MU Gul'dan is The Runecarver

[Kathranis]

very tactical of you to miss out the first part of my post so I'll put it again.


They already said each cosmic force has it's own place it goes to when it dies.

Yeah, and for a few of them it's the Shadowlands. Otherwise there would be nothing in there but souls of the undead.

Night elves go there, humans go there, trolls go there, undead go there, wild gods go there, etc.

[MatPandaZ]

Yeah, and for a few of them it's the Shadowlands. Otherwise there would be nothing in there but souls of the undead.

Night elves go there, humans go there, trolls go there, undead go there, wild gods go there, etc.

those are races, not cosmic forces.

[Vampyrr]

The Runecarver and Gul'dan have very similar body types from the wide chest to the narrow waist, the gangly fingers and toes with the pointed nails, and both are hunched over. The even sound similar.

The Rune carver is proficient with runes, and so is Gul'dan. He also did a lot of work with soul energy which The Jailer uses to power his weapons. Frostmournes power was designed to draw out souls to send them to The Jailer, but raising the dead was not one of those powers per se, it just made the task easier. Gul'dan was taught necromancey by Kil'jaeden, and then he taught it to Ner'zhul, which in turn allowed the Lich King to have it. Ner'zhul was also taught rune magic by Gul'dan.

Gul'dan has always been used by others, and Ner'zhul has suffered himself by being Gul'dans apprentice. Thrall even says that the weapon used to injure Baine in the Maw was similar to the weapons used by the Shadowcouncil. So it makes sense with Gul'dan being the one to design the Helm, that Ner'zhul gets trapped inside it.

I think after dying in the Tomb of Sargeras, Gul'dan went to the Maw where the Jailer imprisoned him to use his knowledge of soul magic to create his armies weapons and armor.

Everything seems to revolve around the existence of Gul'dan as well.

Except the Runecarver is hinted to be ancient and Guldan is .... not. Hed be locked up somewhere in Revendreth get Sin Stoned for eternity

[Lochton]

The Runecarver and Gul'dan have very similar body types from the wide chest to the narrow waist, the gangly fingers and toes with the pointed nails, and both are hunched over. The even sound similar.

The Rune carver is proficient with runes, and so is Gul'dan. He also did a lot of work with soul energy which The Jailer uses to power his weapons. Frostmournes power was designed to draw out souls to send them to The Jailer, but raising the dead was not one of those powers per se, it just made the task easier. Gul'dan was taught necromancey by Kil'jaeden, and then he taught it to Ner'zhul, which in turn allowed the Lich King to have it. Ner'zhul was also taught rune magic by Gul'dan.

Gul'dan has always been used by others, and Ner'zhul has suffered himself by being Gul'dans apprentice. Thrall even says that the weapon used to injure Baine in the Maw was similar to the weapons used by the Shadowcouncil. So it makes sense with Gul'dan being the one to design the Helm, that Ner'zhul gets trapped inside it.

I think after dying in the Tomb of Sargeras, Gul'dan went to the Maw where the Jailer imprisoned him to use his knowledge of soul magic to create his armies weapons and armor.

Everything seems to revolve around the existence of Gul'dan as well.

Quite sure the popular theory is that it is the Primus.

[Vampyrr]

So, where is the soul of MU Gul'dan, obviously, he isn't the Runecarver?

Can ask the same where is the soul of Varian

[Thage]

Apparently we can't connect the dots, and/or don't care so long as he makes leggies for us.

Apathy does tend to be a recurring trait the PC displays. We run by all sorts of messed-up shit on a regular basis without batting an eyelash; whether it's because the PC learned over the years to pick their battles or they're just numbed to most of it by this point is up in the air.

[Tyrannica]

Can ask the same where is the soul of Varian

Don't tell me in HotS!

Yeah, where are the souls of Gul'dan and Varian? Might possibly be that fel magic affected Gul'dan's soul to be relocated elswhere.

Varian was blasted by AU Gul'dan's fel magic, so his soul might be elsewhere as well, maybe at a place were both are battle it out for all enternity in the twisting nether?

Oh and a side question, if Gul'dan is really recovering in the twisted nether, do all of his versions come together, like it happens with mortal souls in the SL? And would that mean, Gul'dan is a hybrid beeing, because i thought demons only have 1 version of themselves in the entire multiverse?

[Djaye]

The Runecarver and Gul'dan have very similar body types from the wide chest to the narrow waist, the gangly fingers and toes with the pointed nails, and both are hunched over. The even sound similar.

The Rune carver is proficient with runes, and so is Gul'dan. He also did a lot of work with soul energy which The Jailer uses to power his weapons. Frostmournes power was designed to draw out souls to send them to The Jailer, but raising the dead was not one of those powers per se, it just made the task easier. Gul'dan was taught necromancey by Kil'jaeden, and then he taught it to Ner'zhul, which in turn allowed the Lich King to have it. Ner'zhul was also taught rune magic by Gul'dan.

Gul'dan has always been used by others, and Ner'zhul has suffered himself by being Gul'dans apprentice. Thrall even says that the weapon used to injure Baine in the Maw was similar to the weapons used by the Shadowcouncil. So it makes sense with Gul'dan being the one to design the Helm, that Ner'zhul gets trapped inside it.

I think after dying in the Tomb of Sargeras, Gul'dan went to the Maw where the Jailer imprisoned him to use his knowledge of soul magic to create his armies weapons and armor.

Everything seems to revolve around the existence of Gul'dan as well.

runecarver made the helm of dominion and frostmourne, both of which came before Guldan's demise. so, no.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Bah Blizzard and souls isnt something you should look for logic in

Draka being alive on Alternate Draenor pretty much breaks any Logic of her soul being in an afterlife...

Its the Draka that died on Azeroth(Hence the Shadowlands video about her).

[Wysmark]

Its the Draka that died on Azeroth(Hence the Shadowlands video about her).

I get that, but having multiples of the same person kinda kill the concept of a soul

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I get that, but having multiples of the same person kinda kill the concept of a soul

It really doesn't, each alternate version its its own soul if you want a simple explanation.

[Zmagoslav]

I mean let's be honest, none of it makes a lick of sense as Sylvanas had no business going to the maw as nothing she did in her life or undeath deserved it even now(less so back when she killed herself) as there are far worse beings in reven, so Helya going to the maw, who was honestly justified at least to kill Odyn, had no business in the maw, only proves 1 of 2 things: the system was always flawed or it was broken when we killed her(ok or her pocket realm doesn't follow rules).

Well, you could look at it this way: Merely being killed by Frostmourne has marked Uther's soul; thus he wasn't able to ascend.
Sylvanus on the other hand was killed by a weapon originating in the maw and then ressurected by it's magic...
That must have left a mark on her soul as well; from the Arbiter's perspective; she was probably just returned to where she belonged.

Helya was the same kind of abomination... She was made an instrument of Odyn "creating his own afterlife, just with blackjack and hookers" a long time before we put her down.
She was pretty much defying the system for a very long time; and by the time we stopped her she pretty much played "mini-jailer"... now if that doesn't put you in the maw, what else does?

So, where is the soul of MU Gul'dan, obviously, he isn't the Runecarver?

Depending on how far he was gone; if his soul turned into a demonic one then very likely somewhere in the twisting nether, otherwise it's probably in the maw... and most souls don't fare so well in the maw.

Heck, after a day inthere our faction leaders were losing their minds... and Gul'dan has been stuck there for years. he very likely doesn't even know how to spell his name anymore.

Can ask the same where is the soul of Varian

How much do you know about warlocks?
They usually don't let a soul to go to waste (or rather the afterlife), they rip it apart and use it to fuel their magics.
That's one of the main reasons they have always been looked down upon.

[ohwell]

Can ask the same where is the soul of Varian

Gone. Fel magic uses and destroys souls unless they want to change that.

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Well, you could look at it this way: Merely being killed by Frostmourne has marked Uther's soul; thus he wasn't able to ascend.
Sylvanus on the other hand was killed by a weapon originating in the maw and then ressurected by it's magic...
That must have left a mark on her soul as well; from the Arbiter's perspective; she was probably just returned to where she belonged.

Helya was the same kind of abomination... She was made an instrument of Odyn "creating his own afterlife, just with blackjack and hookers" a long time before we put her down.
She was pretty much defying the system for a very long time; and by the time we stopped her she pretty much played "mini-jailer"... now if that doesn't put you in the maw, what else does?


