Guilds dying because of Castle Nathria?

[crusadernero]

Unless Blizzard makes it literally impossible to raid log, you can still raid log. Hint, they have not. If your guild or raid leader isn't letting you in because you're raid logging then tell the raid leader to go fuck themselves. They are putting unreasonable requests on you. Hint they do not control your gameplay. Only blizzard does and people reacting with "WAAAAAAH I AM FORCED." have a simple adult issue that they need to over come. Lack of self control.

Lack of self control is when you spend more time in game cause of no other apparent reason than to just be online, especially if you do it without enjoyment. What we have today is mythic content where you really should do whatever it takes to make your character optimal, or its not just worth it. Thats how its always been, but its alot more to it today than before.

In LFR, Normal and to some degree HC you can pretty much dont give a shit about your character, just enter raid, follow mechanics and win. Its not like that in mythic though. If you want to be top 50-100 in mythic, it requires alot more than pure skill. Heck, even if you want to clear mythic raids(except last tier of a xpac, that one is usually nerfed to the ground), it requires alot from you.

And why should people invite others that dont come prepared? Why invite someone you know will make the raid worse?

This is a blame you can put on Blizzard, not the players. Blizzard has turned the raiding scene into this, cause it didnt use to be like this.

[The Butt Witch]

Tbh, I decided to quit raiding and focus on M+. There is just too much time and work that must be invested in a raid only to get like MAYBE one item during the entire run. That's just not working out for me.

When I do keys, I actually have a sense of progression and I don't feel like I'm working for nothing.

Yesterday was the first raid night that I didn't sign up for so I can do M+. I was completeting M+ after M+ and DBM was still letting me know that my guild was wiping left and right. Yeah... good riddance.

[Drynix]

one irrelevant youtuber's guild died during a specific raid tier = all guilds are dying because of the raid

Not exactly one, it was also the guild of the FatbossTV guys. Who make guides that a ton of people use. Wouldn't call them irrelevant, since even blizzard refers to their guides on wowhead from time to time.

[crusadernero]

Tbh, I decided to quit raiding and focus on M+. There is just too much time and work that must be invested in a raid only to get like MAYBE one item during the entire run. That's just not working out for me.

When I do keys, I actually have a sense of progression and I don't feel like I'm working for nothing.

Yesterday was the first raid night that I didn't sign up for so I can do M+. I was completeting M+ after M+ and DBM was still letting me know that my guild was wiping left and right. Yeah... good riddance.

Well yeah, its always been easier to devote time for dungeons than raiding, especially at mythic levels. You can log on whenever and do dungeons and make your own schedule. Raiding with a guild is something else.

Its just like with sports and training. Alot of people dont want to play in teams cause its a set schedule when to practice etc. Why do that when you can set your own schedule?

[The Butt Witch]

Well yeah, its always been easier to devote time for dungeons than raiding, especially at mythic levels. You can log on whenever and do dungeons and make your own schedule. Raiding with a guild is something else.

Its just like with sports and training. Alot of people dont want to play in teams cause its a set schedule when to practice etc. Why do that when you can set your own schedule?

That wasn't a problem for me in the past. However, also in the past, you could get an average of 3 items per raid, making the whole business worthwhile. Now with Blizzard's bright idea to nerf drops to basically non-existence, raids are just a lot of work for a lot of nothing at the end of them, also add the fact that another of Blizzard's bright ideas was to counter DBM's help by adding and adding mechanics on top of other mechanics and making raids a real pain in the ass, especially if you play a melee spec. You reach a breaking point eventually when it's just not worth it anymore.

[crusadernero]

That wasn't a problem for me in the past. However, also in the past, you could get an average of 3 items per raid, making the whole business worthwhile. Now with Blizzard's bright idea to nerf drops to basically non-existence, raids are just a lot of work for a lot of nothing at the end of them, also add the fact that another of Blizzard's bright ideas was to counter DBM's help by adding and adding mechanics on top of other mechanics and making raids a real pain in the ass, especially if you play a melee spec. You reach a breaking point eventually when it's just not worth it anymore.

yeah thats a issue now to - Blizzard makes harder and harder fight that gets difficult to follow. Sooner or later it just gets to much. I think we are at that point now.

[Speedlance]

I have an alt i rarely use in a guild i joined in vanilla. Logged onto that char and the guild is still there and raiding and was highly active.
I think if your guilds primary focus is to only raid and nothing else the guild will eventually crumble in most cases.

[DeltrusDisc]

Its the reward structure.

