Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

Those forty million people who get no money from Biden aren't going to care about "but what about Trump".

Which 40 million are we talking about here? And like...why not get mad that over 6 months passed without any stimulus movement under Trump? Why not get mad that Republicans absolutely gutted the second round of stimulus? Why is this all Bidens fault now, when it's the House/Senate who are literally writing and passing the bill?

They are going to be pissed, and Republicans are going to make damn sure to take advantage of that.

I mean...don't get me wrong, Dems going back on the $2K check is bullshit and plenty enough to criticize them loudly. But like...all Democrats have to do is remind people about how little action there was under Republicans. But hey, maybe that's a strong argument to try to get more progressive Democrats in the House/Senate, I'd be all for it.

It's TERRIBLE politics to give Republicans such a slam dunk on messaging for "Trump gave more money to you than Biden did".

Wat. It's not even been a month, my dude. Perspective, dude.

[Flower Milk]

Which 40 million are we talking about here? And like...why not get mad that over 6 months passed without any stimulus movement under Trump? Why not get mad that Republicans absolutely gutted the second round of stimulus? Why is this all Bidens fault now, when it's the House/Senate who are literally writing and passing the bill?



I mean...don't get me wrong, Dems going back on the $2K check is bullshit and plenty enough to criticize them loudly. But like...all Democrats have to do is remind people about how little action there was under Republicans. But hey, maybe that's a strong argument to try to get more progressive Democrats in the House/Senate, I'd be all for it.



Wat. It's not even been a month, my dude. Perspective, dude.

See the graph I posted above. If Biden/Congress goes through with narrowing the stimulus down to people making less than $50k, that is FORTY MILLION PEOPLE who will have received stimulus money under Trump and get nothing under Biden.

That is just handing Republicans a slam dunk winning message on a silver platter. That is just blatantly throwing the midterms to Republicans and maybe even the presidency in 2024. It's literally the definition of political suicide.

[Edge-]

See the graph I posted above. If Biden/Congress goes through with narrowing the stimulus down to people making less than $50k

That's Manchin's proposal though, and there's not even necessarily support for it. Yellen's splitting the difference at $60K, but we'll see if the Legislature moves either way.

that is FORTY MILLION PEOPLE who will have received stimulus money under Trump and get nothing under Biden.

Yes, but do they need it? Don't get me wrong, give money to everyone who needs it. But like, I don't need it, I'll just donate mine again.

That is just handing Republicans a slam dunk winning message on a silver platter.

Sure, if you ignore the 400K dead due to Republicans failure to lead.
Sure, if you ignore that they basically stood around and did nothing following the passage of the first stimulus, while Democrats were quickly back with a second round and actively negotiating for months through the tail end of the last administration.

That is literally just blatantly throwing the midterms to Republicans and maybe even the presidency in 2024.

Damn, one month in and the next election is already decided. Remember when presidents had 100 days to get their big ticket shit done before midterm season hit? Now they don't even get a fuckin month to roll out 4 years of policy, what a time to be alive.

[Flower Milk]

That's Manchin's proposal though, and there's not even necessarily support for it. Yellen's splitting the difference at $60K, but we'll see if the Legislature moves either way.



Yes, but do they need it? Don't get me wrong, give money to everyone who needs it. But like, I don't need it, I'll just donate mine again.



Sure, if you ignore the 400K dead due to Republicans failure to lead.
Sure, if you ignore that they basically stood around and did nothing following the passage of the first stimulus, while Democrats were quickly back with a second round and actively negotiating for months through the tail end of the last administration.



Damn, one month in and the next election is already decided. Remember when presidents had 100 days to get their big ticket shit done before midterm season hit? Now they don't even get a fuckin month to roll out 4 years of policy, what a time to be alive.

It's not just Manchin's proposal by the way.

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/statu...15840723968003

New: 9 Democratic senators co-sponsor a budget amendment that would “ensure upper-income taxpayers are not eligible” for the next round of stimulus payments.

Manchin
Sinema
Hassan
Tester
Shaheen
King*
Hickenlooper
Warner
Kelly

(*independent, caucuses w/Dems)

Yes they need it, this is STIMULUS money, to stimulate the economy, that's the entire point. There are people who went out and canvassed for Biden/Democrats on the message that Democrats were going to immediately get people much needed stimulus money, and if this goes through, those people are going to feel like they lied to people, and the people who voted for Democrats will feel lied to. Even if you still end up getting stimulus money because you fall under the $50k threshold (like me), you will still know one of those forty million people who got screwed over and needed the money (I do).

