Capitol Insurrection / rebellion thread

[postman1782]

and you believe CNN

Definitely have a better track record than the New York Post. Especially after the bullshit of the Hunter Biden laptop bullshit.

[szechuan]

Or does the rule have different start dates for democrats than republicans

There's no proof she broke the rules. Those people were fined for refusing to go through security when the metal detectors were installed.

[Felya]

and you believe CNN

Remember how GOP had a 4 day RNC, where they claimed that Biden would bring the end of civilization. Now you are arguing about metal detectors, something kids in US have been doing since the 90s. While complaining about CNN...

It’s funny how bias against CNN, hinges on promises on predictions, that both... they didn’t cover and never came to fruition.

[Nastard]

I saw with my own eyes that Mr. "the game" went to McDonalds and grabbed someone's baby, put it between a sesame seed bun, and devoured it RIGHT in front of the momma. Then he refused to share his fries. Sure, same as the Capitol building McDonald's has surveillance cameras so footage of this would've probably been made public by now, but since it hasn't you'll just have to take my word on it that it's absolutely true.

Also, isn't it a bit soon for Trump supporters to be like "U SUPPART A LIER!!!" after the tens of thousands of confirmed lies by the last guy? You gotta let that shit stew simmer for a bit before you try to serve out a heaping helping of hypocrite.

That said, IF Pelosi broke her own rules she should receive the same fine as anyone else. Though until there's proof beyond the word of two disgruntled liars with an axe to grind, I'll be just a tad skeptical.

[jonnysensible]

You did not read the investigation then, the support for the riots and violence against career politicians is not just coming from the right, from Trump supporters or from racists. Hoping that people are only just as angry as they've always been is wishful thinking. Sadly Biden's band-aid measures won't suffice to contain it. Radical change is required.

scratch a leftist who 'supports' the capitol riots and a fascist bleeds.

[Cthulhu 2020]

so was the rule enacted yet or not then? You keep changing your mind about it. Or does the rule have different start dates for democrats than republicans

Don't forget guys, this is the same person ragging on antifa for violence who refuses to condemn white supremacist Trump insurrection terrorists.

[beanman12345]

You did not read the investigation then, the support for the riots and violence against career politicians is not just coming from the right, from Trump supporters or from racists. Hoping that people are only just as angry as they've always been is wishful thinking. Sadly Biden's band-aid measures won't suffice to contain it. Radical change is required.

They wont just stew.

The impotent fascists, the ones who pretend they are anything but hardcore fascists, and embarrass themselves on sub forums of gaming web sites by desperately pleading for radical change, they will stew and their punishment will be endless mockery and being shat all over. The openly fascists ones may try shit, and will go to prison before or after their crimes or they'll coward their way out by shooting themselves before arrest from a mass shooting spree. Regardless, we'll continue giving the finger to these human shit stains. And those who don't like that, well, their tears are delicious.

[Dontrike]

Once again. Nancy Pelosi's rules do not apply to Nancy Pelosi.



https://nypost.com/2021/02/06/gop-wa...le-in-capitol/

Okay and? Fine her too if that's the case. This isn't really the revelation you're hoping it is.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean. The potato in chief lies to you all the time and so does kneepads harris. So you're ok with liars.It just seems to depend on what letter is behind their name.

Oh sweet summer child, tell us when they hit 100 lies in one 2 hour rally speech and then we'll talk, until then you're grasping at straws harder than Scarecrow looking to put himself back together.

[SirBeef]

I saw with my own eyes that Mr. "the game" went to McDonalds and grabbed someone's baby, put it between a sesame seed bun, and devoured it RIGHT in front of the momma. Then he refused to share his fries. Sure, same as the Capitol building McDonald's has surveillance cameras so footage of this would've probably been made public by now, but since it hasn't you'll just have to take my word on it that it's absolutely true.

Also, isn't it a bit soon for Trump supporters to be like "U SUPPART A LIER!!!" after the tens of thousands of confirmed lies by the last guy? You gotta let that shit stew simmer for a bit before you try to serve out a heaping helping of hypocrite.

