[TV] WandaVision

[Al Gorefiend]

The latest episode got me thinking about casting Magneto for the MCU, not as Wanda's father but as an ally so that they can found the Brotherhood of Mutants and become interesting and nuanced villains in the MCU.

Magneto can't be a Jewish Holocaust survivor unless he is to be in his 90s though, and I feel that the genocide experience is integral to motivating his approach vis-à-vis humanity in opposition to the one pursued by Xavier. So that got me thinking that they should cast a Vietnamese or Vietnamese American actor as Magneto in the MCU.

Somebody born circa 1960, who could then have the backstory of a survivor of the Cambodian genocide of the late 1970s. Little did I know that a Vietnamese Magneto already exists in the comics in the form of Erik Luu (Earth-1111). So maybe not such a far fetched idea, then?

Magneto as a holocaust survivor just won't work anymore. It was a stretch even in the 00s as he'd be 60+

I agree he'll need a new origin story for the MCU, not necessarily a survivor of a genocide but for whatever reason develops a disgust for humanity and goes villain.

[ProphetFlume]

Magneto as a holocaust survivor just won't work anymore. It was a stretch even in the 00s as he'd be 60+

I agree he'll need a new origin story for the MCU, not necessarily a survivor of a genocide but for whatever reason develops a disgust for humanity and goes villain.

Meh if they wanted it they could find a way. The comics managed it by de-aging him near the start of Claremont's run.

[s_bushido]

Magneto as a holocaust survivor just won't work anymore. It was a stretch even in the 00s as he'd be 60+

Why. It would be much better for them to toss some throwaway line about how his mutation has slowed his aging than it would be to lose such a huge element of his character.

Or...you know...just having him pulled from a timeline/universe where he simply isn't that old yet.

I have no idea if any of this will even lead to mutants being rolled into the MCU, but if they are, there's going to have to be a lot of retconning anyway. Making sure that Magneto (if he shows up) is an appropriate age seems trivial.

[Ophenia]

Magneto's age sounds completely irrelevant to me. First, because nothing'd make sense at all if they pull Quicksilver from FoX-Men, as this Quicksilver and MCU Wanda are not really the same age to begin with, and Quicksilver will already jump a few years onward (Dark Phoenix occurred when, 1992 ?).

Then, because for this case, the "rule of cool" will prevail, as usual. Don't forget Peggy Carter is also wildly inconsistent throughout several movies (she's supposedly 30 years older when we see her in New Jersey in 1970 than during Captain 1, so probably in her 60s...).

Back on topic, we've decided to jump in on WandaVision, even though we wanted to wait for all episodes to be available because spoilers became really difficult to dodge, and damn, we're hooked. Plenty of questions raised, the atmosphere is hella tense and actors are doing a great job. Everytime Wanda becomes serious, you know anything can happen. And Vision becoming a bit... angry ? I'm in.

Can't wait to learn a bit more in details what's happening, Wanda seemed dead serious when she said she doesn't know how it began, and the Hex seems a lot more technology than "magic".

[Nerraw]

Then, because for this case, the "rule of cool" will prevail, as usual. Don't forget Peggy Carter is also wildly inconsistent throughout several movies (she's supposedly 30 years older when we see her in New Jersey in 1970 than during Captain 1, so probably in her 60s...).

She was in her early-mid 20s in Cap 1, so she'd be around 50 in 1970. And then coming up on 70 in the Ant-Man 1 flashback. And then dead at ~95-ish. Not unreasonable.

[eschatological]

On the video from security camera the body is shown dismembered on the table so I highly doubt it's them.

But screw Vision, she's just snagged Quicksilver straight from the FOX-Men universe. Looks like her reach is far beyond the universe of her own and it's time for Dr. Strange to intervene

I honestly think it's the big bad who snatched Pietro as wish fulfillment for Wanda. Before, with her twins, they ask if she has a brother, and she says, "I do, he's very far away, and it makes me sad." A good writer/producer/fanfiction author would see that and say....hey, let's get Pietro in here. Problem is, she's lying, her brother is dead, so they need to snatch a different Pietro because the power of the producer is that big. Someone who is live editing this television show. Like I pointed out in the previous beekeeper scene, we see Wanda literally rewind time. But on the broadcast to Darcy, it's just a jump cut in the broadcast. That, to me, points that someone else broadcasting the show.

I'm not sure Wanda ever meant to "broadcast" her show, it's just something she takes comfort in, a way of coping.

