What Lor'themar should have been done.

[Schattenlied]

you assert that this one guy's comment and a vid (I have yet to replicate) are enough to prove canon.

When the "one guy" is the lead narrative designer who literally wrote the lore for the events in question, yeah, I'm gonna take his word over your personal anecdotes of bugged NPC behavior for what is and isn't canon, especially since all lore that has been written around that event at the time and since conforms with that "one guy's" comment.

[mickybrighteyes]

When the "one guy" is the lead narrative designer who literally wrote the lore for the events in question, yeah, I'm gonna take his word over your personal anecdotes of bugged NPC behavior for what is and isn't canon.

Stonetalon and Battle for Undercity don't lend this idea much weight

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

to be fair. Legion control gave functional immortality and a seemingly limitless power cap beyond any mortal ken... well until we pulled that Legion xpac win out of nowhere and locked Sargeras up with the titans. I think the legion STILL retains it's effective immortality as well but it's now much slower?

Not really sure what that has to do with what I was saying.
The "immortality" only applies if you become a Demon and none of the Blood Elves did, unless you want to count those that trained under Illidan. And yes, Demons still have their "immortality" but it's lot slower. Sargeras was using Argus' soul to speed up their regeneration.

[Schattenlied]

Stonetalon and Battle for Undercity don't lend this idea much weight

Not relevant when the events in question have other lore written concerning them from that time and beyond that never make any mention of any kind of genocide or massacre, only imprisonment... Even when Lorthemar and Jaina and their forces come into confrontation outside the Throne of Thunder no one on either side mentioned any slaughter, only prisoners. If there was really some sort of massacre, someone would have mentioned it during that confrontation, or at some other point down the line, and no one ever does.

All of the existing lore conforms to the dev's statement of what happened, none of it conforms to yours.

[mickybrighteyes]

Not really sure what that has to do with what I was saying.
The "immortality" only applies if you become a Demon and none of the Blood Elves did, unless you want to count those that trained under Illidan. And yes, Demons are still have their "immortality" just a lot slower. Sargeras was using Argus' soul to speed up their regeneration.

Felblood Elves were a thing and is not limited to just illidan's illidari. they were present in areas related to Quel'danis and I don't think Illidan would have been training anyone beyond the illidari.

Demonic taint would have been how the Legion marked their forces because. The only group to not get made into demons eniterly seems to be the orcs who were just regarded as tools by Mannoroth and Kil'jaeden. Kael and his folk IF they went to the legion might have all come out looking like:


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Not relevant when the events in question have other lore written concerning them from that time and beyond that never make any mention of any kind of genocide or massacre, only imprisonment... Even when Lorthemar and Jaina and their forces come into confrontation outside the Throne of Thunder no one on either side mentioned any slaughter, only prisoners.

All of the existing lore conforms to the dev's statement of what happened, none of it conforms to yours.

I think it IS relevant because they are story events where the writer came in with comments after the fact that do not conform to the lore. The only difference is that the purge doesn't have any further place in lore as far as the writing is concerned. There's no going back to address anything beyond "Dalaran stood for the Alliance, the Sunreavers lost, and the blood elves were pushed out of the alliance talks"

As for the existing lore? I disagree... the only thing proving your case IS the dev quote which I'm saying is about as much proof as a writer saying Sylvanas planned the wrath gate.

edit:
first image wouldn't show up

[Ielenia]

If a Horde characters had even half as much crap as Jaina did that characters would been killed off in a raid fight. Jaina however avoided that fate because Blizzard is biased in the aliance favor.

Except none of Jaina's attacks were unprovoked. She only almost wiped out Orgrimmar because she was furious about what Garrosh did to Theramore. And she banished the blood elves from Dalaran because some members of the Sunreavers betrayed Dalaran twice and nothing was done for that, with Aethas even refusing to give up the traitor's name.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Felblood Elves were a thing and is not limited to just illidan's illidari. they were present in areas related to Quel'danis and I don't think Illidan would have been training anyone beyond the illidari.

Demonic taint would have been how the Legion marked their forces because. The only group to not get made into demons eniterly seems to be the orcs who were just regarded as tools by Mannoroth and Kil'jaeden. Kael and his folk IF they went to the legion might have all come out looking like:

Felbood Elves are not Demons.

[Grazrug]

Except none of Jaina's attacks were unprovoked. She only almost wiped out Orgrimmar because she was furious about what Garrosh did to Theramore. And she banished the blood elves from Dalaran because some members of the Sunreavers betrayed Dalaran twice and nothing was done for that, with Aethas even refusing to give up the traitor's name.

The Sunreavers did nothing. It was a Garrosh loyalist who put the portal to Dalaran. Stop lying.

