Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Edge-]

https://www.vox.com/recode/2021/2/8/...iracy-theories

Eyyyy, it only took a pandemic raging for a year, but Facebook is gonna start smakin down vaccine conspiracy nonsense.

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https://www.thegazette.com/subject/n...nolds-20210208

And once more, the Death Cult Party decides to unilaterally lift restrictions in a state where they were put in place to slow the spread. In the state with one of the slowest vaccine rollouts.

Without bothering to consult its own department of health.

[Granyala]

People just keep making excuse after excuse instead of doing the right thing and reducing the spread of a deadly disease.

And you just keep trolling the thread with debunked assertions....

[Forogil]

Relative normality. Obviously there will be more potential pandemics in the future, but we really fucked up handling this one. We could have very easily starved this virus out, the transfer to animals doesnt really change that.

No, we couldn't have done that easily.

Animal hosts don't fundamentally change it, they just turn it from virtually impossible to impossible.

And don't expect more replies to your unscientific ramblings.

[Ihavewaffles]

With vaccine shortages, EU drops its cold war bs, if they had acted sooner, how many lives could have been saved?

Pfifzer etc seem a lot less safer, won't be taking those..

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...191-4/fulltext
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-55900622
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/w...effective.html
https://www.rt.com/russia/515004-ema...v-application/

Sputnik V prepares for EU launch: Russian Covid-19 vaccine clears 1st hurdle for roll-out as regulator EMA accepts application.

Published: 9 Feb 2021 | 09:14 GMT

Brussels’ beleaguered coronavirus vaccination program could be poised to get a shot in the arm as the EU’s central regulator completes its initial stage in appraising Sputnik V, the vaccine developed by Moscow’s Gamaleya Center.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) told Russian media on Tuesday that the scientific consultation process was now finalized. “As a next step, the company can prepare an application for a registration certificate” for the EU market, a source at the agency informed RIA Novosti.

Later that morning, the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF), which financed the development of the formula, announced that it “has official confirmation from the EMA that the application was accepted.” How quickly it could receive final approval to be used is now up to the regulator.

In January, Brussels announced that it was considering the formula. The RDIF, which financed its development, told reporters at the time it had “filed for Sputnik V’s registration in the EU and expect it to be reviewed in February. Based on these reviews, the EMA will decide on authorization of Sputnik V for the EU.”

A number of member states have since expressed optimism about the prospect of access to the vaccine. Last week, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she was open to Germany using Sputnik V after data published in the Lancet showed its effectiveness was 91.6 percent against the virus overall and 100 percent against severe cases. “We have received good data today from the Russian vaccine,” Merkel said. “Every vaccine is welcome in the EU, but only after it has been approved by EMA.”

At a meeting with counterparts in Moscow last week, the EU’s high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, Josep Borrell, lavished praise on the vaccine. The diplomat told reporters at a press conference that he wanted to “congratulate Russia on the success of this venture. This is useful for all mankind, it means that we will have more tools to fight the pandemic.” The former Spanish foreign minister expressed hope “that now the European Medicines Agency will be able to certify this vaccine for use in EU member states.”

Last week, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen acknowledged a number of failures in its strategy to procure supplies and launch its immunization program. “In hindsight we should have given more thought in parallel to the challenges of mass production,” she said. There has been mounting pressure on Brussels due to the slow start to injections, with countries like Israel and the UK rolling out programs far faster despite, in theory, having smaller purchasing power than the bloc.

Also on Tuesday, the World Health Organization (WHO) expressed hope that Sputnik V would become one of the formulas supplied as part of the COVAX program, which aims to roll out vials to less affluent countries that have been unable to buy their way onto manufacturers’ order books. Around 190 nations such as Afghanistan, Namibia, and Ukraine are all posted to receive hundreds of thousands, or even millions, of doses.

Because of its ability to be stored at warmer temperatures and the fact its price tag is significantly lower than its equally efficacious competitors, the formula has been seen as a potential game changer for distribution to the developing world.

[Forogil]

With vaccine shortages, EU drops its cold war bs, if they had acted sooner, how many lives could have been saved?

Pfifzer etc seem a lot less safer, won't be taking those..

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...191-4/fulltext
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-55900622
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/02/w...effective.html
https://www.rt.com/russia/515004-ema...v-application/

Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine seems safe - I don't know where you heard otherwise.
Pfizer/BionNTech vaccine is also likely more effective than Sputnik V (that on the other hand seem more effective than AstraZeneca).

The J&J (or Janssen) vaccine might also be a game-changer for developing countries, as it is similar to both AstraZeneca and Sputnik V, but it has also been tested with only one dose.