- - - Updated - - -

Very minor Agents of SHILED spoilers: My personal, and extremely unlikely, theory, is that it's Norm. The same actor briefly played a guy who was being blackmailed into working for Cybertek (a Hydra subsidiary of sorts) in Agents of SHIELD at the end of season 1. The "Incentives Program" was basically Cybertek kidnapping loved ones to force people into working for them on their shady shit.

It is then revealed in season 5 that the Cybertek scientists have since faked their deaths and/or gone into hiding. It would line up with him going into witness protection if he gave testimony after that whole thing. Hydra remnants would probably have his name on a list. And him being so worried about his sister could imply that she was the one held hostage back then.

I don't think it can be Norm. Jimmy already has his full name and named him with some Indian name, with seemingly a history in Westview. I feel like if this was his informant that started the whole investigation, there'd be a throwaway line indicating that. Plus, when Vision broke the hold over him temporarily, he was immediately like, "Where's my phone, I need to call my sister," something he wouldn't be able to (or be told not to do, at least) if he was in WitSec.

Unless you meant Herb, the neighbor, in which case, shame on you for mixing up the only two male PoC.

- - - Updated - - -

So which late 80's / 90's sitcom do you guys reckon episode 6 will base its intro theme on? Considering around this time, dysfunctional family sitcoms started to break through with shows like The Simpsons and Married with Children, do you reckon one along those lines will be it? It could represent Wanda starting to lose control over the reality (if she had full control over it in the first place) as the trailers seem to hint at.

Maybe Seinfeld, or if she keeps it saccharine sweet, Friends. Maybe Frasier or Cheers? I could see Vision as Ted Danson's character, and her as the girl before Kirstie Alley.

Another thought: as the decades get into the 00s and 10s, will Wanda's show meet the standards of those shows, which started a lot more Dark Comedy and fucked up psychosis episodes? Can you imagine an episode of this show styled on Nurse Jackie, or Always Sunny in Philadelphia, or Curb Your Enthusiasm? Or will she keep it saccharine sweet and make it like......Big Bang Theory, or Modern Family?

- - - Updated - - -

They could just say the mutation slowed or reversed Magnetos aging some and still use the Holocaust

I think the issue is everyone still wants Sir Ian to play Magneto, and that dude is still gonna be old and eventually die, regardless. Maybe they de-age him (which is still iffy tech) or do a Tarkin-hologram (still iffy tech), but idk.

[Endus]

I honestly think it's the big bad who snatched Pietro as wish fulfillment for Wanda. Before, with her twins, they ask if she has a brother, and she says, "I do, he's very far away, and it makes me sad." A good writer/producer/fanfiction author would see that and say....hey, let's get Pietro in here. Problem is, she's lying, her brother is dead, so they need to snatch a different Pietro because the power of the producer is that big. Someone who is live editing this television show. Like I pointed out in the previous beekeeper scene, we see Wanda literally rewind time. But on the broadcast to Darcy, it's just a jump cut in the broadcast. That, to me, points that someone else broadcasting the show.

I'm not sure Wanda ever meant to "broadcast" her show, it's just something she takes comfort in, a way of coping.

I'm pretty darned confident in my positions that;

Spoiler: 

A> Wanda was being honest when she said she didn't start this.
B> I think the Hex is something she found, and is trying to use.
C> I think her goal was to rebirth Vision. Something about the Hex made her think it could do that.
D> I don't think she expected kids. That said, I think she will murder everything to protect those kids now that she has them. Even if they blink out of existence like a fever dream that never was.
E> I don't actually think the sitcom thing is Wanda, at least not consciously. It's too affected, too weird, and she's not really natural in there, and they've given us a bunch of situations where she comes back to "herself" to demonstrate that. I think that's the Hex.
E> I think Wanda's been very much in overt control of the Hex the whole time. She knows what's happening, and why, and she's demonstrated she can walk right out of there any time she feels like it. That's why she can "rewind", though that rewind showed zero trace of her magic (it ALWAYS, even in the show outside of the silly Bewitched special effects moments, has that characteristic red glow).
F> I don't think Wanda is in complete control. Shit keeps happening she's not expecting. The moments the system breaks down, she seems lost, unlike the times when SWORD is trying to get in, where she is FRIGHTENINGLY responsive. I don't think she deliberately ensnared and enslaved an entire town for her Vision project, though she's unwilling to stop it now that the "damage is done", so to speak.
G> Case in point; Pietro. If it were Wanda 100%, she wouldn't have "re-cast" her brother with someone else. Not when she's trying to hard to rebuild Vision exactly like he was. While we definitely need more info to figure out "what the hell", I don't think Wanda's responsible, other than as her subconscious yearnings that something else​ is trying to respond to.