[mickybrighteyes]

Felbood Elves are not Demons.

true the npc's we see are all classified as humanoid. Though they are also sporting the typical demonic features in very advanced states. I'd wager that if they succeeded in whatever plot they would have gotten similar treatment as the Eredar or at least so much as the night elves in that they would be changed into full on demons.

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Except none of Jaina's attacks were unprovoked. She only almost wiped out Orgrimmar because she was furious about what Garrosh did to Theramore. And she banished the blood elves from Dalaran because some members of the Sunreavers betrayed Dalaran twice and nothing was done for that, with Aethas even refusing to give up the traitor's name.

Aethas wasn't even in on the event, only learning anything about it right before Jaina walked in.

[TheFirstOnes]

"What Lor'themar should have been doing is to gather an attack force and free the Sunreavers out of their situation. That would have shown him to be a great leader." That...would've caused even more tensions to rise up, though.

[Grazrug]

"What Lor'themar should have been doing is to gather an attack force and free the Sunreavers out of their situation. That would have shown him to be a great leader." That...would've caused even more tensions to rise up, though.

A true leader always does the best thing for its people. Even if it is difficult to achieve. Lor'themar took the easy way and went up maximum appaesement level towards the alliance like the pathetic coward he is. I spit on him and all of the Horde council. I wish Blizzard would kill them all off,

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So he rather stays an appeasing and spineless alliance boot licker. Pathetic. I hope Kael'thas comes back and overthrow his government. Real blood elves would never bow to humans. Last time they wronged us we killed them.

Working with your enemy’s though diplomatic means is the only reasonable thing for a ruler to do when those who have wronged you are open to such things which the alliance were.

Getting prideful and getting more of your people killed for literally no reason is the mark of a poor leader.

[mickybrighteyes]

"What Lor'themar should have been doing is to gather an attack force and free the Sunreavers out of their situation. That would have shown him to be a great leader." That...would've caused even more tensions to rise up, though.

presence of tension isn't a good reason to refrain from action. This particular story is a problem because either way Lorthemar is dealing with escalation of force. Dalaran the typically neutral mage city turned and barred it's fangs on a group because of the covert actions of a minority. In the right setting that makes for a great set up to take in some political intrigue and infighting hat we get a very brief tease with how Varian talks to Jaina afterwards.

But the writing team seems to be stuck on de-escalation and working towards lower tension as the main way to show who's the better moral character.... a lesson that loses some of the impact when you remember who started the whole conflict in the first place.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

A true leader always does the best thing for its people. Even if it is difficult to achieve. Lor'themar took the easy way and went up maximum appaesement level towards the alliance like the pathetic coward he is. I spit on him and all of the Horde council. I wish Blizzard would kill them all off,

Wasn't the "easy way" was abandoning the rest of your people on your home world and sell yourself and your remaining people out to a higher power?

[mickybrighteyes]

Working with your enemy’s though diplomatic means is the only reasonable thing for a ruler to do when those who have wronged you are open to such things which the alliance were.

Getting prideful and getting more of your people killed for literally no reason is the mark of a poor leader.

You seem to forget that Jaina wasn't reasonable or looking to settle thigns diplomatically. Varian was, to be sure, but Varian and the alliance weren't the ones committing any wrongs in the events of Dalaran's Purge.

another issue is that "Dalaran" (i.e. Jaina) doesn't really admit any fault or wrongdoing on her part and the whole mess with the council and possible overreach of authority wasn't even part of canon discussion for a long time (if at all)

[Minikin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...avers/c7fbrdo/

There was no massacre... People who, in essence, violently resisted arrest, were the only ones who were killed... Jaina walking around Dalaran killing people at random during the scenario was unintended, and is not canon.

Holy crap that's damning evidence.

LuL

Won't stop OP from making a thread everyday about how much it's unfair.

[TheFirstOnes]

A true leader always does the best thing for its people. Even if it is difficult to achieve. Lor'themar took the easy way and went up maximum appaesement level towards the alliance like the pathetic coward he is. I spit on him and all of the Horde council. I wish Blizzard would kill them all off,

At the cost of what? More senseless action and more lives to be lost? M

[Minikin]

Everytime you post this I will chime in and say that what lies in the game still to this day holds more weight than one dev's off the cuff comment in a reddit thread.

edit: this is what... the 8 or 9th time now?

You chiming in <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Dave kossak sneezing something about wow.

[TheFirstOnes]

Holy crap that's damning evidence.

LuL

Won't stop OP from making a thread everyday about how much it's unfair.

Yeah, wasn't it stated that Jaina arresting the elves was the canon version of those events?

[Minikin]

If it means getting back at the alliance I am all in for it.

Well u won't be able to get back at anything.

Because you wouldn't be anything would you?

I mean if Sylvanas had her way: you wouldn't be able to do anything to the alliance you'd just be a mash of ash somewhere in the maw.

If Kael had his way: you'd be some battery in a soul engine or an imps play thing. Still wouldn't do anything to the alliance