However, I see nothing indicating that the EU delayed this due to cold war bs. You simply don't start processing an application until you receive it, and Sputnik V application was as far as I see only sent in after they had results from phase 3 tests, which is completely normal - you don't authorize without a test.

On the other hand the name "Sputnik V" and Russia skipping precautions and stating that they began using it before phase 3 reeks more of cold war bs from another player (and I still find it odd that Putin announced that one of his daughters got it - but not which one). It's good that it still seems to work, but even the Lancet study has some odd parts - in particular two covid-deaths among the vaccinated (I have previously given one likely explanation, and I don't see the vaccine itself as the problem - it's just that it doesn't look good).

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Found an interesting comparison of the success of different states in the US in combatting covid-19:
https://www.economist.com/united-sta...19-differently

Basically the largest two states differ a lot: one democratic (California) trying to lock down things, and another republican (Texas) trying to keep it as open as possible.

Obviously California has a lower death toll per capita, the interesting part is that the difference isn't that large: 104 vs 127 deaths per 100,000 (the numbers are of course increasing, and it's still about 8,000 extra deaths); indicating that it isn't easy to completely stop the disease.

[Easo]

@Forogil, it is obvious that Waffles is doing what he does best - shills for the Russia. Seems like his great idea is an attempt to show how amazing the Sputnik is with thinly veiled suggestion that it is the best vaccine against Covid.
Obviously Pfizer's vaccine is safe, look at the Israel and USA, plus whatever millions of doses were used in EU.

[Ihavewaffles]

Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine seems safe - I don't know where you heard otherwise.
Pfizer/BionNTech vaccine is also likely more effective than Sputnik V (that on the other hand seem more effective than AstraZeneca).

The J&J (or Janssen) vaccine might also be a game-changer for developing countries, as it is similar to both AstraZeneca and Sputnik V, but it has also been tested with only one dose.

However, I see nothing indicating that the EU delayed this due to cold war bs. You simply don't start processing an application until you receive it, and Sputnik V application was as far as I see only sent in after they had results from phase 3 tests, which is completely normal - you don't authorize without a test.

On the other hand the name "Sputnik V" and Russia skipping precautions and stating that they began using it before phase 3 reeks more of cold war bs from another player (and I still find it odd that Putin announced that one of his daughters got it - but not which one). It's good that it still seems to work, but even the Lancet study has some odd parts - in particular two covid-deaths among the vaccinated (I have previously given one likely explanation, and I don't see the vaccine itself as the problem - it's just that it doesn't look good).

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Found an interesting comparison of the success of different states in the US in combatting covid-19:
https://www.economist.com/united-sta...19-differently

Basically the largest two states differ a lot: one democratic (California) trying to lock down things, and another republican (Texas) trying to keep it as open as possible.

Obviously California has a lower death toll per capita, the interesting part is that the difference isn't that large: 104 vs 127 deaths per 100,000 (the numbers are of course increasing, and it's still about 8,000 extra deaths); indicating that it isn't easy to completely stop the disease.

I read about how several countries (poland n others) have had concerns about phizers given to elderly 55+
Astra zenica won't be given at all to elderly in several countries.

If you want to talk about true safety, lets wait 15 years for all the vaccines...I haven't heard any issues with Sputnik besides mostly "we don't have all information" which is strange since Russia shares all information, shared with every country interested in acquiring it n are allowed to make it themselves, what secrecy is there?
There's hundreds of vaccines being made in the world, so yes you won't have insight in all of them.

As for your comment "it doesn't look good" uh, what does that mean? No vaccine in the world claims 100% efficiency. The world just isn't interested in waiting 15 years. But considering Russia has been doing corona-related work for years in distrust of China showing itself oblivious of what was destined to come, I believe Russia has done lots ground work to create a reliable product. I don't think they were the 1st in the world to announce a vaccine just to say it. That would be shallow and a douche move..

But other countries, I'm suspicious how much pre-work they had, if they, most of them most likely just started from scratch one day n excuse me for being suspicious of that..

For western companies, I don't have much trust in those who care about share holders more than people..I'm actually surprised they didn't try to sell their vaccines for ten times that they cost today. But I guess with the huge pandemic they didn't dare. Imagine the riots...

Still over-priced. and that they have to be frozen is a big minus..

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@Forogil, it is obvious that Waffles is doing what he does best - shills for the Russia. Seems like his great idea is an attempt to show how amazing the Sputnik is with thinly veiled suggestion that it is the best vaccine against Covid.
Obviously Pfizer's vaccine is safe, look at the Israel and USA, plus whatever millions of doses were used in EU.