I still like my position that the Hex is some form of reality-bending AI or other technological system with another controller. That Wanda thinks she's in control, but isn't, really, and the real villain has yet to appear (or, more likely, already has appeared and just hasn't Scooby-Dooed their mask off yet.) This is a lot more hypothetical, though, and I'm largely basing that on aesthetics, and those aesthetics could just be "broadcast TV" aesthetics.

I am endlessly entertained by the name "The Hex", because it's both hexagonal, AND they think it's Wanda, who uses magic, which can be called a "hex". They've only made that first link in the show, and I really don't know how much of this is meant as red herring.

[eschatological]

A couple points against your point E:

1) I think Wanda using her real accent when she steps outside of the Hex, and affecting a fake American accent in the sitcoms, speaks to the idea that she wants the sitcom thing, and is manifesting it.
2) When Agnes breaks character in the babysitting scene, Wanda tries to brush it off and act like it didn't happen, also indicating that she didn't want to break immersion because this is what she wants. Which is something she explicitly says to SWORD when she comes outside: "I have everything I want." Now, maybe she isn't breaking immersion to keep Vision from questioning too much, that's the other option.

[Endus]

A couple points against your point E:

1) I think Wanda using her real accent when she steps outside of the Hex, and affecting a fake American accent in the sitcoms, speaks to the idea that she wants the sitcom thing, and is manifesting it.

But why would she even bother? She's not ashamed of being Sokovian. And it's not like there weren't accented people in early sitcoms; Desi Arnaz as Ricky Ricardo in I Love Lucy is a really obvious example. It's a weird affectation and I don't see why she'd bother. I may be wrong, it just doesn't make clear sense to me.

2) When Agnes breaks character in the babysitting scene, Wanda tries to brush it off and act like it didn't happen, also indicating that she didn't want to break immersion because this is what she wants. Which is something she explicitly says to SWORD when she comes outside: "I have everything I want." Now, maybe she isn't breaking immersion to keep Vision from questioning too much, that's the other option.

She definitely doesn't want to break the immersion, but that may be because she sees that immersion as necessary for Vision's "development" or whatever. But she's ALSO not swiftly jumping on those breaks. There's a weird confusion from her about them, and we don't see the same when she sees something from SWORD, other than that first toy helicopter/drone and that may have been because it was in color in a black-and-white world more than anything. Also her first hint that SWORD was trying to get in; she may have recognized the logo and was trying to work out what its presence meant. But the beekeeper and Rambeau and the drone attack? No confusion at all, no uncertainty. It's the duality of those two types of response that makes me think it's not just one "thing" going on, here; I think Wanda's totally in her element telling SWORD to fuck right off, I think she's far less in her element when the Hex starts bugging out around her, and I think that dichotomy is meant to indicate that she's not really in control of the Hex.

Obviously speculative and I'm basing a lot of this on principles of good writing and the like; when you've got a repeated difference in response like that, the safe bet is that there's a reason, rather than the character's just written inconsistently.

[Nerraw]

I don't think it can be Norm. Jimmy already has his full name and named him with some Indian name, with seemingly a history in Westview. I feel like if this was his informant that started the whole investigation, there'd be a throwaway line indicating that. Plus, when Vision broke the hold over him temporarily, he was immediately like, "Where's my phone, I need to call my sister," something he wouldn't be able to (or be told not to do, at least) if he was in WitSec.

Unless you meant Herb, the neighbor, in which case, shame on you for mixing up the only two male PoC.

Funny.

This is the guy I'm talking about.

[eschatological]

Funny.

This is the guy I'm talking about.

But like I said, Jimmy already identified him as Abilash Tandon, and said nothing to others (including Monica, who knows he's there looking for a WitSec protectee) about him being his protectee. Hell, he's watched the whole TV show and hasn't noted his protectee at all.

Maybe there's a clue in the name, and Jimmy is holding back?

[Nerraw]

But like I said, Jimmy already identified him as Abilash Tandon, and said nothing to others (including Monica, who knows he's there looking for a WitSec protectee) about him being his protectee. Hell, he's watched the whole TV show and hasn't noted his protectee at all.

Maybe there's a clue in the name, and Jimmy is holding back?

The witness is, supposedly, not linked to any of the ongoing craziness, it was simply a way for Woo to be there when Monica showed up. Doubt he'd out them for something completely unrelated.

But like I said, extremely unlikely pet theory.

[qwerty123456]

If Wanda created it why would it be American tv shows? I mean unless she binged American tv shows to learn her American accent and became addicted to all these old shows shouldn't her happy tv memories be from Sokovian shows? Like even if she saw an American tv show or two growing up she hated America and Tony Stark up until she became an Avenger.

