Page 15 of 20 FirstFirst ...
5
13
14
15
16
17
... LastLast
  1. #281
    Legendary! Ihavewaffles's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    The spice must flow!
    Posts
    6,034
    what the fuck...he shot a couple, over snow, in a state that has the death penalty for murder...is the snow shoveling supposed to lessen his sentence?..."but judge, you see, my hand was forced"
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2021-02-09 at 08:12 PM.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    what the fuck...he shot a couple, over snow, in a state that has the death penalty for murder...is the snow shoveling supposed to lessen his sentence?..."but judge, you see, my hand was forced"
    He enacted the sentence himself when the cops knocked on his door.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  3. #283
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    (͠≖ ͜ʖ͠≖)
    Posts
    5,537
    "You're wrong."

    "No you're wrong."

    "no u"




    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    what the fuck...he shot a couple, over snow, in a state that has the death penalty for murder...is the snow shoveling supposed to lessen his sentence?..."but judge, you see, my hand was forced"

    He beat the state to the punch. He must have had a minute of clarity after his seemingly blind rage.

  4. #284
    Legendary! Ihavewaffles's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    The spice must flow!
    Posts
    6,034
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeth Hawkins View Post
    Gotta wonder how long this had been going on, and what else the couple had been doing, that drove him to this.

    As well, what else had been going on in his life? These sorts of things do not just happen over a few spats.

    The way he came back with a new weapon to execute them was chilling.
    No, the chilling part was him hurry BACK into his home after he killed two people, like this was something you could run away from..."I got inside! I'm glad that nuisance is over! What is on television?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    He enacted the sentence himself when the cops knocked on his door.
    Suicide? Well, that settles it...dumb af...all his solutions involve guns..

    Would he have shot a clerk over the price of a can of dog food? I wonder...dumb people shouldn't have guns..

  5. #285
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    (͠≖ ͜ʖ͠≖)
    Posts
    5,537
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Would he have shot a clerk over the price of a can of dog food? I wonder...dumb people shouldn't have guns..


    Maybe. Maybe if he repeatedly went into the pet store to purchase the can of dog food and on numerous occasions argued over the price with the clerk... maybe.


    Regardless of his reasoning/justification for resorting to murder, it's a shame it spawned from something like verbal arguments over fucking shoveling snow.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Suicide? Well, that settles it...dumb af...all his solutions involve guns..
    Yeah, apparently upon knocking at his door the responding officers heard a single gunshot from inside.

    Would he have shot a clerk over the price of a can of dog food? I wonder...dumb people shouldn't have guns..
    This is my view. This guy was always going to do something like this. He was a fucking lunatic.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  7. #287
    Legendary! Ihavewaffles's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    The spice must flow!
    Posts
    6,034
    This was like watching one of those youtube videos with people fighting at walmart, you know they are dumb af, but one of them had a gun this time..

    I still don't get the snow thing, they live on the other side of the road from each other, how would snow travel from one house to another? Or the gun guy was mad that some snow ended up on the road between them?

    "it's my drive way/road, mother fucker!"
    boom
    boom
    boom
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2021-02-09 at 08:29 PM.

  8. #288
    nah man they were both still alive when he went inside to get the AR, he came out a third time with another gun (not on the OP video) and shot them again. but they were both definitely still alive after the first clip he used from his pistol

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    This was like watching one of those youtube videos with people fighting at walmart, you know they are dumb af, but one of them had a gun this time..

    I still don't get the snow thing, they live on the other side of the road from each other, how would snow travel from one house to another? Or the gun guy was mad that some snow ended up on the road between them?

    "it's my drive way/road, mother fucker!"
    boom
    boom
    boom
    Apparently they were deliberately tossing the snow onto his driveway. I guess there was a long standing feud between them. Who knows what started it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ohtlmtlm View Post
    nah man they were both still alive when he went inside to get the AR, he came out a third time with another gun (not on the OP video) and shot them again. but they were both definitely still alive after the first clip he used from his pistol
    You have a source for that?

    I haven't read anything about a third gun being used. The video on the OP only has the handgun and the rifle shootings.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  10. #290
    Legendary! Ihavewaffles's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    The spice must flow!
    Posts
    6,034
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Apparently they were deliberately tossing the snow onto his driveway. I guess there was a long standing feud between them. Who knows what started it.
    Wait, across the road up unto his drive way?...
    But that is so much extra work!..
    it's cold, who have time to do such stupid shit...geez, looks like everyone were stupid..can't have been that much snow, a little bit of salt would have taken care of it n kept drive way ice free..

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    /snip
    We're not arguing this in a court of law, so you need to stop focusing on the notion of legal culpability. We're not discussing that since it has already been stated time and time again that there was no action that justified murder. We're not talking about legal provocation where the reaction might be argued as reasonable. We've already stated time and time again that murder was not a reasonable reaction. I've also stated several times that there is no argument for inevitability. The preceding events did not necessitate this outcome.

    When I say "provoke" I mean it in the basic definition of the word; to incite someone to anger. We saw that on the video. When I say "cause and effect" I mean that the outcome was at least in part a response to the preceding events with no value judgement either way. Would this man have killed this people at that exact same time and place had there been no argument? Perhaps, but that's not how the event played out on camera. The only one suggesting that this outcome was predetermined is you if you're claiming that the argument played no part in the shooting. And just because one can say that A led to B doesn't mean that the killer had no agency to change the situation.

    No one is conflating "motive" and "justification" except for you. There's no justification, that has already been stated multiple times. Motive doesn't remove agency, it simply explains how or why someone went from point A to point B. It doesn't mean there's a good, just, or reasonable motivation. It simply tells you that there was motivation.

