[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Katchii]

I wonder what melee class they have in store, I'm a bit surprised they apparently didn't even feel confident enough to put it in the trailer.

I don't think confidence had anything to do with it. They know perfectly well what it is and what it's going to look and play like at this point, they're just stringing us along and holding back titillating information on purpose so they have some juicy info to drop in May. They've been doing this for a while.

Also not sure what archetype they currently lack, even looking at FF classes. Beastmaster(urgh)? Fencer? Mystic Knight (that would mostly be a red mage..)? Rune Knight? .. Freelancer, lol? Seeing how they took Sage into a completely different direction it can probably be anything.

They're not really missing an archetype, though there's plenty of inspiration to draw from if you look at other games or even FFXI (Really only three left they could get from there; Corsair, Geomancer and Rune Fencer), but based on the shirts Yoshi-P was wearing (which have historically been teasers themselves), the rumors are circling that it's a Scythe wielding class, possibly a Reaper, a death themed class. Beastmaster and Puppetmaster have been discussed as the next limited job, which would be cool I think.

I also have to say this is the first FFXIV trailer in a long time that didn't really do much for me. Maybe because the focus was on Paladin and then not even going all out in some way to show it off, maybe it was because the twins rank the lowest for me among the scions. Beats me. Either way, not really that hyped. The sound of a squish and losing legacy capability is also not doing much to entice me.

Same here. Was way too vague on what was going on and where it was going to be, all I know is that shit blows up, it will have Fandaniel and Zenos, that it had something to do with the moon, Alphinaud had floaty technology thingies and the main character is a Paladin...for some reason. Nothing about Radz-at-Han, Thavnair, or Garlemald that I could see. Maybe after we play through the last patch of Shadowbringers some of what was shown will make more sense?

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I think they're going for Sage + Scholar as shield healers, and reworking AST to be closer to White Mage. So two healers with one style, and two healers with the other style.

This is precisely what they mentioned what they were going to do in the announcment, and the separation will actually affect party finder, being able to differentiate between barrier healers (AST and Sage) and what they are call a "pure" healer (WHM and the reworked AST).

Would be a bit of a shame. Admittedly I mostly heal in deep dungeons for funsies, but I always liked choice based nature of astrologian in that regard. In fact I found that part to be way more interesting than the card gimmik..

I always liked it too, since it gave people a choice, but personally never liked the barrier style of AST, since the barriers didn't stack with SCH, whereas the HoT's did stack with other class HoT's. SCH wasn't bad, but I just didn't like dealing with the fairy. The card gimmick is cool, but just annoying to deal with since it's so straight forward now. It's something else to do, but I'd rather just DPS a bit than mess with the cards, that's why I preferred WHM over the other two. We'll have to wait and see how Sage shakes things up.

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The Japanese subtitle of the expansion, 暁月の終焉 is uhh... interesting to say the least. 暁月 i.e. akatsuki is a stylistic rendering of 暁, pronounced the same and meaning dawn. It's what the scions are referred to in Japanese. 終焉 has furigana of フィナーレ, or finale, but the actual shuuenn has a much darker connotation of demise. Roughly parsing my daijirin, "The ending of life. The point just before death."

Based on what the story will be covering, that seems really accurate. It's supposed to be revisiting the end of days that we saw in Amarout. Apparently that calamity is approaching again and we're going to have to deal with it. That's what they said in the Announcement showcase anyway, just after the trailer played.

[xmirrors]

As much as it pains me I think I have to agree with the sentiments about not feeling the expansion reveal. There are only so many layers of paint you can apply over something. Was really looking forward to some killer new feature but it never came. I suppose it still could, maybe the farmville stuff will be more fleshed out than I'm expecting, but I have my doubts.

[Swnem]

The 2nd class of the expansion is supposed to be a melee as far as I heard, so I left out caster options deliberately.

Also not sure if OP is the right word, It's not like FFXIV has ever striven for perfect symmetry in it's design. We also haven't seen enough of the class yet, so far I only know that fansites have it classed as the only barrier healer, certainly not giving any of the others that have them much credit. We shall see in he next months.