And just FYI, most nurses and teachers make above $50k, so that would be screwing over the very people who have been doing the hard work during the pandemic. And all those suburban voters who won the 2018 midterms and 2020 election for Democrats/Biden.

[draynay]

Damn, one month in and the next election is already decided. Remember when presidents had 100 days to get their big ticket shit done before midterm season hit? Now they don't even get a fuckin month to roll out 4 years of policy, what a time to be alive.

Flower Milk has been bitching about Biden since at least December, couldn't even wait for inauguration before digging his grave.

[Flower Milk]

Flower Milk has been bitching about Biden since at least December, couldn't even wait for inauguration before digging his grave.

If you want to defend throwing 40 million people under the bus and giving them no stimulus money, especially nurses and teachers, good fucking luck with that. You can rationalize it all you want with "you just hate Biden this is fine", but that is quite literally political suicide no matter how you frame it.

I do dislike Joe Biden, and I honestly expected him to do some things I disagreed with. But this legitimately exceeded my expectations of how awful this idea is. Like I am genuinely flabberghasted at how ridiculous this proposal is, I didn't even think Joe Biden/Democrats would be this bad, if they do actually go through with this.

[Edge-]

Yes they need it, this is STIMULUS money, to stimulate the economy, that's the entire point. There are people who went out and canvassed for Biden/Democrats on the message that Democrats were going to immediately get people much needed stimulus money, and if this goes through, those people are going to feel like they lied to people, and the people who voted for Democrats will feel lied to. Even if you still end up getting stimulus money because you fall under the $50k threshold (like me), you will still know one of those forty million people who got screwed over and needed the money (I do).

I do love that the whole Biden/Georgia campaigns were apparently boiled down to, "$2K stimulus checks" and nothing more, apparently. I get that it's the most immediate issue, but I think a LOT of folks voted for Biden and Ossoff/Wernock because of more than just the $2K checks.

Also, that apparently these checks weren't needed all last year until around October when it became an issue and it was still Democrats fault back then, even though they'd passed a second round of stimulus in the House and were actively negotiating for months to try to get a bill through while Republicans twiddled their thumbs.

[Omega10]

It's not just Manchin's proposal by the way.

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/statu...15840723968003


Yes they need it, this is STIMULUS money, to stimulate the economy, that's the entire point. There are people who went out and canvassed for Biden/Democrats on the message that Democrats were going to immediately get people much needed stimulus money, and if this goes through, those people are going to feel like they lied to people, and the people who voted for Democrats will feel lied to. Even if you still end up getting stimulus money because you fall under the $50k threshold (like me), you will still know one of those forty million people who got screwed over and needed the money (I do).

And just FYI, most nurses and teachers make above $50k, so that would be screwing over the very people who have been doing the hard work during the pandemic. And all those suburban voters who won the 2018 midterms and 2020 election for Democrats/Biden.

Parts of the big business community are going all out to water down the stimulus package as much as possible. Basically, if they don't the economy really will blossom and republicans will disappear in 2022. The problem is: Biden does not have the power to circumvent this. The best that can be done is getting as much through as possible.

And yeah, screwing over nurses and teachers is really really not good I suspect that republicans and their backers are quite aware of this, and are working hard to maximize the population of people that are left out. It's not like 65k is that huge of a salary even in many rural areas.

- - - Updated - - -

I do love that the whole Biden/Georgia campaigns were apparently boiled down to, "$2K stimulus checks" and nothing more, apparently. I get that it's the most immediate issue, but I think a LOT of folks voted for Biden and Ossoff/Wernock because of more than just the $2K checks.

Also, that apparently these checks weren't needed all last year until around October when it became an issue and it was still Democrats fault back then, even though they'd passed a second round of stimulus in the House and were actively negotiating for months to try to get a bill through while Republicans twiddled their thumbs.

The $2k stimulus checks WERE a big deal. All four Senate candidates were ONE HUNDRED PERCENT in favor of it, and all four candidates aired a lot of ads talking about their commitment to these immediate stimulus checks. And they all really did mean $2k, not $1.4k.