[eschatological]

If Wanda created it why would it be American tv shows? I mean unless she binged American tv shows to learn her American accent and became addicted to all these old shows shouldn't her happy tv memories be from Sokovian shows? Like even if she saw an American tv show or two growing up she hated America and Tony Stark up until she became an Avenger.

American TV permeates all sorts of third world countries.

All my Indian cousins are obsessed with American TV. When I lived in Africa, they binged Portuguese telenovelas and American TV.

[qwerty123456]

Was her hate for America or just Tony Stark and, by extension, the Avengers?

There was Anti-American protests in Sokovia so I assume she also hated America.

American TV permeates all sorts of third world countries.

All my Indian cousins are obsessed with American TV. When I lived in Africa, they binged Portuguese telenovelas and American TV.

But were your Indian cousins bombed by Americans leaving them orphans at 10 years old?

Didn't it take them days to get out of their apartment building? I highly doubt you are going to be watching a bunch of American tv after something so horrible. Especially when you organize protests and join an evil organization to get revenge.

[Stardrift]

You're inserting your own prejudices and triggers into everything you see. Sorry that there are more minorities in roles where they aren't subservient to every white man in the show, since that appears to be your only real complaint.

Love the way you twist things.

I'm supportive of minorities being in prominent roles. I'm unsupportive of minority actors being given roles that are all about their skin colour/gender.

Unless you're against the idea that people are more than their skin colours, I don't understand why you're not with me on this one.

- - - Updated - - -

Jesus Christ.

The only one who has been demonized on the show so far has been Wanda. Because she's acting villainous. Other than that, you have an instance of a couple people calling their boss a dick. I'm sure that's never happened before in the history of humanity.

While I'd love to see it the way you do, every single show out there right now coincidentally does the same thing. Group of minorities battling against villains who are strictly, coincidentally all white.

You'd expect more from people who preach skin colour doesn't matter, judge based off of actions instead of looks. It's only been getting worse. We aren't progressing, we're just turning the tables lol

Just wish there was more to these characters than "we're trying to save Wanda and vision but this white man keeps being arrogant and making stupid decisions"

[rhorle]

I'm supportive of minorities being in prominent roles. I'm unsupportive of minority actors being given roles that are all about their skin colour/gender.

None of the roles were given because of the color of their skin or their gender though. Nor are the roles in the show all about the color of their skin. You are the one that keeps making a big deal about that topic but seem to be self aware enough to not actually commit to the bullshit race arguments you keep trying to make.

- - - Updated - - -

Just wish there was more to these characters than "we're trying to save Wanda and vision but this white man keeps being arrogant and making stupid decisions"

Lol. What are you even talking about? Characters of color can only have a non-white enemy other wise it is racist? That is just dumb. Marvel hasn't even done "only white villans" so I'm not every sure where you think you are getting a atom of legitimacy to that type of argument.

[eschatological]

A reminder that discussions of perceived social agendas is off-topic for this subforum. If you wish to discuss your opinion on such things, GenOT lies in wait for you to soak up your......thoughts? Ideas? I don't know, these don't seem to meet that bar to me, but they discuss all sorts of shit over there.

[ProphetFlume]

Was her hate for America or just Tony Stark and, by extension, the Avengers?

Stark. There was anti-captain america graffiti but for the most part the hate she harbors is for stark. I watched AoU a couple days ago but can’t remember if it was even said America bombed Sokovia. Starks weapons had made their way to other armies.

Another thing I noticed in AoU was they show her and Pietro protesting, and in the show they used the same shot but cut Aaron Taylor Johnson out.

[Ophenia]

She was in her early-mid 20s in Cap 1, so she'd be around 50 in 1970. And then coming up on 70 in the Ant-Man 1 flashback. And then dead at ~95-ish. Not unreasonable.

What I meant is that she has the exact same face at 20 (Cap 1) than 30 years later (Endgame). No way her face is the face of a 50+yo woman in Endgame, so that's why I wouldn't be bothered by a Fassbender playing a 50+yo Magneto.

Hell, Dark Phoenix (last appearance of this Quicksilver) happens in 1992, while Days of Future Past occur in 1973. So Quicksilver in 2023 (because that's when Wandavision occurs after all) should be what, 60 years old ? That's assuming he was ten in DoFP.

So yeah, I'm banking on the rule of cool here, and either this Quicksilver cast is just a nod to Fox's X-Men without any link, or they just don't give a fuck and may cast whoever they want as Magneto, even if the actor is 12 years old