Depending on how far he was gone; if his soul turned into a demonic one then very likely somewhere in the twisting nether, otherwise it's probably in the maw... and most souls don't fare so well in the maw.

Heck, after a day inthere our faction leaders were losing their minds... and Gul'dan has been stuck there for years. he very likely doesn't even know how to spell his name anymore.



How much do you know about warlocks?
They usually don't let a soul to go to waste (or rather the afterlife), they rip it apart and use it to fuel their magics.
That's one of the main reasons they have always been looked down upon.

Uther was able to ascend. He was just refusing to. He ascends immediately after the confrontation between Devos and the others. Still absolutely no reason for her to be in the Maw. Hell even Arthas might have avoided it if Devos and Uther hadn't intervened.

[tru]

Depends on how old Frostmourne is. Assuming frostmourne was made just before the Forzen Throne Gul'dan would be dead since he died at the end of the Second War which was a little over a decade before the third war.

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While I reckon this is true I think it would be such a bad twist to the point even trying to make a mystery around it is pointless

Most of SL is pretty pointless

[Alvito]

Nope, clearly the Primus is the Runecarver.

I thought that when we did the quest to put his dagger together, but the primus hasn't been missing long enough. Gul'dan short of some time travel nonsense can't be it either.

[Felrane]

Ya based on the color of the soul and we know Ursoc made it to the shadowlands I also think it was Xavius. Xavius was working for both the Legion and the Old gods and N'zoth told us that the Light had made a deal with Death. Xavius took over a realm of Life soaking up all that life energy. His corrupted/infused soul could have been made into a bomb just to take down the Arbiter. If N'zoth had won BFA he would have "saved us" from both Zovaal and the Lights plan with the power of Azeroth.

I think Gul'dan is done and has always been a Legion fan boy. If we see any orc it should be Ner'zul the one from WoD. He was useing all the Death runes and drags us into the Shadowlands for his fight. He was mainly using Void magic but that could easily be explained that they hadn't fleshed out Death magic yet or he was using it as a substitute since the Maw power was only in Northrend at that time. Either way I want to see Arthas and Ner'zul back as Lich Kings that leave to new planets to spread the power of the Jailer. Like old gods for void or Naruu for light!

As far as who the Rune carver is the easiest answer would be the Primus but I think he is a new Character all together. Zovaal talks about how he tried to create something that even the first ones tried to hide (helm/frostmorne) and that Zovaal was going to use it for his own plans. He could actually be what the maw was originally created for and Zovaal was tossed in later and took over.

[sunxsera]

hmmm .. thought the primus is the runecarver.

[Zmagoslav]

Uther was able to ascend. He was just refusing to. He ascends immediately after the confrontation between Devos and the others. Still absolutely no reason for her to be in the Maw. Hell even Arthas might have avoided it if Devos and Uther hadn't intervened.

Ok, so by your opinion who even fits into warcraft's version of hell?

[Ophenia]

They already said each cosmic force has it's own place it goes to when it dies.

Something I was wondering... Does that really make sense ?
I mean, all living races, are basically bound to the "Life" cosmic force. So they should go to the "Life" place when they die.

Shadowlands are a Death-related zone, so all the things bound to the "Death" should go there upon death (doesn't really make much sense I know).

What is suggested here is that all beings bound to Life, when they die, reach the opposite force's area, which isn't supposedly true for the other "opposites" (Light is opposed to Shadow, and I don't think dead Naaru end up in the Void's death zone when they die, same goes for Order and Disorder, Demons bound to Disorder go to the Twisting Nether which is the Disorder zone).

I'm probably overthinking that shit or misunderstanding something - But Life and Death seems to be the only two cosmic forces that exchange their "goods" () on a daily basis for some reason. Maybe "dying" is a similar process as "being imbued by the Fel/Light/Void", so you become bound to Death and hence, Life's "zone" doesn't exist at all.

[procne]

The more I read into the more sense it makes.
Gul'dan was the creator of death knights, and death knights rely on runes and runeblades.
It might have been his idea to put Nerzhul inside the Helm of domination too.

Ve'nari (I think it was her) warned us that Runecarver should not be trusted (pot and kettle I geuss ^^).

Of course that doesn't say much and Blizzard could have someone else in their mind anyway