Ah, someone from the Baltics speaks...

World: Sputnik is very safe
Baltics: *buries head in sand*

Lithuania Won’t Buy Russian Vaccine It Deems a Geopolitical Tool
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...political-tool

Rather sacrifice own citizens than get vaccines

EU isn't getting Sputnik because of safety, it's because of their lack of vaccines distribution. Will Easo rather be sick in case the vaccines tries to steal his freedoms n sheit?

[Forogil]

I read about how several countries (poland n others) have had concerns about phizers given to elderly 55+

Ah, the famous "I read" - the best of all sources.

I cannot see anyone reporting this - there has been a few problems in getting enough of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in many countries, including Poland - but no any significant concern about safety (except possibly for the most fragile elderly).

Astra zenica won't be given at all to elderly in several countries.

Because the Astra-Zeneca vaccine haven't been tested enough in terms of efficacy on the elderly, not because of safety concerns.
There might be similar issues with allowing Sputnik V for non-whites, as the phase 3 test was almost exclusively on white persons.

I haven't heard any issues with Sputnik besides mostly "we don't have all information" which is strange since Russia shares all information, shared with every country interested in acquiring it n are allowed to make it themselves, what secrecy is there?

For secrecy ask the Russians that wrote the study published last week in the Lancet; I don't know if it was ready even earlier.
EMA couldn't evaluate it before it was submitted, that's kind of obvious.

And then they had to look at the study to evaluate it. Nothing strange.

As for your comment "it doesn't look good" uh, what does that mean?

TWO PERSON DEAD IN COVID-19 AFTER GETTING RUSSIAN VACCINE, in the trial - but the claim is still that the vaccine fully prevented deaths.

Is that clear enough for you? I can see an explanation that doesn't involve the vaccine itself, but that clearly doesn't look good.

But other countries, I'm suspicious how much pre-work they had, if they, most of them most likely just started from scratch one day n excuse me for being suspicious of that..

What kind of conspiracies are you peddling this time?

BTW: they didn't all start from scratch - many have worked on general mRNA-vaccines and related Sars-Cov-1 and MERS-vaccines before this.

Still over-priced. and that they have to be frozen is a big minus..

Sputnik V seems over-priced compared to the technology used.

And to correct another error:
The Moderna mRNA vaccine actually can be stored in a normal refrigerator in about a month (with freezer it can be stored several months - but I don't see anyone storing it for long at the time).

Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine might later be upgraded to the same, but can actually be stored in a normal refrigerator for five days before directly being used.

[Ihavewaffles]

That is because they probably would have died anyway, and did you not notice I wrote no vaccine is 100% and at least twice i wrote we need 15 years to properly verify all vaccines n the world isn't going to wait for that.

Lol the guy who peddles lancet conspiracies is talking about peddling conspiracies..

Didn't a bunch of people get covid recently this month after getting astra-zenica?..

You say "but possibly the most fragile elderly" eh, no, it says age group, not depending on their fragility, it has to have some safety to be of general use to elderly.

My mom works in a hospital, is above pension age, but I wouldn't call her 'fragile' or that a vaccine would be ok to have if it isn't safe for all age groups. That is the bare minimum to ask..

There might be similar issues with allowing Sputnik V for non-whites, as the phase 3 test was almost exclusively on white persons.

Lol dude, what the fuck? What tin-foil hat site do you get your information?

[Forogil]

That is because they probably would have died anyway,

Two persons die of covid-19 after getting vaccinated against it in a study and they are skipped in the study for reasons, and you don't find it looking odd at all?

You don't include people that are that close to death in vaccine studies for obvious reasons.

Lol the guy who peddles lancet conspiracies is talking about peddling conspiracies..

You have peddled several conspiracies.

Where is the reference to Poland and others stopping Pfizer?
Wasn't your post about western companies having prior knowledge a thinly veiled reference to the conspiracy that covid-19 was lab-created?
And then we have the entire "secrecy" and "cold war", when Russia hadn't submitted the application until last week.
(And they hadn't completed the Lancet article before January 25th 2021.)
And then we have the false claims about cold storage.

Lol dude, what the fuck? What tin-foil hat site do you get your information?

By reading the Lancet study of Sputnik V. They included racial composition of the participants and >98% were white.

Do you find it odd that most persons are Caucasians in Russia?

[Ihavewaffles]

Dude, you are too woke to be in this thread, try to breathe in a dose of rationality n promptly leave this thread.
[Infraction]

[Forogil]

@Forogil, it is obvious that Waffles is doing what he does best - shills for the Russia.