I mean, if you have a class with all the answers, you don't need others. Astrologians are pretty good atm cause of that, but it's an unfair advantage to have versus other healers.
Though, i would've chosen differently from the devs and would make scholar the raw healer and the astrologist the shielder. I always play Astrologist with the shields, so it's gonna feel odd when it's gone.
I guess they went with it to balance the trust options. Strange how Alphinaud and Urianger will be the opposite kind of healer they are now.

[Wrecktangle]

Hm, trailer didn't evoke the same feelings of excitement in me that previous ones have.

Not sure if that's because it's not as good, or if I'm just not as interested at the moment.

Probably a bit of both. I felt the same and if I had to explain it, I'd probably say the exact same thing.

What were you expecting? It's new zones, new dungeons, new raids, new jobs, new abilities. That is basically all that an expansion needs. I would've loved to have seen a mythic+ mode, but they did add all the essentials. Looking at your follow up post, i think it's clear you just don't like the game. No need to force yourself.

Expecting? Exactly what we got, which is the issue IMO. I hate being all knowing and omniscient. I hate being able to tell 90% of the future. It's not fun.

Jokes aside, I always enjoy the new job reveals even though I won't play most of them and always enjoy the new expansion story and ability accrual, but that's pretty much it. I'd kill for something new that I never saw coming, but I've learned long ago that this isn't the game for that, no matter how much I wish it so or how much it needs it.

It's a good game, arguably great, but it is stale IMO.

[Cattleya]

It's a good game, arguably great, but it is stale IMO.

This applies to the entire genre really. There are three types of MMORPG: Those that died, those that managed to find success and keep doing what made them successful without innovation, and those that are stuck in crowdfunding hell

[Cosmic Janitor]

They're not really missing an archetype, though there's plenty of inspiration to draw from if you look at other games or even FFXI (Really only three left they could get from there; Corsair, Geomancer and Rune Fencer), but based on the shirts Yoshi-P was wearing (which have historically been teasers themselves), the rumors are circling that it's a Scythe wielding class, possibly a Reaper, a death themed class. Beastmaster and Puppetmaster have been discussed as the next limited job, which would be cool I think.

Hmm I guess a scythe wielder could be interesting style wise and it's certainly a weeb staple that is still missing in the game. With DKN being a tank I would welcome it as well, as I'm still a bit miffed that the DKN style isn't DPS and the only melee (large) 2h dps uses spears otherwise.

Whatever they do with the next limited jobs, I hope they improve the concept, as coming in late for these is such a shit show when it comes to finding parties. I never managed to finish BLU because I put it off for too long. In general I hope they will adress coming in late to some of the older stuff.. It's nice that YP says that he is okay with people only coming back to check out new patches, but currently the only way to properly experience them is day one otherwise you are just fucked.

[Merie]

Same here. Was way too vague on what was going on and where it was going to be, all I know is that shit blows up, it will have Fandaniel and Zenos, that it had something to do with the moon, Alphinaud had floaty technology thingies and the main character is a Paladin...for some reason.

In homage to FFIV, the main character is a Dark Knight (in ShB) and now a Paladin (in EW) before ultimately going to the moon to defeat the big bad of the game. What does that have to do with XIV's story? We know that Zodiark's body is sealed in the moon already.





So if this xpack is the end of the story it's only natural we would go to the moon. As for the final days materializing in Eorzea, it's evident that the xpack centers around the Sound that we learned about in ShB. Zodiark couldn't even defeat it, only quiet it. And then Hyda killed Zodi, so now it's back. We've seen whispers of it already, from the aetheric breakdown of Montoya's broom magic to Aliesae hearing it on the 1st. As for the monsters falling from the skies, this is my best guess. https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki..._Fantasy_VIII)

[Delever]

This applies to the entire genre really. There are three types of MMORPG: Those that died, those that managed to find success and keep doing what made them successful without innovation, and those that are stuck in crowdfunding hell

You can keep the core of the game while still trying new things. Regardless of how people feel about new things in WoW (some have been nice but some have definitely missed the mark) it is undeniable that WoW does intriduce entirely new things almost every expansion. The core structure of raids and dungeons being the progression path remains the same but there are always new things built around it such as extra or alternative progression paths. This is something that does not happen at all with FFXIV as every expansion is pretty much a reskin of the previous one in nearly all aspects but the narrative.