[Flower Milk]

I do love that the whole Biden/Georgia campaigns were apparently boiled down to, "$2K stimulus checks" and nothing more, apparently. I get that it's the most immediate issue, but I think a LOT of folks voted for Biden and Ossoff/Wernock because of more than just the $2K checks.

Also, that apparently these checks weren't needed all last year until around October when it became an issue and it was still Democrats fault back then, even though they'd passed a second round of stimulus in the House and were actively negotiating for months to try to get a bill through while Republicans twiddled their thumbs.

I'm sure if you just repeat "Republicans are bad" over and over again those forty million people who might get screwed over for stimulus money by Democrats, especially nurses and teachers, will definitely still vote for Democrats in the midterms. It seems like a solid defense for screwing over so many people.

And I just wanna say, I only even heard about this story from my liberal friends who were outraged about it. Not my leftist friends, my *liberal* friends, especially the ones who live in the suburbs and make over $50k.

[Edge-]

https://www.manchin.senate.gov/imo/m...d%20EIP.pdf?cb

Let's remember what this whinging is about.

A resolution that passed 99-1 allowing the Chairman of the Committee on the Budget of the Senate to to revise allocations.

His name is Senator Bernie Sanders, Independent from Vermont.

So...should we fear Sanders suddenly jumping on the pro-austerity train?

[Flower Milk]

Parts of the big business community are going all out to water down the stimulus package as much as possible. Basically, if they don't the economy really will blossom and republicans will disappear in 2022. The problem is: Biden does not have the power to circumvent this. The best that can be done is getting as much through as possible.

And yeah, screwing over nurses and teachers is really really not good I suspect that republicans and their backers are quite aware of this, and are working hard to maximize the population of people that are left out. It's not like 65k is that huge of a salary even in many rural areas.

- - - Updated - - -



The $2k stimulus checks WERE a big deal. All four Senate candidates were ONE HUNDRED PERCENT in favor of it, and all four candidates aired a lot of ads talking about their commitment to these immediate stimulus checks. And they all really did mean $2k, not $1.4k.

I fail to believe that the leader of the Democratic party can't rally the entire party to get people like Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema to back off this narrowing proposal because it will most assuredly screw them over in the midterms. Joe Manchin is literally retiring and not running for re-election, too, he has no reason to do this besides just to be a huge asshole.

Kamala Harris went to WV and Arizona earlier to put pressure on Manchin/Sinema to back the stimulus bill, it was such a good idea and it worked. If Biden/Democrats were smart, they would be doing stunts like that again to get these shitty moderates to drop this shit and stop ruining their midterm chances, maybe they will. Also just as an aside, WV voters back the stimulus (without the narrowing) by like 80%, and the Republican WV Governor also said that they needed to "go big" on stimulus. There is literally no reason at all for Joe Manchin to pull this shit unless he is actively trying to sabotage the Democratic Party and Democrats are just letting one/a handful of Senators sabotage them. If they actually let this stimulus narrowing go through, it would look like they're not even *trying*.

[draynay]

If you want to defend...

But you see, I can't take you seriously, its just wailing to me. That was my point, you're just gonna wail about whatever and its wasted effort to engage with such a person.

[Edge-]

Joe Manchin is literally retiring and not running for re-election, too, he has no reason to do this besides just to be a huge asshole.

He is? He won his election in 2018 and will be there until 2024. Has he said he's not running again? Because I haven't seen that.

[D Luniz]

I fail to believe that the leader of the Democratic party can't rally the entire party to get people like Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema to back off this narrowing proposal because it will most assuredly screw them over in the midterms. Joe Manchin is literally retiring and not running for re-election, too, he has no reason to do this besides just to be a huge asshole.

Kamala Harris went to WV and Arizona earlier to put pressure on Manchin/Sinema to back the stimulus bill, it was such a good idea and it worked. If Biden/Democrats were smart, they would be doing stunts like that again to get these shitty moderates to drop this shit and stop ruining their midterm chances, maybe they will. Also just as an aside, WV voters back the stimulus (without the narrowing) by like 80%, and the Republican WV Governor also said that they needed to "go big" on stimulus. There is literally no reason at all for Joe Manchin to pull this shit unless he is actively trying to sabotage the Democratic Party and Democrats are just letting one/a handful of Senators sabotage them. If they actually let this stimulus narrowing go through, it would look like they're not even *trying*.