Yes, I see that.

But I find that sometimes it's worth it to confront the shills.

[Pann]

Early days but this could be really good news.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-h...-idUKKBN2A92L0

[Forogil]

Early days but this could be really good news.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-h...-idUKKBN2A92L0

Certainly promising, but it's preliminary result from a small study (the data is from just of a dozen cases of covid-19; it seems they started in March last year but just haven't gotten more cases yet) - and the study wasn't double-blind.

As noted in the study this was based on the idea that smokers were somewhat under-represented among covid-cases (due to regularly taking the drug for lung problems) - which makes more sense than smoking being good for you.

A minor concern is that other steroids have only been useful in serious cases, and now this study recommends it for everyone infected.

[Easo]

I read about how several countries (poland n others) have had concerns about phizers given to elderly 55+
Astra zenica won't be given at all to elderly in several countries.

Ah, someone from the Baltics speaks...

World: Sputnik is very safe
Baltics: *buries head in sand*



Rather sacrifice own citizens than get vaccines

EU isn't getting Sputnik because of safety, it's because of their lack of vaccines distribution. Will Easo rather be sick in case the vaccines tries to steal his freedoms n sheit?

Source for Pfizer claim because it is absolute bullshit you just made up.

Yes, well, we first hand know the usual rhetoric coming from Russia, so...
Sacrifice? How about the fact that Russia cannot export it to EU sooner than May/June at which point Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and others will be delivering enough?

Поставки российской вакцины против коронавируса "Спутник V" могут начаться не ранее мая-июня, только после завершения основной части массовой вакцинации в России, заявил глава Российского фонда прямых инвестиций (РФПИ) Кирилл Дмитриев.
Масштабные поставки в Евросоюз возможны только после того, как завершится масштабная вакцинация россиян. То есть только после того, как все желающие в России, которые хотели провакцинироваться, будут провакцинированы

Or how about that we have ordered more than enough of other vaccines? Just like rest of Europe did, more than there are people?
It is not like Sputnik would suddenly come in country sized doses. So there is no point in getting it.

[Felya]

Source for Pfizer claim because it is absolute bullshit you just made up.

Yes, well, we first hand know the usual rhetoric coming from Russia, so...
Sacrifice? How about the fact that Russia cannot export it to EU sooner than May/June at which point Pfizer, Moderna, AZ and others will be delivering enough?

Or how about that we have ordered more than enough of other vaccines? Just like rest of Europe did, more than there are people?
It is not like Sputnik would suddenly come in country sized doses. So there is no point in getting it.

Minor nitpick... it’s not that they cannot, they won’t, until every Russian is vaccinated... basically... Russia first...

[Easo]

Minor nitpick... it’s not that they cannot, they won’t, until every Russian is vaccinated... basically... Russia first...

I mean, it would be dumb to cut local deliveries in favour of other countries, especially amidst various small rumours/guesses pointing out that there are/might be delivery shortages and the official number of vaccinations is overblown by some amount.
They will export it en mass before everyone at home is vaccinated anyway... Russia has low levels of public trust in goverment and in vaccines as well, everyone simply will not get it. There are some exports right now, but those seem like quite small numbers when compared to the 145 million large Russia and it's needs.

[Forogil]

If we'd acted like we did with sars or any number of infectious viruses we've stopped

Because sars-cov-1 was an easy virus to handle - in contrast to sars-cov-2.

Sars-cov-1 is easier to contain, since everyone infected become noticeably ill and have R0 around 1 - compared to somewhere around 3 for sars-cov-2. However, we haven't eliminated the animal hosts for Sars-cov diseases (as seen by Sars-cov-2), and Mers is still propagating among animals (but doesn't infect humans in noticeable numbers - it seems to have R0 below 1).

Some other diseases look scary, but are easy to stop - like Ebola; as long as you don't come into contact with the visibly infected (dead or alive), or require an animal host and thus doesn't spready everywhere - like Zika.

Oh, and to be clear: what China did with their 2 month lockdown around Wuhan wasn't how we have acted before. And N. Italy showed that implementing something similar in democratic countries isn't easy.

So, just stop your unscientific ramblings.

[Easo]

So about that EU vaccination, I am sure that some here will be happy with glee

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56009251

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has admitted the EU was late to authorise Covid-19 vaccines and "we're still not where we want to be".

She also acknowledged the EU had been overconfident about production targets being met amid delays at factories.

[Pann]

The WHO have recommended the OX/AZ vaccine for the over 65s and are recommending an interval of 8-12 weeks between 1st and 2nd doses.

https://www.who.int/publications-det...AZD1222-2021.1