[Katchii]

Hmm I guess a scythe wielder could be interesting style wise and it's certainly a weeb staple that is still missing in the game. With DKN being a tank I would welcome it as well, as I'm still a bit miffed that the DKN style isn't DPS and the only melee (large) 2h dps uses spears otherwise.

Same, I was a little put off about Dark Knight being a Tank instead of a DPS. Would have been awesome as a DPS class, but it worked fine as a Tank too. Dark Knight was the job in FFXI that wielded the Scythe, so I'm interested to see how they'd integrate it into another class. There's quite a few places to pull inspiration from, as far as scythe wielding martial artists in anime, it doesn't have to be a huge bulky slow weapon, they use it in a quite acrobatic and flashy way. I'd love it if they tried doing something like that.

Whatever they do with the next limited jobs, I hope they improve the concept, as coming in late for these is such a shit show when it comes to finding parties. I never managed to finish BLU because of I put it off for too long. In general I hope they will adress coming in late to some of the older stuff.. It's nice that YP says that he is okay with people only coming back to check out new patches, but currently the only way properly experience them is day one otherwise you are just fucked.

Depending on which job they introduce next, I don't think this will be an issue. I think they learned a lot from BLU, and because of it's nature (learning spells from enemies) and how those can get balanced and actually learned, it's almost like they did the most difficult "Limited Job" first.

A Beast Master that is meant to go around and tame different beasts is expected to be entirely solo anyway and I'd guess they'd be all overworld mobs, as I just don't see a Beastmaster party all going for the same monster to work out well, unless it's one of things where you earn the right to summon it after defeating it or something. We'll have to see. Even if that were the case though, they could pretty easily make BST a normal job with the limited job aspects being something that happens on the side. This would make it easy for BST to stay relevant and learn/ tame current or even older mobs

Puppetmaster would be interesting too, but I see it as being paired heavily with crafting (Goldsmithing specifically) for creating the puppet as well as the different components, but maybe the materials for the crafting come from specific high end duties and such? If that's the case, unless they designed it this way, there's no real reason you'd need to be a Puppetmaster to gather those materials. They could also make Puppetmaster a normal job too, with the Limited Job aspect be a side thing.

As far as BLU spells go, I found that I was able to pretty consistently fill a party if I just made my own regardless of where within a patch cycle I was trying. With the guaranteed chance to learn the spell if you do the content sync'd you only need to clear it once, and BLU is so OP you can roflstomp most fights if everyone has White Wind set and you have at least one dedicated healer. I completed by BLU spell log the other day, which also included OLD spells I never got, was able to get like 15 spells in one day easily. The most challenging part was completing the Masked Carnival, which is both fun and aggravating, but also rewarding IMO.

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In homage to FFIV, the main character is a Dark Knight (in ShB) and now a Paladin (in EW) before ultimately going to the moon to defeat the big bad of the game. What does that have to do with XIV's story? We know that Zodiark's body is sealed in the moon already, so if this xpack is the end of the story it's only natural we would go to the moon. As for the final days materializing in Eorzea, it's evident that the xpack centers around the Sound that we learned about in ShB. Zodiark couldn't even defeat it, only quiet it. And then Hyda killed Zodi, so now it's back. We've seen whispers of it already, from the aetheric breakdown of Montoya's broom magic to Aliesae hearing it on the 1st. As for the monsters falling from the skies, this is my best guess. https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki..._Fantasy_VIII)

All of that makes sense, but very little of that is expressed in the trailer, at least in a way that can be understood easily without digging and interpreting.

I'm stoked for the Expansion, was just saying the trailer just didn't do it for me because it was way too vague on what was going on.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I dunno what to make of the emphasis on Zodiark and the moon in the Endwalker trailer. Shadowbringers pretty clearly set up the Sound as the ultimate threat. Remember, Zodiark was created to keep the Sound in place. If Zodiark is killed, then... well... yeah. I doubt the defeat of Zodiark will be the climax of the story. It's not really the end of the saga if you go "we killed Zodiark the final boss!" and then the Sound explodes and starts warping everything again.

Perhaps the emphasis on the Moon is a red herring, and it won't be the final zone. The Sound/sickness originated from beneath the earth, and beneath the earth is the Lifestream, so I'm expecting that the climatic resolution to the saga will take place there.