An often-used quote when talking about democrats

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."-Will Rogers

and you cant go 6 months without something happening that will have every news site bringing that quote up
The democrats greatest strength and weakness is the diversity of the party.

[Flower Milk]

He is? He won his election in 2018 and will be there until 2024. Has he said he's not running again? Because I haven't seen that.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...es-senate-exit

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) is eyeing a possible exit from the Senate, and his decision could be a significant factor in which party controls the majority in 2021.

In moments of frustration, the centrist senator has gone so far as to tell colleagues he may leave the upper chamber before the end of this Congress, or after the 2020 elections.

[D Luniz]

He is? He won his election in 2018 and will be there until 2024. Has he said he's not running again? Because I haven't seen that.

back in summer of 2019 he was considering retiring to run for governor
been no news on that since then

[Draco-Onis]

I fail to believe that the leader of the Democratic party can't rally the entire party

Have you been in a coma for the past few decades? democrats are not good Nazi soldiers (literally these days) like republicans never have been. Their conference is diverse and people have different opinions if our system wasn't so lopsided we would have multiple parties to represent all their views.

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...es-senate-exit

So he's considering retiring after this term. He hasn't "literally" said he's retiring. A year ago, and he's not running for governor so that retirement is even more theoretical.

Also, check the actual text of the amendment you're complaining about. Seems the only person you have to worry about is Chairman of the Budget Committee, Bernie Sanders.

[Flower Milk]

An often-used quote when talking about democrats

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."-Will Rogers

and you cant go 6 months without something happening that will have every news site bringing that quote up
The democrats greatest strength and weakness is the diversity of the party.

There is a Senate whip, Dick Durbin, for a reason. Nancy Pelosi repeatedly whips the entirety of the Democrats in the House, but somehow Dick Durbin + the entire rest of the party is unable to do the same, even if it would greatly hurt their midterm chances.

I just don't buy it. Especially because Kamala Harris literally just visited WV and Arizona to put pressure on Sinema/Manchin to even just support the stimulus bill, and it worked. I was actually pleasantly surprised by that move, I'm not a fan of Harris but that was very smart and I wish Democrats pulled more moves like that.

- - - Updated - - -

So he's considering retiring after this term. He hasn't "literally" said he's retiring. A year ago, and he's not running for governor so that retirement is even more theoretical.

Also, check the actual text of the amendment you're complaining about. Seems the only person you have to worry about is Chairman of the Budget Committee, Bernie Sanders.

Yeah it's definitely Bernie Sanders that's doing this, totally. That's why he's been actively screaming on every media outlet possible to not narrow the stimulus down because it would screw over Democrats in the midterms, because he totally actually supports it, unlike these other 9 Senators like Manchin and Sinema.

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/st...04082427674625

Unbelievable. There are some Dems who want to lower the income eligibility for direct payments from $75,000 to $50,000 for individuals, and $150,000 to $100,000 for couples. In other words, working class people who got checks from Trump would not get them from Biden. Brilliant!

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/st...87241035767808

It is absurd that some Democrats think we should tell a worker making $52,000 a year that they are "too rich" and cannot get the full $2000 benefit we promised. It makes no sense to me, nor do I think it makes sense to the American people.

[Edge-]

Yeah it's definitely Bernie Sanders that's doing this, totally. That's why he's been actively screaming on every media outlet possible to not narrow the stimulus down because it would screw over Democrats in the midterms, because he totally actually supports it, unlike these other 9 Senators like Manchin and Sinema.

https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/st...04082427674625


https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/st...87241035767808

Except I didn't blame Sanders? I simply said that if you read the text of the actual amendment, it simply gives him, as the Chair of the Senate Budget Committee, power to set limits so as not to increase the debt. It doesn't say he MUST, but that he MAY.

Which isn't to blame him, but to point out that the amendment didn't actually really do/change anything. And that proposals from folk like Manchine remain just proposals, and that we'll have to see where this nets out. This is the negotiation process for the bill now. Even with Democrats ignoring Republicans, the Democratic caucus is still pretty big yo. I hope they don't actually move ahead with more strict limits, but either way my check is getting donated anyways.