limitations/safety precautions and getting caught when it ends up harming their workers again and again and again and again.

And that's a really good point. Certainly if the town was run by the company, reporting issues to authorities who could do something about it would be harder. Perhaps not "suicide net" levels harder, but I do see what you're getting at.

Sure, but what will the local authorities do if they're bought and paid for? See the Business Insider article I linked for an example of the glorious company towns in China. Which are no better, and arguably worse, than the already abysmal working conditions for most workers.

[Sunseeker]

No, this is simply you bitching, because people are freely doing what you don't want them to do.

So, don't fucking go.

"People" aren't "freely" doing anything. That's basically my point.

But your self-righteous arrogance and complete ignorance about reality makes you blind to that.

This "company mini-state" thing is basically the opposite of freedom. But your An-Cap idiocy promotes the idiotic idea of "Yes you can work in Factoryland for slave wages or you can choose to go die destitute and starving."

If the choice is "Do the thing or risk death." then it is the definition of a false choice. "Death" is not a viable alternative. Like, it's literally the opposite of the word "viable". That's not "freedom" in any way, shape or form.

[Edge-]

Once again, this is uninhabited land, let's call it a frontier.

You keep talking about uninhabited land...does that make it special or something?

[Fugus]

This passes, then you start seeing Walmart moving all of it's "Great Value" and "Mainstay" brand products they couldn't send to slave labor of some kind overseas to that area along with all the distribution centers they could get.

As far as judges, they will try and get as many as they can from the recommendations from the Federalist papers.

Teachers, they will try and get them from Alabama and Mississippi and have the kids where were they know how to do the inventory management software but also to shun critical thinking as being "For those too lazy to work" and that Unions were the spawn of satan.

[Machismo]

Maybe if you were in a nation with a UBI or some kind where the workers could collectively tell them to screw off, but that isn't the case. So long as people need work and we aren't at 100% employment, people will need jobs and they will be able to exploit that.

This isn't about individuals exercising their rights, this is about giving companies the rights to setup towns where they have the power to curtail yours for their own benefit. We literally have historical examples of abuse from this.

The part where you tell them to screw off, is when you don't go there in the first place.

It's that easy.

There are other companies to work for, there are other jobs.