I sensed it in myself for my raiders over some other raiders, and what i mean by this, i have multiple familiars IRL that play WoW, they gathered towards me cause i carry their asses either way, so they can abuse my guild for raiding HC, of course its not as terrible as i make it sound, but that is my truth.

I always say, "If you copy yourself 4 more times, can you do m+15? No? You are shit". "If you copy yourself 9 more times, can you clear HC? No? you are shit.", and unluckily, 90% of my IRL familiars fall in that category.

So when i see the 2.5k DPS, 20% ilvl log Elemental Shaman get an item that my 5k DPS 98% log shaman should be getting, even i got annoyed, and i havent felt that feeling since WoTLK.

It doesn't seem to be a loot issue, honestly.

[Chromell]

I swear every single raid tier gets a thread like this.

[potis]

It doesn't seem to be a loot issue, honestly.

Its a mix of things, but its an extra icing on the cake i mean, its not 100% loot issue, but the new reward structure, makes weaker players/weaker guilds exposed.

There is no longer gear flowing from low M+ to carry their asses to clear HC easily.

The combination, causes resentment and distraught.

[Xath]

Just admit it. You want WoD back where it was raid or die and have nothing else to do.

Except it wasn't at all. PvP was big challenge modes were fun and not something you could just outgear. What new stuff is there world quests which are just glorified dailies? The Maw which is an absolute time sink of boredom but directly tied to player power.

[KaPe]

Its a mix of things, but its an extra icing on the cake i mean, its not 100% loot issue, but the new reward structure, makes weaker players/weaker guilds exposed.

There is no longer gear flowing from low M+ to carry their asses to clear HC easily.

The combination, causes resentment and distraught.

It's not about "people getting carried by M+ items to clear HC", the issues with loot are also relevant on Mythic. Having only 3 gear drops per boss means you can easily get triple duplicates, which can be extremely frustrating - especially when there's only a couple bosses with weapon drops. Further than that, you can get multiple BoE pieces by clearing trash, at a fraction of effort - and they fill more slots than ever.

It just feels extremely unrewarding for the effort it requires. Going down from 5 drops to 3 was a massive reduction that made gearing up through raids even more luck based than before. This is especially true for stuff like trinkets, which never had Corruption and titanforging them wasn't nearly as important. (doesn't help that many of them are even worse than usual)

It all pales when compared to PvP and their guaranteed rewards - and while getting the highest quality items does require a fair bit of skill, people can get "good enough" stuff pretty easily.

[tomten]

Never sure why one of the first posts on a thread about Preach had to be someone bashing him.

The guy is extremely relevant to the wow community. Obviously. What is wrong with you?

Relevant to who? To you? Definitely not to me. I've heard his name before but nothing of value is lost not knowing him....

[Davryn]

Relevant to who? To you? Definitely not to me. I've heard his name before but nothing of value is lost not knowing him....

Then why are you making comments about him?

[tomten]

Then why are you making comments about him?

Because I replied to a person who said he's relevant? Are you really this dense?

[Relapses]

That's fine, but the guy is apparently relevant enough to the wow community that he has had numerous interviews with Blizz including Ion and was the most popular caster for several world first races while having widely watched vids and streams. He's not a nobody. All I'm saying.

Not making any comment about the op's argument, just I think it's stupid that every time someone mentions a youtuber or streamer, someone on here has to comment and say that they're a nobody. I guess people like sounding tough? Idk why it happens.

Because nobody's opinion holds more value simply because they have a YT channel. The "literal who?" folks on this forum are more prevalent because what better way to prove to everybody on the internet that you're better than them by having the ability to not watch content creators and instead form your own opinions from your own experiences?

[tomten]

Not making any comment about the op's argument, just I think it's stupid that every time someone mentions a youtuber or streamer, someone on here has to comment and say that they're a nobody. I guess people like sounding tough? Idk why it happens.

Probably people just dont like X person or dislikes the hype around someone. In my case, I just felt it was such a strong statement that he's "extremely relevant" when i've heard of him once or twice during the past 12ish years.
Relevant to me are the people doing all the tournaments, be it pvp or m+ and also which "teams" lead and race for the world first.
Those are things i watch and enjoy

[potis]

Because nobody's opinion holds more value simply because they have a YT channel. The "literal who?" folks on this forum are more prevalent because what better way to prove to everybody on the internet that you're better than them by having the ability to not watch content creators and instead form your own opinions from your own experiences?

Lol, and this is exactly why i dont understand why people even bother watching streamers.