That said, IF Pelosi broke her own rules she should receive the same fine as anyone else. Though until there's proof beyond the word of two disgruntled liars with an axe to grind, I'll be just a tad skeptical.

Funny, I saw him distributing child porn in the basement of a pizzeria. No cameras but trust me. I am a more reliable source than the NYpost.
[Infraction]

[Belize]

"What’s clear is that the Capitol riot revealed a new force in American politics—not merely a mix of right-wing organizations, but a broader mass political movement that has violence at its core and draws strength even from places where Trump supporters are in the minority."

Sounds about right. It has very little to do with Trump - and Biden and his supporters need to be very careful the coming years they don't add more fuel to the flames. (as most Biden-supporters however -are- doing on this very subforums). Seems rather people are entirely clueless about what drives this sentiment and they've no interest in trying to gain a deeper understanding. Too obsessed with agendas that are entirely irrelevant to the anger that boils under the surface, not just in the USA, but across the entire western world.

Why am I not surprised to see you advocate capitulating to the right wing terrorists...

[Rozz]

Remember to stay on topic, this isn't a thread to post any petty thing done by a party member.

[Levelfive]

Yeah but the gist of her comment is accurate. There are reasons that Trump has not already been convicted in the Senate, and is very likely going to not be convicted when all is said and done. "Trump tapped into so much anger" means quite clearly that this anger exists and is not going to go away easily.

Some of this is due to racism. But a lot is due to the fact that the US is falling apart. And the stimulus packages that passed, being so overwhelmingly used to help out major corporations, many of which didn't even do the minimal job of retaining the workers they were supposed to retain, certainly did not help.

White Americans are coming to grips with the fact that economic realities that used to happen only to black and brown people, and to Muslims and gays and atheists, are now hitting them square in the face. And now republicans are likely to succeed in watering down the current stimulus package to the point that it is somewhat helpful, but only for a short time. Democrats only get 1 bill that can be passed via reconciliation.

McConnell and Manchin have done a good job of shielding Biden from a lot of the anger that will continue to brew as the US continues to falter. But the anger will be going somewhere. And she is correct that Biden needs to be quite aware of the anger - to mitigate it as much as possible, and let others like McConnell and Manchin channel it away from him when necessary.

Hard disagree here. This is *primarily* due to racism. People have been trying to tell everyone for years now that this was never about "economic insecurity." I'm actually embarrassed for these authors who can't quite suss out the common thread between wealthy white suburbanites and Proud Boys , and think they're warning of a "new" kind of American extremist, when it's the same old rotten racist American extremist (astronaut meme here). White supremacist movements will inevitably lead to violence because it's rooted in the same pathological sense of entitlement, NOT because people don't tiptoe around their racial derangement or pay proper attention to them. Its periodic insurgence* is a result of appeasement or the outright coddling they get, either from white supremacist political figures or Democrats who get suckered into imagining they're victims of circumstances and try to "reach out" and "understand" them. These are not people inexplicably voting against their own interests--as Isabel Wilkerson notes: “Why are people voting against their own interests, willing to elect right-wing oligarchs, forgo health insurance, risk contamination of the water and air? What had not been considered is the people voting this way were, in fact, voting their interest. Maintaining a caste system as it had always been was in their interest.” LBJ said something similar (and significantly more crudely) ~55 years ago. Republicans have been milking white people's self-inflicted psychic "wound" hard since (at least) Pat Buchanan encouraged Nixon to get more white voters by telling them how much black voters liked Democrats. This is an old ugly phenomenon whose lifeblood is narcissistic victim-whoring, and it should be hounded to the far reaches of society, until people learn better and are capable of rejoining humanity by demonstrating they can live in peace with their neighbors.

ETA: Meant to say resurgence, but I think I'll leave it.

