Rest in peace rogues

[Naiattavain]

there are far bigger problems going on at blizzard then what a patch can fix.

[ulf0301]

Ive been a rogue main since day 1 .... played all specs off and on over the years ..... even when sub was "just pvp" and things like that. The biggest thing i see is now we are only DPS ... nothing more. Everyone else brings something to the table other than dps. I don't feel in SL we are as strong DPS wise from what we have been ... and i guess that is ok but after getting declined for 67 mythic0 groups for this weeks' quest its clear to me we have fallen out. Bring back the hybrid tax .... lol .... and get off my lawn!

[OokOok]

the class is officially unsupported now. what ever fun you can derive from the remains of sub or any spec is now in your court. just don't get mad when blizzard decides to nerf your class again.

You kids born after 2000 make me laugh.
OH NO ROGUE ISN'T TOPPING CHARTS!!! REEEE BLIZZAAAAAAAAAAAARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rogue has been in a good spot since 2004 in some form. Just because it's not in the spot YOU want it to be as you cry, doesn't mean the class is dead or anything. Rogue is still brought to M+ and PVP. 2/3 is better than most classes in this game. Sit back, wipe your tears, do your homework. It'll be ok.....it's the first tier, relax baby boy.

[Calfredd]

there are far bigger problems going on at blizzard then what a patch can fix.

You're overreacting to an imaginary slight aimed at you of all people. Go walk off a pier and cool off.

[Wedny22]

Hahahahahaha! Rogues are the new mages. Not on top for a tier, and the crying is real. Haha you are pathetic. "My rogue is not topping the Raid, the world first didn't use rogues, therefor rogues are useless." Just Read it again, and now realise how stupid you sound.
Assassin Rogue has some issues, but then go sub for 1 tier, it Will not kill you..

[Cored]

lulz keep crying rogues.. you got used to one shotting people in the beginning of SL and got your ratings for free and now when you got balanced and suddenly require some skill your class is "nerfed to the ground"
ret palys and mages will cry the same tears in the future

[Kaver]

They have been pampered by blizzard for as long as they could think and now perceive this priviledged state as the norm. Talk about high horses.

Dude you are at the wrong forum. This is not the Warlock forum.

[intenz]

Ive been a rogue main since day 1 .... played all specs off and on over the years ..... even when sub was "just pvp" and things like that. The biggest thing i see is now we are only DPS ... nothing more. Everyone else brings something to the table other than dps. I don't feel in SL we are as strong DPS wise from what we have been ... and i guess that is ok but after getting declined for 67 mythic0 groups for this weeks' quest its clear to me we have fallen out. Bring back the hybrid tax .... lol .... and get off my lawn!

We have always been "just dps", even more so than now. For all of vanilla and TBC we offered absolutely nothing except raw dps. There was nothing wrong with that design, so long as rogues were always strong dps to compensate. Demanding more utility is perhaps not wise because devs will see the token rogue raid spot as justification for leaving rogue dps sub-par.

If I wanted to play a token class I would make a shaman or paladin. I played rogue all this time because I like the uncompromised dps theme of the class.

[Naiattavain]

ive taken a long break from wow my life seems better without playing this retarded game. my mental health seems better.

[kiramon]

I agree. Rogues offers nothing unique to a raid that only Rogues can do.

Outside of AMZ (and a shout?), what other things are other melee bringing "that no other class can do"?

Feral? Roar, maybe, though every other druid spec does that too - including the beloved Balance which also brings healer mana with it.

Survival? It can bring a BL, but multiple other classes can too.

Warrior? Shout?

Monk? DH brings that too

Enhancement brings WF, so they're special tho.

Everyone always wants to compare to the outlier (AMZ) for their lack of utility, when in reality most melees lack it. It's not dissimilar from healers - where if you lack the uber leet cooldowns (PWB, SLT, AM) you're left in the dust.

[Kaver]

what other things are other melee bringing "that no other class can do"?

Rogue is a class not a spec. As a class Rogue brings nothing right now that other classes cant do better. Don't confuse classes with specs.

- - - Updated - - -

Monk? DH brings that too

What do you mean?

[kiramon]

Rogue is a class not a spec. As a class Rogue brings nothing right now that other classes cant do better. Don't confuse classes with specs.

- - - Updated - - -

Failing to see how that dichotomy is relevant.

What do you mean?

5% debuff

[Stabbyfists]

Rogues are in for a nerf. There is a new build out for Sub Rogues in PVP that can global a 50k hp Bear Druid with 25% versatility and barkskin + ironfur up. A full Gladiator geared rogue in this vid is killed in less than a second. Yes if you manage to get a fear off before the rogue can do the shadowblade combo (However if they have cloak up, there is no hope) and before you think you can heal your partner through it, the rogue PVP ability that pulls you out of sight of everyone else is part of this combo. There is almost literally nothing you can do unless you are a paladin with a bubble. 20k+ Eviscerate crits should not be possible in PVP with people in 30% vers gear. The only solice is that these rogues can only do it every 2 mins.

I fully expect Rogues to be hit with another round of nerfs in PVP in the coming days since there has been videos made about this build. Hell my rogue is only 20% vers and Im able to global people down in arenas using the macros and rotation in this video.