Also, remember that we haven't gotten the full cinematic trailer yet. It could be a situation like Stormblood where the first trailer led us to believe it was going to be Ala Mhigo, but then the second trailer happened and showed us the other half of the expansion. There is also the poem from earlier this year, which hinted at a duality of going to the moon ("Wherefore we look unto the sky"), AND going underground ("Nor why we dig for truths below"). Or it could be a Tempest situation where the underground final zone is never revealed in pre-release material at all.

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Another thing too, is that the "Hydaelyn is a primal" reveal happened at the end of the Shadowbringers launch trailer, but happened about half way through the story. So it could be that we go to the moon about halfway through the Endwalker story, but it isn't the final zone. Also, for ShB they didn't really tell us beforehand who the final boss was. We knew that we were going to be slaying Lightwardens, and we knew that Emet was an antagonist, and that was it. Right now, Yoshida hasn't really said what the final boss will be. We know that Zenos will be an antagonist, and that's it.

[Katchii]

Perhaps the emphasis on the Moon is a red herring, and it won't be the final zone. The Sound/sickness originated from beneath the earth, and beneath the earth is the Lifestream, so I'm expecting that the climatic resolution to the saga will take place there.

Also, remember that we haven't gotten the full cinematic trailer yet. It could be a situation like Stormblood where the first trailer led us to believe it was going to be Ala Mhigo, but then the second trailer happened and showed us the other half of the expansion. There is also the poem from earlier this year, which hinted at a duality of going to the moon ("Wherefore we look unto the sky"), AND going underground ("Nor why we dig for truths below"). Or it could be a Tempest situation where the underground final zone is never revealed in pre-release material at all.

As you stated here, it's not uncommon for them to keep the final zone of the expansion a secret (did it for both Heavensward and Shadowbringers), so as not to spoil the story too much. Since they flat out announced we're going to the moon, it is somewhat likely that it won't be the final zone.

They also said in the announcement showcase that we will be dealing with the sound. So going underground, to possibly find and deal with the source of it is a possibility. I honestly don't care one way or another, I'm just hyped for the story to continue.

[Swnem]

You can keep the core of the game while still trying new things. Regardless of how people feel about new things in WoW (some have been nice but some have definitely missed the mark) it is undeniable that WoW does intriduce entirely new things almost every expansion. The core structure of raids and dungeons being the progression path remains the same but there are always new things built around it such as extra or alternative progression paths. This is something that does not happen at all with FFXIV as every expansion is pretty much a reskin of the previous one in nearly all aspects but the narrative.

Not sure what you are getting at. Are you talking about islands/visions/torghast as something they force you to run?
I find that is a WoW player bias, where everything must be about power and power only. That, is not a plus. It's a minus. Cause you don't believe players will play your content without you forcing them through mandatory power rewards.
There is new content in FF with each expansion. I can think of deep dungeons, open system areas like Eureka and bozja with their own raids, ishgard restoration was new to ShB, new mini games in the gold saucer get added, the new pvp mode and the new gardening island in EW, etc.
There is an expansion wide relic upgrade system that takes you to different content types to gain power. Bozja raids drop gear.

A dungeon progression path existed in WoW badge gear and they removed that and years later added mythic+ which is the same but with slot machines and variable difficulty.

I understand the criticisms, but i don't agree WoW is different or that both don't engage in experiments. I also don't agree that it's a bad thing. It's a system players clearly enjoy, or the games wouldn't be popular.

I don't like the atitude of sitting in a chair and saying "re-invent the wheel! Surprise me!" when the wheel clearly gets everyone moving already.
Maybe the wheel in this case isn't perfect, but it's the best we have come up with so far. It works. Don't diss it. Many players enjoy it and sitting on the high chair and shouting "surprise me! Give me what i don't know if i want!" is a tall and risky order. Not that they should stop trying, but lets not diss what works too much.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Not sure what you are getting at. Are you talking about islands/visions/torghast as something they force you to run?

I think he's talking about how WoW introduces new, experimental features and content every expansion.

• MoP introduced Challenge Mode dungeons, Pet Battles, the Brawler's guild, hunter pet taming challenges, and Timeless Isle.

• WoD introduced Garrisons (I stand by my opinion that the garrison system was in fact great. The problem was that there wasn't enough actual endgame content, leaving garrisons as virtually the only content left to do. So Garrisons became defacto endgame content when they weren't meant to be.)

• Legion introduced the Mage Tower and Artifacts.

• BFA introduced War Fronts and Island expeditions (I quite liked the Island Expeditions. I preferred leveling up my characters up to cap through it rather than slogging through the mediocre questlines).

• Shadowlands introduced Torghast.

In contrast, FFXIV doesn't really do that much new experimental content/features.

• Heavensward introduced PotD and Diadem.

• Stormblood introduced Eureka.

• Shadowbringers introduced Trusts (technically already appeared before as squadrons).

It seems that the only real new thing Endwalker is introducing is the Island Sanctuary.


Part of the reason why I spend half of my time AFKing in the Gold Saucer is because of the really different content it offers. Triple Triad, Mahjong, and the jumping puzzle, and "If the Slice is Right" is really fun.

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EDIT: I guess Shadowbringers also introduced Fishing Expeditions.

[Swnem]

I think he's talking about how WoW introduces new, experimental features and content every expansion.

• MoP introduced Challenge Mode dungeons, Pet Battles, the Brawler's guild, hunter pet taming challenges, and Timeless Isle.

• WoD introduced Garrisons (I stand by my opinion that the garrison system was in fact great. The problem was that there wasn't enough actual endgame content, leaving garrisons as virtually the only content left to do. So Garrisons became defacto endgame content when they weren't meant to be.)

• Legion introduced the Mage Tower and Artifacts.

• BFA introduced War Fronts and Island expeditions (I quite liked the Island Expeditions. I preferred leveling up my characters up to cap through it rather than slogging through the mediocre questlines).

• Shadowlands introduced Torghast.

In contrast, FFXIV doesn't really do that much new experimental content/features.

• Heavensward introduced PotD and Diadem.

• Stormblood introduced Eureka.

• Shadowbringers introduced Trusts (technically already appeared before as squadrons).

It seems that the only real new thing Endwalker is introducing is the Island Sanctuary.


Part of the reason why I spend half of my time AFKing in the Gold Saucer is because of the really different content it offers. Triple Triad, Mahjong, and the jumping puzzle, and "If the Slice is Right" is really fun.

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EDIT: I guess Shadowbringers also introduced Fishing Expeditions.

Hmm... i see. But, as you point out FF does add new things as well. They don't just make a system the expansion revolves around.

I honestly don't like it myself. Covenants for example, are a huge pain. I am forced into grinding anima to unlock my power and i am locked into my ability choices despite their worth unless i want to grind all over again. I make a power rather than a theme or cosmetic choice.
If the system didn't revolve around player power it would be much more pleasant to engage with.

I don't really like the way WoW does it, and there is my other point. Just cause the expansions don't revolve around a new system, doesn't mean it's a bad thing as WoW often misses the mark on it. It's preferable to experiment without forcing the player (eureka, bozja). That is how you reach at fun.
I find confort in knowing FF isn't gonna screw me over with some power system they decided to make up for every expansion.

[Xilurm]

I dunno what to make of the emphasis on Zodiark and the moon in the Endwalker trailer. Shadowbringers pretty clearly set up the Sound as the ultimate threat. Remember, Zodiark was created to keep the Sound in place. If Zodiark is killed, then... well... yeah. I doubt the defeat of Zodiark will be the climax of the story. It's not really the end of the saga if you go "we killed Zodiark the final boss!" and then the Sound explodes and starts warping everything again.

Perhaps the emphasis on the Moon is a red herring, and it won't be the final zone. The Sound/sickness originated from beneath the earth, and beneath the earth is the Lifestream, so I'm expecting that the climatic resolution to the saga will take place there.

Also, remember that we haven't gotten the full cinematic trailer yet. It could be a situation like Stormblood where the first trailer led us to believe it was going to be Ala Mhigo, but then the second trailer happened and showed us the other half of the expansion. There is also the poem from earlier this year, which hinted at a duality of going to the moon ("Wherefore we look unto the sky"), AND going underground ("Nor why we dig for truths below"). Or it could be a Tempest situation where the underground final zone is never revealed in pre-release material at all.

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Another thing too, is that the "Hydaelyn is a primal" reveal happened at the end of the Shadowbringers launch trailer, but happened about half way through the story. So it could be that we go to the moon about halfway through the Endwalker story, but it isn't the final zone. Also, for ShB they didn't really tell us beforehand who the final boss was. We knew that we were going to be slaying Lightwardens, and we knew that Emet was an antagonist, and that was it. Right now, Yoshida hasn't really said what the final boss will be. We know that Zenos will be an antagonist, and that's it.

You're putting way too much emphasis on the Sound. That will most likely be saved for later in some kind of way. Zodiark changed the laws of the star so the sound didn't have any power. Zodiark became the will of the star, and after Hydaelyn sundered him she became the will of the Star. Killing Zodiark will have no effect on the Sound, he is pretty much powerless atm. Killing Hydaelyn however is a different thing entirely. Though I doubt that will happen.

Either way, this is about Hydaelyn and Zodiark. I really don't want the sound taking the spotlight. The story will end in 6.0 and then they have 5 patches to build up whatever arc they want to tell next.

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All of that makes sense, but very little of that is expressed in the trailer, at least in a way that can be understood easily without digging and interpreting.

I'm stoked for the Expansion, was just saying the trailer just didn't do it for me because it was way too vague on what was going on.

The first SHB trailer didn't do much of anything either. There's always 3 trailers. A teaser trailer (first fanfest) An extended teaser trailer (2nd fanfest) A full trailer (3rd fanfest)

Heck, the Crystarium and Dancer were only revealed on the very last SHB trailer that was 2 months before the expansion launched.

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I prefer sages being the pinnacle of magic in my (j)RPGs tbh, in FF terms: Having mastered black and white magic. I wonder what melee class they have in store, I'm a bit surprised they apparently didn't even feel confident enough to put it in the trailer. Also not sure what archetype they currently lack, even looking at FF classes. Beastmaster(urgh)? Fencer? Mystic Knight (that would mostly be a red mage..)? Rune Knight? .. Freelancer, lol? Seeing how they took Sage into a completely different direction it can probably be anything.

They didn't reveal Dancer last time until the very last trailer, 2 months before the launch, 5-6 months after the first trailer.

[TidalConflux]

Been lurking here for a while. I wanted to ask: Did people complain too much about Castrum to where DR is just so forgiving in terms of content?

I understand there is a Savage mode, but it just seems like you can just endlessly revive chain on bosses because they really dont have any pressure on them. None of them have enrages besides the third boss where its literally the final phase of the fight.

To me its a bit disappointing that the challenge that Castrum had is now basically removed without anymore Bozja content (Relic sure, but how much of the actual quests are people doing in Bozja?)

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The challenge in Castrum was never the fights. They're about the same difficulty as DR. The challenge in Castrum is simply getting into Castrum with a group larger than 20 people in the first place.

[TidalConflux]

The challenge in Castrum was never the fights. They're about the same difficulty as DR. The challenge in Castrum is simply getting into Castrum with a group larger than 20 people in the first place.

I actually will disagree.

In Castrum, the first and last fights had punishing elements which made it so the group would be punished if they didnt do things right, didnt kill things fast enough, didnt perform mechanics correctly. And it would result in a wipe of a group, and possible even harm the run because of the clock being low on time.

In Delubrum, it really doesnt matter how many people die or miss mechanics...because there is no punishing players for messing up. There is no enrages, except for the rage building in your healer as they rez you for the ninth time. The doom mechanic is very mitigateable by the fact that you can just rez as many times as you want to. Compare it to Eureka (specifically Absolute Virtue), where there was safe guards against mass chain rezing by Dooming the healer when they did.

To me, it just feels like a major downgrade because there is just nothing that stop mass rezzing to victory. Theres no real challenge outside of the mechanics (which you figure out after the first or second attempt). Especially if they expect you to grind DR for Relic. Making bosses health sponges doesnt mean harder content either.

[Cosmic Janitor]

They didn't reveal Dancer last time until the very last trailer, 2 months before the launch, 5-6 months after the first trailer.

My bad, I completely forgot they released the shadowbringers trailer in multiple versions.

[Cattleya]

My bad, I completely forgot they released the shadowbringers trailer in multiple versions.

I think a lot of people complaining about the teaser trailer forget this, same with Stormblood, whose first trailer only showed the monk fight on the statue and absolutely nothing else. Compared to that, the Endwalker teaser is downright crazy