[Felya]

Hard disagree here. This is *primarily* due to racism. People have been trying to tell everyone for years now that this was never about "economic insecurity." I'm actually embarrassed for these authors who can't quite suss out the common thread between wealthy white suburbanites and Proud Boys , and think they're warning of a "new" kind of American extremist, when it's the same old rotten racist American extremist (astronaut meme here). White supremacist movements will inevitably lead to violence because it's rooted in the same pathological sense of entitlement, NOT because people don't tiptoe around their racial derangement or pay proper attention to them. Its periodic insurgence is a result of appeasement or the outright coddling they get, either from white supremacist political figures or Democrats who get suckered into imagining they're victims of circumstances and try to "reach out" and "understand" them. These are not people inexplicably voting against their own interests--as Isabel Wilkerson notes: “Why are people voting against their own interests, willing to elect right-wing oligarchs, forgo health insurance, risk contamination of the water and air? What had not been considered is the people voting this way were, in fact, voting their interest. Maintaining a caste system as it had always been was in their interest.” LBJ said something similar (and significantly more crudely) ~55 years ago. Republicans have been milking white people's self-inflicted psychic "wound" hard since (at least) Pat Buchanan encouraged Nixon to get more white voters by telling them how much black voters liked Democrats. This is an old ugly phenomenon whose lifeblood is narcissistic victim-whoring, and it should be hounded to the far reaches of society, until people learn better and are capable of rejoining humanity by demonstrating they can live in peace with their neighbors.

Couple of things...

Until 1979, the glory of the confederacy, was being taught in southern schools. As in, these people were educated to believe this.

The success of things like The Welfare Queen character, justified being against social programs, in the name of self preservation.

The problem with addressing both of these issues, is that any attempt to do so, is seen as an attack... because you are kinda calling these people poor and stupid... while GOP reinforces them with real American like rhetoric, that will only exist if they vote GOP. How do you tell people, what they learned is wrong? How do you tell people, that they are the ones benefiting from programs, they have been convinced only benefits a different race? How do you do it, without a reply that ignores everything, to crawl into a ball of ‘I’m not racist’?

Edit: Isabel Wilkerson is projecting. She would be right, if the people she is talking about, were taught the same thing she was. That had the same social reinforcements of her opinions, as the people she is talking about. What if it is self preservation and voting in your self interest, but the actual thing we are voting, is different?

What if Joe Biden met the Joe Biden that Trump supporters have been convinced exists? I don’t think those two Joes would have anything to talk about and probably dislike each other. That’s not because they support some cast system, but if the same Joe Biden was running that you voted for, they would have voted for him as well. No one likes Trump’s Joe Biden... I wouldn’t have voted for that Joe either...

[Levelfive]

Couple of things...

Until 1979, the glory of the confederacy, was being taught in southern schools. As in, these people were educated to believe this.

The success of things like The Welfare Queen character, justified being against social programs, in the name of self preservation.

The problem with addressing both of these issues, is that any attempt to do so, is seen as an attack... because you are kinda calling these people poor and stupid... while GOP reinforces them with real American like rhetoric, that will only exist if they vote GOP. How do you tell people, what they learned is wrong? How do you tell people, that they are the ones benefiting from programs, they have been convinced only benefits a different race? How do you do it, without a reply that ignores everything, to crawl into a ball of ‘I’m not racist’?

I mean, if you're asking me, personally, I consider them irretrievable and largely irredeemable, unless and until they demonstrate otherwise. The burden is on them--if they can't be bothered, I'm not going to invest a scintilla of energy into trying to teach them they're wrong. Did you see this: Utah school allowing parents to opt students out of Black History Month curriculum? I'm done. I want them to have health care and a living wage and clean air and water, but it's utterly immaterial to me whether they come along, learn, participate, or entrench themselves further in their anti-democracy, anti-social, grievance-whoring delusions.

[Felya]

I mean, if you're asking me, personally, I consider them irretrievable and largely irredeemable, unless and until they demonstrate otherwise. The burden is on them--if they can't be bothered, I'm not going to invest a scintilla of energy into trying to teach them they're wrong. Did you see this: Utah school allowing parents to opt students out of Black History Month curriculum? I'm done. I want them to have health care and a living wage and clean air and water, but it's utterly immaterial to me whether they come along, learn, participate, or entrench themselves further in their anti-democracy, anti-social, grievance-whoring delusions.