I wanted to main my Demon Hunter this expansion, however after finding out all my gear really comes from PVP I think im gonna swap to rogue or boomkin until this shit is fixed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy0KDFSGguI - Video explaining how its done

[Kaver]

Failing to see how that dichotomy is relevant.

Because there is a huge difference between having to reroll a spec or having to reroll a class.

Every class should always have at least one spec which is desired for raiding for some reason.

- - - Updated - - -

5% debuff

But it's not the same debuff.. so monk and dh don't bring the same thing.

[Coldkil]

Using this thread because the title just fits despite being half the posts nonsensical

Last dps analysis in raid shows how Outlaw keeps its place just below middle of the pack, while Sub is dead last and Assa is just above it due to the buffs. Granted, least played specs are shown less powerful than they actually are because of the smaller data pool, it shows how the class just works.

All three specs in theory are more or less balanced. However since there are multiple classes with better burst/tools we end being middle of the pack, mostly thanks to Blade Flurry and the great sustained damage Outlaw has. Since Assa and Sub both fall short on these aspects, they're just completely ignored. Beware: it's only a small fraction of the content. In M+ we're pretty solid (also thanks to Blade Flurry) and i'm sure we're not terrible in PvP, but i don't have enough experience to conform that. So it's not like rogue are a dead class.

My point is that no matter the kind of rework/restyle they do on the class, they're clueless about the actually needed tools for performance, to the point we end with 2 out of 3 specs basically not played.

I liked the potential for Sub to be effective in PvE, but in the end it's just falling short and in the process they managed to make it less enjoying for PvP. At this point, being a pure melee dps, i don't care anymore which spec is destined to be used in a determined content, just tell me what it is beforehand and give it ALL the needed tools. Make so one spec is CLEARLY for PvP and one for PvE and just be done with the experiments that don't bring the class anywhere worthy.

[kaelix1]

Well, while i still think some people here overexaggerate, the harsh reality is there is no reason to bring a rogue in melee spot in high end content, even now that most guild overgear the raid , range is superior and for that melee spot we have 2 classes that are better, more i gear up more i realize that maybe maybe been a dk or ww would have been better and i don't even complain, hc wise i have decent logs but i fell i don't bring anything to the raid

[Kaver]

Using this thread because the title just fits despite being half the posts nonsensical

Last dps analysis in raid shows how Outlaw keeps its place just below middle of the pack, while Sub is dead last and Assa is just above it due to the buffs. Granted, least played specs are shown less powerful than they actually are because of the smaller data pool, it shows how the class just works.

All three specs in theory are more or less balanced. However since there are multiple classes with better burst/tools we end being middle of the pack, mostly thanks to Blade Flurry and the great sustained damage Outlaw has. Since Assa and Sub both fall short on these aspects, they're just completely ignored. Beware: it's only a small fraction of the content. In M+ we're pretty solid (also thanks to Blade Flurry) and i'm sure we're not terrible in PvP, but i don't have enough experience to conform that. So it's not like rogue are a dead class.

My point is that no matter the kind of rework/restyle they do on the class, they're clueless about the actually needed tools for performance, to the point we end with 2 out of 3 specs basically not played.

I liked the potential for Sub to be effective in PvE, but in the end it's just falling short and in the process they managed to make it less enjoying for PvP. At this point, being a pure melee dps, i don't care anymore which spec is destined to be used in a determined content, just tell me what it is beforehand and give it ALL the needed tools. Make so one spec is CLEARLY for PvP and one for PvE and just be done with the experiments that don't bring the class anywhere worthy.

I like Outlaw. However in raiding it really sucks to be a sustained melee spec with no dots or burst damage. On top of that Outlaw is balanced around CDR so we are extremely punished for downtime compared to other specs.

[mojusk]

Well, while i still think some people here overexaggerate, the harsh reality is there is no reason to bring a rogue in melee spot in high end content, even now that most guild overgear the raid , range is superior and for that melee spot we have 2 classes that are better, more i gear up more i realize that maybe maybe been a dk or ww would have been better and i don't even complain, hc wise i have decent logs but i fell i don't bring anything to the raid

yep we are very mediocre. we can fill a empty spot just fine. but thats all we can do. if we cant have top tier dps, at least give us more utility. only reason were still good for m+ is shroud. which is of little use in raid.

outlaw is fine. but the other two specs are below average at what is supposed to be their niché.

[Eazy]

Outlaw is king in M+.
Subtlety is good in PvP.
Assa is okay-ish in Raiding.




But seriously - as a class that brings nothing to the raid(no buffs for others, no debuffs for bosses, trash, adds) and it's only DMG class(no tank/heal spec) - it should've been higher in DPS.

[kaelix1]

yep we are very mediocre. we can fill a empty spot just fine. but thats all we can do. if we cant have top tier dps, at least give us more utility. only reason were still good for m+ is shroud. which is of little use in raid.

outlaw is fine. but the other two specs are below average at what is supposed to be their niché.

This number balancing is a problem since day1, I refuse to believe blizz didn't learn by now, why not give each spec some kind of buff/debuff that is worth more than staking classes, im looking at mythic kills on youtube and majority of them have the same damn combo, its freaking sad