Ion's pathetic response to a tweet....

[korijenkins]

When Ion is no longer in charge of Warcraft it'll just be the next guy up that is causing literally every problem with warcraft personally.

Whoever greenlights terrible ideas is usually to blame. The last handful of guys running the show have been absolutely awful. While it's a trend that they take the majority of the blame, it's absolutely warranted.

[MidnyteTV]

Fanboy? Hardly, I'm just strongly opposed to whining and whiners like yourself. YOU are the one that is giving them your money, then bawls when you dont get the shiny. There hasn't been any Blizzard software installed on my computer since Blizzcon 2017. I followed the advice I gave you, and voted with my wallet. Blizzard follows the dollar signs, and doesn't give a shit about your tears. You still fail to grasp that.

You can call me names all you want. You chose to discuss this, you can leave. Especially since I've been pwning you at every step.

Secondly, WTF are you doing here if you havent had a blizz game installed in over 3 years? are you one of these "I am so above Blizzard games yet I can't stop discussing them" nerds?

And yes, I am literally on the cusp of unsubscribing. I love the game very much and am enjoying playing with friends, but am finding it very difficult to progress my character due to this abysmal loot system. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt and waiting for their alleged solution. What you fail to grasp is the notion of "the buck stops here." Clearly you have never been in charge of anything of substance.

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Whoever greenlights terrible ideas is usually to blame. The last handful of guys running the show have been absolutely awful. While it's a trend that they take the majority of the blame, it's absolutely warranted.

Thank you.

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Nope, not trying to loop activision into it. I saying that there are more factors than Ion in the equation. (E.G.: I guarantee you that Ion did not have much say in SL release date). I understand the phrase perfectly, but the fact remains that the glory and blunders belong to the team. The buck stops here is used when people need a fall guy. Someone to take the blame. Well, in any sort of creative work the it's the team's responsability. If you NEED someone to blame, sure, blame Ion. It won't change the fact that, while he is partly to blame, the game is created by a massive team, each of them making individual decisions that affect the whole game, Encounter designer, Lead Class Designer, Art Directors, Engineers and whatnot. At the end of the day, Ion can ask for changes and more ideas, but he has to trust his team. That is what Team Work is all about.

So while you are not wrong per se in blaming Ion. You are just oversimplifying because you need a witch to burn. You are literally making suppositions on how he works just so you can bash him. Just let go of the hate man, criticize the game, not the person.

Also, Ion is literally listed as a Director on Legion(again I think he was assistant director, but still)

One thing I can tell you is this: A good leader rejects bad ideas and lets their team members know why. That way, they won't present shit in the future. Thats leadership.

[Seranthor]

You can call me names all you want. You chose to discuss this, you can leave. Especially since I've been pwning you at every step.

Secondly, WTF are you doing here if you havent had a blizz game installed in over 3 years? are you one of these "I am so above Blizzard games yet I can't stop discussing them" nerds?

And yes, I am literally on the cusp of unsubscribing. I love the game very much and am enjoying playing with friends, but am finding it very difficult to progress my character due to this abysmal loot system. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt and waiting for their alleged solution. What you fail to grasp is the notion of "the buck stops here." Clearly you have never been in charge of anything of substance.

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Thank you.

Bobby Kotick LOVES folks like you... takes your money... and feeds you garbage and you'll behave like 'Thank you sir, may I have some more, mmmm yum, this garbage is delicious, can I have some of those brown sprinkles on the next helping, please sir'

[MoanaLisa]

all in all, regardless of every detail of this discussion, i for myself prefer to slowly but steadily work towards my gear/BiS. some of it may be a bit RNG (some!) but for the most part i wanna work dedicated towards that goal with the straight knowledge of what i get at the end of the day.

therefore xpacs with badges will always be my favorite ones. some drops, some RNG, some valor, some badges. xpacs like TBC or WotlK did a million better job when it comes down to gear systems. at least for my preference.

Unexpectedly I find myself in 100% agreement with Niwes on this: I much prefer deterministic systems for gearing, even if one has to go the slow and steady route to get to the destination. Some RNG is acceptable on top of that if the RNG primarily short cuts your path forward by a bit.

[Aggressive]

Bro, you don't know what the highlighted word means. If he was objectively bad, he would of been replaced as it would be hurting the bottomline. I dislike like a lot of what Ion says (especially the ripcord comments from the beta) but this is not a lawyery answer, this is him saying it would be a bad move to make a kneejerk fix mid tier. You can pine for the days of old, but GC was not flawless, he upset the player base on numerous occasions as well. It is your opinion that he is bad at his job, but it is not objectively proven. Believe it or not, a lot of people like the state of the game, and like the direction.


ob·jec·tive·ly

adverb
in a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.