I’d only agree with a caveat... they are fully capable of joining the real world. But... our infrastructure... like mental health and adult education... are simply not equipped to do it... and we as just randoms have no ability to do so... and a lot of our attempts seem to have the counter effect.

[Levelfive]

I’d only agree with a caveat... they are fully capable of joining the real world. But... our infrastructure... like mental health and adult education... are simply not equipped to do it... and we as just randoms have no ability to do so... and a lot of our attempts seem to have the counter effect.

A couple things--how exactly is Isabel Wilkerson "projecting"? Also, if your hypothesis were correct, that it's simply a matter of what's taught in schools, everyone in the south would hold the same views. But of course they don't. If it were truly economic, a majority of poor black people would have also responded positively Trump's "message," but of course they didn't. Trump won every single demographic of white people in 2016, including the rich and college educated. Anyone on the left telling themselves this is borne out of shaky economic or educational circumstances rather than racist appeals is not looking at the data. Also, when you say, "the welfare queen character" was successful, you are again talking almost exclusively from a white voter perspective, which is myopic. They didn't get conned--they opted in. To return, they can opt out.

[Felya]

A couple things--how exactly is Isabel Wilkerson "projecting"?

I explained it... It starts around where I said... if they had the same experience as she does, she would be right.

Also, if your hypothesis were correct, that it's simply a matter of what's taught in schools, everyone in the south would hold the same views.

Everyone or large enough majority to hold office and enable an entire news media?

But of course they don't.

Yeah, can you imagine 5 people taking the same class, then 2 of them knowing better, 5 years later?

If it were truly economic, a majority of poor black people would have also responded positively Trump's "message," but of course they didn't.

Doesn’t make sense... Why would poor black people, respond to someone pushing a haphazard version of the welfare queen? Obviously it didn’t resonate...

Trump won every single demographic of white people in 2016, including the rich and college educated. Anyone on the left telling themselves this is borne out of shaky economic or educational circumstances rather than racist appeals is not looking at the data.

If your hypothesis were correct, that all Trump supporters voted due to racism, everyone voting Trump, would hold the same views.

Also, when you say, "the welfare queen character" was successful, you are again talking almost exclusively from a white Republican voter perspective, which is myopic. They didn't get conned--they opted in. To return, they can opt out.

Yeah, sounds like not everyone learned the same thing.

[Levelfive]

I explained it... It starts around where I said... if they had the same experience as she does, she would be right.



Everyone or large enough majority to hold office and enable an entire news media?



Yeah, can you imagine 5 people taking the same class, then 2 of them knowing better, 5 years later?



Doesn’t make sense... Why would poor black people, respond to someone pushing a haphazard version of the welfare queen? Obviously it didn’t resonate...



If your hypothesis were correct, that all Trump supporters voted due to racism, everyone voting Trump, would hold the same views.



Yeah, sounds like not everyone learned the same thing.

1) No, you didn't explain it--"projecting" would mean she herself had the motive / interests she ascribed to white voters. Is that what you mean?

2) You're right, it doesn't make sense--that's one reason why the "economic insecurity" argument falls apart under scrutiny.

3) "I'm not a racist, I just voted for one." Mm'k

4) You are talking about white voters as if they're the default. That's myopic.

[Felya]

1) No, you didn't explain it--"projecting" would mean she herself had the motive / interests she ascribed to white voters. Is that what you mean?

No, I don’t know if she is white... I mean this:

She would be right, if the people she is talking about, were taught the same thing she was. That had the same social reinforcements of her opinions, as the people she is talking about. What if it is self preservation and voting in your self interest, but the actual thing we are voting, is different?

You are talking about white voters as if they're the default. That's myopic.

Your interpretation of what I said, being based on the voter’s race, is myopic...

[Levelfive]

No, I don’t know if she is white... I mean this:





Your interpretation of what I said, being based on the voter’s race, is myopic...

That doesn't explain how she's projecting, unless you're agreeing you used the wrong word. And if you weren't talking about voters' race, what did you mean by this?

Doesn’t make sense... Why would poor black people, respond to someone pushing a haphazard version of the welfare queen? Obviously it didn’t resonate...