The only people i know that waste their time with that, are simply people that were forced into a lifestyle they dont really like and had to leave their gaming hobby behind so they take their fix through watching someone else, or people that no matter what age group we were, they always were terrible at any game we tried, no matter how much we tried to help them through.

I really dont get it, unless you are in the category of the above.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not about "people getting carried by M+ items to clear HC", the issues with loot are also relevant on Mythic. Having only 3 gear drops per boss means you can easily get triple duplicates, which can be extremely frustrating - especially when there's only a couple bosses with weapon drops. Further than that, you can get multiple BoE pieces by clearing trash, at a fraction of effort - and they fill more slots than ever.

It just feels extremely unrewarding for the effort it requires. Going down from 5 drops to 3 was a massive reduction that made gearing up through raids even more luck based than before. This is especially true for stuff like trinkets, which never had Corruption and titanforging them wasn't nearly as important. (doesn't help that many of them are even worse than usual)

It all pales when compared to PvP and their guaranteed rewards - and while getting the highest quality items does require a fair bit of skill, people can get "good enough" stuff pretty easily.

It just forces non-existent longevity for everyone apart from like the top 100 scene, as i pointed out to the guy few posts earlier, the Top 100 kills are perfectly lined up even with 5-6 years ago.

Its frustrating but i wont lie that when bracers finally dropped after 1.5 months of wearing the 187 ones with socket to a 207, 2-3 weeks ago i did feel a small dopamine effect after years of not having it.

We are simply spoiled with the loot showering, which the way it was designed, helped people that should take lets say, 5 months to get CE based on their speed/skill/raid time, to get in..lets say 3.5 months because when you are overgearing the content by 5 ilvls thanks to the last 2 previous expansions, that tends to happen.

From my pool of like 10-15? IRL friends playing, and another 10 or so e-friends in the guild, i can sense the change of "happiness" "accomplishment" in their voice when something finally drops over the same reactions in BFA/Legion, as myself was "Eh, big deal, i will run a 15 and weekly chest", now i still can get upgrades on Hands/Wrists as example which doesnt actually bother me after the initial "Annoyance" a month ago, i cooled off and i can see how the new (old in reality) system, works out in a way.

[Relapses]

Lol, and this is exactly why i dont understand why people even bother watching streamers.

The only people i know that waste their time with that, are simply people that were forced into a lifestyle they dont really like and had to leave their gaming hobby behind so they take their fix through watching someone else, or people that no matter what age group we were, they always were terrible at any game we tried, no matter how much we tried to help them through.

I really dont get it, unless you are in the category of the above.

Little bit of Column A, little bit of Column B.

YT personalities' opinions do get weighted a bit heavier here on public discussion forums but it's not like we should completely ignore them simply because they have a platform. For the average player, sometimes these personalities are exceptionally good at verbalizing an issue that they, as casual viewers, cannot convey themselves (see: Asmongold). That doesn't mean you should take their opinions as wholesale fact but it isn't necessarily a bad thing to watch a content creator and use the information in their videos to help inform your own opinion.

[potis]

Little bit of Column A, little bit of Column B.

YT personalities' opinions do get weighted a bit heavier here on public discussion forums but it's not like we should completely ignore them simply because they have a platform. For the average player, sometimes these personalities are exceptionally good at verbalizing an issue that they, as casual viewers, cannot convey themselves (see: Asmongold). That doesn't mean you should take their opinions as wholesale fact but it isn't necessarily a bad thing to watch a content creator and use the information in their videos to help inform your own opinion.

But thats the thing, most YT of any game, are literal trash, not in the sense of playstyle, but trash quality.

Most of them just repeat what they read on a forum or on here, or reddit, to get clicks, which means $$, they dont even understand half the shit they are talking about, and yeah, echo chambers after that.

As example, Preach, didnt even know who he was until mid-BFA if it wasnt for a friend to mention him, although i had read the name around here before, and i have never watched a full video, but its clearly obvious what he does.

Despite having the skill to play at a high level, most of his content are trash, pure clickbait trash, made him famous and money so congrats for that, but degrading your quality..Eh.

I just cant understand how people are so damn dumb to not understand basic things like that in 2021.

As example, Max from Limit is making videos now, thats actual guides/quality shit, thats literally the Rank 1 player trying to teach others and i havent even seen any, they just popped up, i dont even have to see them, i know they are decent.

But i guess, anything is like the WoW skill level, tiny % of skill jumps, leading to a massive number of trashness, as it reflects on YT, shouldnt surprise me.