And a lot of people DO NOT like the state of the game. Nor it's direction. Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing all this shit about valor upgrading.

[roboscorcher]

https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...26860723638274

Continue to discuss the right approach for raiding and world bosses? We're 8 days from blizzcon, they've got nothing ready to show and this expansion's gearing has been a shitshow of RNG and timesinks with not much to show for it.

Just bring back valor vendors for raiders. It's not that hard. Ion always tries to safe face while not reverting completely. This guy has done SO MUCH DAMAGE to the game by taking things away just to massage his ego.

LOL chill my dude. Let them make the big announcements at Blizzcon, THEN you can get mad that they didn't go with your niche ideas.

[Deferionus]

Ghostcrawler was just a class designer >.> He didn't have effect on the whole game and was the one who started the whole bring the player not the class homogenization nonsense.

Ghostcrawler was a lead developer on WoW when he left. Last expac he worked on was MoP.

Far as "Bring the player not the class" it was a good objective at the time. In vanilla and BC going into Wrath, when this was originally stated, if you played a paladin you were expected to heal. Warriors were the tank. You would bring a set number of each class for their buff and stack something like warlocks outside of that. "Bring the player not the class" was the objective to make each specializations such as prot paladin, ret paladin, balance druid, shadow priest actually viable.

Don't get me wrong - I like BC class design. Everyone was unique and had defined niches. It was the best expansion for class fantasy outside of Legion. But the game definitely had real problems when you only had one or two viable tank classes and you had trouble doing dungeons as DPS because of tank shortages.

[Seranthor]

Unexpectedly I find myself in 100% agreement with Niwes on this: I much prefer deterministic systems for gearing, even if one has to go the slow and steady route to get to the destination. Some RNG is acceptable on top of that if the RNG primarily short cuts your path forward by a bit.

I cant disagree, the obscene levels of RNG were one of the things that drove me away.

[Baroclinic]

handling raid loot is too difficult mid-tier?! YOU LITERALLY NERFED LOOT DROPS IN THE 2ND WEEK! IT ISN'T HARD TO UNDO A STUPID CHANGE!

ROTFLOL, this. Also the timewalking Raid drops that later for the bat to the face to match.

I think the real problem is the $$$ for them.

[Makabreska]

You can call me names all you want. You chose to discuss this, you can leave. Especially since I've been pwning you at every step.

This is not LFR m8, you don't have to "pwn noobs" here to feel superior.

[Jastall]

You seriously believe heroic dungeon blues were the same item level as the 10 man raid? Really?

Only the epic from the last boss was 200.

I was trying to dig up wrath 25 drop rates and I’m not able to get online to check, but I’m pretty sure it was 4-5 drops in 25 man.

For reference it takes a 27 man in SL for 4 drops. It is 15% chance to drop per person (3 for 20).

Also, no loot can drop that nobody can equip.

And people can use the same items across specs, no more plate Int gear that gets used by 1 spec of 1 class and sharded if no holy paladin is there or wants it.

And no guaranteed item every single week that can cover all 16 slots and be up to the max quality.

No entirely separate mythic+ gearing system.

Etc etc.

I do think raids should drop 4 per 20, been saying that since day 1. It also makes the 10-30 flex scaling so simple.

But gearing now is still absolutely night and day faster with more options than a paltry vendor with only a few decent items on it that if you didn’t need them you were SoL.

The overall gearing right IS faster I agree, no two ways about it and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to check their numbers. Valor gear was never the ideal some people have of ultra deterministic gear, it allowed you to get some offpieces after a while, and some tier pieces (starting in TotC if memory serves) after a longer while. M+ and the Vault already have it beat by providing great gear value for time spent, up to 226 which is Mythic equal; Valor gear never, ever became 25H equal.

All that said, I still feel it's unsatisfying to loot so few items from raids. If I didn't like M+ my gearing would have been very, very slow. I have 3 raid pieces despite having AOTC for 3 weeks now. Everything else comes from the +11 to +14 keys I run regularly. So I could give up raids and still gear up at a fairly steady pace, especially once the new Valor is in play, but could not give up M+ at all. The raid Vault slot in particular is close to worthless unless you're deep into Mythic, I think.

I don't think the solution is yet another currency just for raids or whatever. Just up the drop rates, that's literally all that is needed I think.

[Aggressive]

And another thing. People claim that feedback was given on how they wanted loot to be done this expansion. Please someone throw me links, or a official poll on world of warcraft, or something posted by developers, where they took feedback on loot dropping from the bosses. Because I am always always looking at forums, and different sites and I have never ever once ran into shit about loot dropping like they have it now. So all this stuff about this is the feedback given on loot is just people spewing that shit from their ass.

[Sluvs]

One thing I can tell you is this: A good leader rejects bad ideas and lets their team members know why. That way, they won't present shit in the future. Thats leadership.

No, that is a fraction of what leadership entails.

Here is the problem that I have with your argument, you do not know what he refused, only what he approved(and only a fraction of that).
You believe that he micromanages every little decision his team makes.
But most of all, you have no clue of what and how he does, but pretend that you do, and you are completely unwilling to give the slight amount of credit to him.

That is why when there is a WoW panel, while he can be there, he is not alone, there is a BUNCH of directors with him.

So far he has shown to communicate with the community way more than other directors.
He has shown that he listens and implements feedback.
He has shown that he can own up to mistakes.
He has shown that he tries to be honest.
And he also has shownto have ambition and is not afraid to take risks.

I don't know about you, but that sounds like a pretty good leader to me.

[Tojara]

And another thing. People claim that feedback was given on how they wanted loot to be done this expansion. Please someone throw me links, or a official poll on world of warcraft, or something posted by developers, where they took feedback on loot dropping from the bosses. Because I am always always looking at forums, and different sites and I have never ever once ran into shit about loot dropping like they have it now. So all this stuff about this is the feedback given on loot is just people spewing that shit from their ass.

I mean if you browsed the forums at any regularity, it was just filled with people complaining about RNG loot in the form of WF/TF and random sockets appearing on gear. That feedback was everywhere, and I'm sure they cross referenced it even with the Classic version of the game where people were "happy" that when loot dropped, you could essentially be done for that tier.

This is literally why they experimented with corruption in 8.3, and the inherent corruption problems aside (prior to deterministic ways of getting it a few months in) it wasn't a bad system. Was it perfect? No, but I'd assure you if it launched with the design that was iterated on months later, people probably would've looked back on it far more positively.

The feedback was certainly there. Let loot be loot was fairly popular statement amongst the community and forum goers, so it's obvious where they got the feedback from. Getting something to drop, and not having to worry about sockets or the iLvL getting boosted randomly was superior to a lot of people. With that approach, it's natural that they dial back loot acquisition some, but one could argue (and it's certainly being argued everywhere a few weeks after Shadowlands release), that they might have went a bit too far dialing it back on the PvE side of things.

It's funny because there was loads of bitching and moaning about the 550 conquest cap in PvP prior to release, saying that it's not enough and that you should be able to raise the cap. Post launch, how much bitching and moaning do you see about acquiring gear from PvP? Zero. Why? Because it just works, and is arguably the best gearing system in PvP (and maybe all of WoW) has ever been. You basically get the stats you want (for the most part), you don't really have to raid and there's built in catch up mechanics if you decide to start playing a new character or take a break down the road for a few weeks.

For a first look the valor point changes look wonderful, and they even hinted at giving raiders some love as well. Given that Blizzcon event is less than 10 days away and the 0.5 patch just launched, I'm going to assume that more details are going to arise very soon about what to look for coming in about a month for the 0.5 patch, and a few months for the .1 patch.

I normally wouldn't give credit, but compared to Legion and BFA (especially BFA) they aren't just sitting on their hands waiting to completely overhaul core aspects of the game until the final fucking patch. It took about a year in BFA for them to actually fix a lot of the dungeons for M+, and they've iterated on the ones in Shadowlands several times in the first couple months of the game. Instead of just a wet fart of class changes after the first week of heroic, we've gotten several tuning passes in both PvP/PvE in the first couple months, which is sort of uncommon in the grand scheme of things. The 0.5 patch actually looks promising from a preliminary glance because that's normally the type of systems change we get to experience either half way through an expansion, or at the very last patch (look how long it took them to fix legendary items in Legion?).

[Niwes]

Unexpectedly I find myself in 100% agreement with Niwes on this: I much prefer deterministic systems for gearing, even if one has to go the slow and steady route to get to the destination. Some RNG is acceptable on top of that if the RNG primarily short cuts your path forward by a bit.

nice intro! i mark this day red in my calendar too, cause there is not the slightest to disagree, in what you said. its nice when 2 ppl with different philosophies and mostly contrary opinions agree. even when once in life! /happysmile

[Aggressive]

I mean if you browsed the forums at any regularity, it was just filled with people complaining about RNG loot in the form of WF/TF and random sockets appearing on gear. That feedback was everywhere, and I'm sure they cross referenced it even with the Classic version of the game where people were "happy" that when loot dropped, you could essentially be done for that tier.

This is literally why they experimented with corruption in 8.3, and the inherent corruption problems aside (prior to deterministic ways of getting it a few months in) it wasn't a bad system. Was it perfect? No, but I'd assure you if it launched with the design that was iterated on months later, people probably would've looked back on it far more positively.

The feedback was certainly there. Let loot be loot was fairly popular statement amongst the community and forum goers, so it's obvious where they got the feedback from. Getting something to drop, and not having to worry about sockets or the iLvL getting boosted randomly was superior to a lot of people. With that approach, it's natural that they dial back loot acquisition some, but one could argue (and it's certainly being argued everywhere a few weeks after Shadowlands release), that they might have went a bit too far dialing it back on the PvE side of things.

It's funny because there was loads of bitching and moaning about the 550 conquest cap in PvP prior to release, saying that it's not enough and that you should be able to raise the cap. Post launch, how much bitching and moaning do you see about acquiring gear from PvP? Zero. Why? Because it just works, and is arguably the best gearing system in PvP (and maybe all of WoW) has ever been. You basically get the stats you want (for the most part), you don't really have to raid and there's built in catch up mechanics if you decide to start playing a new character or take a break down the road for a few weeks.

For a first look the valor point changes look wonderful, and they even hinted at giving raiders some love as well. Given that Blizzcon event is less than 10 days away and the 0.5 patch just launched, I'm going to assume that more details are going to arise very soon about what to look for coming in about a month for the 0.5 patch, and a few months for the .1 patch.

I normally wouldn't give credit, but compared to Legion and BFA (especially BFA) they aren't just sitting on their hands waiting to completely overhaul core aspects of the game until the final fucking patch. It took about a year in BFA for them to actually fix a lot of the dungeons for M+, and they've iterated on the ones in Shadowlands several times in the first couple months of the game. Instead of just a wet fart of class changes after the first week of heroic, we've gotten several tuning passes in both PvP/PvE in the first couple months, which is sort of uncommon in the grand scheme of things. The 0.5 patch actually looks promising from a preliminary glance because that's normally the type of systems change we get to experience either half way through an expansion, or at the very last patch (look how long it took them to fix legendary items in Legion?).

Thank you for your reply. I won't lie they are making changes kind of quickly. I just feel raid isnot beneficial like it use to be. I feel I get gear mainly from PvP now, and as a full on raider that should not be the case. I despise PvP. never really liked it. Too imbalanced in my opinion. But in order to raid and have a viable spot in raid this is the quickest way of getting gear. So why mess up a good thing. Is it so you can get others into PvP. Seems a slight bit shady to get people to do something they can't stand.

Also if they can have a vendor for PvP. Why in the hell can't they have one for PvE that is equally as good if not better.

[Jastall]

Thank you for your reply. I won't lie they are making changes kind of quickly. I just feel raid isnot beneficial like it use to be. I feel I get gear mainly from PvP now, and as a full on raider that should not be the case. I despise PvP. never really liked it. Too imbalanced in my opinion. But in order to raid and have a viable spot in raid this is the quickest way of getting gear. So why mess up a good thing. Is it so you can get others into PvP. Seems a slight bit shady to get people to do something they can't stand.

Also if they can have a vendor for PvP. Why in the hell can't they have one for PvE that is equally as good if not better.

Because players don't drop gear. The modes are entirely different and require different solutions.

[Daedius]

Just bring back Seals...

[Argorwal]

https://wotlkdb.com/?items=&filter=c...crv=0;qu=3#0-2

man look at all these not 200 item level blues from heroic dungeons. I guess I was wrong

You’ll also notice how epics back then had a bigger stat budget than rares. They didn’t normalize them then.

Heroic dungeon blues weren’t touching Naxx 10 epics.

[Aggressive]

Because players don't drop gear. The modes are entirely different and require different solutions.

Well they need to come up with a solution quickly. Cause believe it or not, no matter what the wow fanboys say, NOT everyone is down with this shit like taking 2 months just to get a weapon at and above iLvL 200. Things like that is what can push a person away. And not everyone wants to hop into PvP just to get gear.