    The child killer example you gave makes no sense in the context of this discussion because there's no provocation, no active participation in conflict or escalation.

  12. #292
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,899
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    We're not arguing this in a court of law, so you need to stop focusing on the notion of legal culpability. We're not discussing that since it has already been stated time and time again that there was no action that justified murder. We're not talking about legal provocation where the reaction might be argued as reasonable. We've already stated time and time again that murder was not a reasonable reaction. I've also stated several times that there is no argument for inevitability. The preceding events did not necessitate this outcome.

    When I say "provoke" I mean it in the basic definition of the word; to incite someone to anger. We saw that on the video. When I say "cause and effect" I mean that the outcome was at least in part a response to the preceding events with no value judgement either way. Would this man have killed this people at that exact same time and place had there been no argument? Perhaps, but that's not how the event played out on camera. The only one suggesting that this outcome was predetermined is you if you're arguing that the argument played no part in the shooting. And just because one can say that A led to B doesn't mean that the killer had no agency to change the situation.

    No one is conflating "motive" and "justification" except for you. There's no justification, that has already been stated multiple times. Motive doesn't remove agency, it simply explains how or why someone went from point A to point B. It doesn't mean there's a good, just, or reasonable motivation. It simply tells you that there was motivation.

    The child killer example you gave makes no sense in the context of this discussion because there's no provocation, no active participation in conflict or escalation.
    And, in the way you're using the words, I do not see one whit of provocation to murder, here.

    The same way that there wouldn't be with the children.

    The hypothetical serial killer would disagree, as would the madman with the gun, but that's why they're murderers rather than reasonable people.

    That's why I'm clarifying the difference between motive and justification. Their crazy motive may have driven them to commit murder, but it wasn't justified by the actions of their victims in any way whatsoever. Their victims did not contribute to the motive of the murderer to commit murder. Not one whit.

    He'd disagree, but he'd be wrong. And realizing how wrong he was is a likely reason he took his own life.

    Stop. Blaming. Victims.


  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Victim blaming is about rape and race (separate instances), for the most part, and is continually misuse and misunderstood when taken out of those contexts. Like we've done here.
    It's sad, because this tells me that you are one of the "good guys" not because you understand it, but because at some point you decided for a side and are just going through the motions without understanding exactly why. It just so happens that this made you a guy with generally decent views. But it seems to me you've never actually sat down and actually thought the whole thing through (with someone). It was sheer chance that made you one of the good guys. And that is depressing, because you are not alone.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Again, all you are saying is that you believe the victims deserve to be blamed. But you are putting the blame of one person's actions on the people victimized by those actions. They did not put a gun in his hands.
    Yes, the victims deserve to be blamed for what they did. They did not put the gun in their target's hands. He did. The shooter is to be blamed for killing them. I have never blamed anyone for another person's actions. Your comprehension is extremely lacking. I have pointed this out multiple times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    Does not compute.....
    Your emphasis removed the necessary emphasis to comprehend the statement.

    The couple is being blamed for the couple's actions. The couple is not being blamed for the shooter's actions.

    Blaming the couple for getting shot is Victim Blaming.

    Blaming people for what they chose to do is just Regular Blaming. The fact that they became victim of a crime later does not absolve them of the blame they deserve.
    Last edited by Jonnusthegreat; 2021-02-09 at 09:40 PM.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Yes, the victims deserve to be blamed for what they did. They did not put the gun in their target's hands. He did. The shooter is to be blamed for killing them. I have never blamed anyone for another person's actions. Your comprehension is extremely lacking. I have pointed this out multiple times.
    So, lets be clear... they hold no responsibility whatsoever in regards to their murder.

    They are only responsible for their actions before the murder.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    So, lets be clear... they hold no responsibility whatsoever in regards to their murder.

    They are only responsible for their actions before the murder.
    For the fourth (I think) time, yes. They are responsible for starting the fight that led to their deaths.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'll say, at least it looks like he came prepared with a printed out speech and props.

    First guy looks like he scribbled his down on a legal pad on his way to the Capitol building.
    You might have stumbled into the wrong thread :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    For the fourth (I think) time, yes. They are responsible for starting the fight that led to their deaths.
    I just want to be clear...because there have been many different positions in this thread about the culpability of the victims.

    You would agree then that anyone that says that they are responsible for their deaths is engaging in Victim blaming?
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    I just want to be clear...because there have been many different positions in this thread about the culpability of the victims.

    You would agree then that anyone that says that they are responsible for their deaths is engaging in Victim blaming?
    If you re-read my post from two posts ago that you quoted (and specifically deleted), you will find the answer there.

    EDIT: Well, it was an edit. Maybe you didn't see:

    Your emphasis removed the necessary emphasis to comprehend the statement.

    The couple is being blamed for the couple's actions. The couple is not being blamed for the shooter's actions.

    Blaming the couple for getting shot is Victim Blaming.

    Blaming people for what they chose to do is just Regular Blaming. The fact that they became victim of a crime later does not absolve them of the blame they deserve.
    Last edited by Jonnusthegreat; 2021-02-09 at 09:41 PM.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    You might have stumbled into the wrong thread :P
    Damnit, thanks. The dangers of too many tabs open at once >.<

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    If you re-read my post from two posts ago that you quoted (and specifically deleted), you will find the answer there.

    EDIT: Well, it was an edit. Maybe you didn't see:
    I just wanted that stated on record as a succinct answer...because there have been those in this thread that have put responsibility for the shooting on the victims.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •