6% Scouring Tithe nerf

[Th3Scourge]

How so? Affliction is in an amazing spot for raiding sure, but that's just one spec.
And a malefic rapture nerf makes sense for single target, but this is just going to put locks in general even further back in M+ when they're not getting any help with big packs.

You don't bring locks for pack damage..

[Jester Joe]

You don't bring locks for pack damage..

You mean you don't bring locks at all because there's better casters to bring.

Let's not make some silly argument of "But boss damage!!" when pack damage matters just as much, especially on fortified week.

[Th3Scourge]

You mean you don't bring locks at all because there's better casters to bring.

Let's not make some silly argument of "But boss damage!!" when pack damage matters just as much, especially on fortified week.

? There's plenty of warlock representation in high keys, both in 15+ and 20+ brackets, plenty of locks over 2k io and plenty timed 15-20+ keys, which are almost exclusively fortified weeks. You still need priority ST damage on fort weeks.

Just because you don't get picked in pugs doesn't mean no one bring locks.

[bledgor]

Plenty = one of the lowest by class, and pretty low for specs overall. You also neglect peoples view of performing specs. Aff was decent at M+, not great already. This will hit them pretty hard (6-8 ST, more AoE) meaning people will drop them really hard in pubs, which makes up an overwhelming majority of the content normal people experience.

[Jester Joe]

? There's plenty of warlock representation in high keys, both in 15+ and 20+ brackets, plenty of locks over 2k io and plenty timed 15-20+ keys, which are almost exclusively fortified weeks. You still need priority ST damage on fort weeks.

Just because you don't get picked in pugs doesn't mean no one bring locks.

Again, pointless jabs do not make for a clever argument. For one, I don't waste my time pugging.

Second off, I already said that locks are in a good spot currently, but they're still not the most popular in M+ because there's better. Something you aren't disproving by saying "BUT PEOPLE DO HAVE LOCKS?!". So? People run MW monk too, doesn't mean they're fine.

Third off, this isn't about the current state of locks, it's about how the nerf is going to drop them even further in M+.

[burek]

? There's plenty of warlock representation in high keys, both in 15+ and 20+ brackets, plenty of locks over 2k io and plenty timed 15-20+ keys, which are almost exclusively fortified weeks. You still need priority ST damage on fort weeks.

Just because you don't get picked in pugs doesn't mean no one bring locks.

Statistics are visible to everyone, not sure what's the point of this bullshit. The only class that has lower representation in those brackets is warrior. Calling 1% plenty when others have higher than 10%....

Regardless, this nerf is either just a test or part of some bigger change. Otherwise it would have been hotfixed in a long time ago.

[Th3Scourge]

Again, pointless jabs do not make for a clever argument. For one, I don't waste my time pugging.

Second off, I already said that locks are in a good spot currently, but they're still not the most popular in M+ because there's better. Something you aren't disproving by saying "BUT PEOPLE DO HAVE LOCKS?!". So? People run MW monk too, doesn't mean they're fine.

Third off, this isn't about the current state of locks, it's about how the nerf is going to drop them even further in M+.

If you don't pug and already get into groups as a warlock then what is your point? Popularity is driven by the meta. Just because a class is not the absolute top performing doesn't mean it's not more than capable.

Saying shit like "you don't bring locks at all because there's better casters to bring" is not backed up by the evidence. If no one was taking warlocks then you'd would see zero representation in higher keys, which just isn't the case

How is it going to drop even further in M+? According to who? Aff scales incredibly well with gear. It's still going to top boss fights, priority add damage, and do incredibly well overall dps.

- - - Updated - - -

Statistics are visible to everyone, not sure what's the point of this bullshit. The only class that has lower representation in those brackets is warrior. Calling 1% plenty when others have higher than 10%....

Regardless, this nerf is either just a test or part of some bigger change. Otherwise it would have been hotfixed in a long time ago.

And there's more representation in 20+ keys of affliction warlocks than there is unholy DKs, which are considered a meta spec, so what's your point?

[Jester Joe]

If you don't pug and already get into groups as a warlock then what is your point? Popularity is driven by the meta. Just because a class is not the absolute top performing doesn't mean it's not more than capable.

Because I'm not so ignorant as to assume my situation is everyone's situation. My friends/guildies are willing to accept that I'm going to fall behind on trash. PUGs are instead just going to grab the fire mage because you get boss damage and AoE damage.

Saying shit like "you don't bring locks at all because there's better casters to bring" is not backed up by the evidence. If no one was taking warlocks then you'd would see zero representation in higher keys, which just isn't the case

I'm not sure how you're completely missing the point here still.

It IS backed up by the data YOU mentioned already. Locks are tied as 4th most picked ranged with Shadow priests for M+ at 15 and up.

Except you know, dungeon groups can't have 4 dps, so there's already 3 specs that are going to get those DPS spots before someone picks a warlock. It drops even further when you factor in melee.

So, you have a class that already isn't sitting at the top of the charts for Mythic+...and it's getting nerfed. Meanwhile the kings of M+ are untouched. So a class that already is just doing fine in M+ is just going to do worse now. And you don't see how that's an issue?

How is it going to drop even further in M+? According to who? Aff scales incredibly well with gear. It's still going to top boss fights, priority add damage, and do incredibly well overall dps.

Because it's getting nerfed. Why are you dancing around this?

[Th3Scourge]

Because I'm not so ignorant as to assume my situation is everyone's situation. My friends/guildies are willing to accept that I'm going to fall behind on trash. PUGs are instead just going to grab the fire mage because you get boss damage and AoE damage.



I'm not sure how you're completely missing the point here still.

It IS backed up by the data YOU mentioned already. Locks are tied as 4th most picked ranged with Shadow priests for M+ at 15 and up.

Except you know, dungeon groups can't have 4 dps, so there's already 3 specs that are going to get those DPS spots before someone picks a warlock. It drops even further when you factor in melee.

So, you have a class that already isn't sitting at the top of the charts for Mythic+...and it's getting nerfed. Meanwhile the kings of M+ are untouched. So a class that already is just doing fine in M+ is just going to do worse now. And you don't see how that's an issue?



Because it's getting nerfed. Why are you dancing around this?

Except that's just not true. The fire mage MAY be picked more often, but warlocks are still being picked, just as spriests are, warriors, DKs, DHs etc. PUGs picking 'meta' classes has been the case since forever.

By your flawed logic, anything dps picked outside of fire mage, boomie, outlaw or MM is never picked in PUGs.

[Jester Joe]

Except that's just not true. The fire mage MAY be picked more often, but warlocks are still being picked, just as spriests are, warriors, DKs, DHs etc. PUGs picking 'meta' classes has been the case since forever.

By your flawed logic, anything dps picked outside of fire mage, boomie, outlaw or MM is never picked in PUGs.

Except data proves you wrong.

The data that you yourself mentioned. It's not a MAY. It's an overwhelming difference. If people have the choice between a fire mage or a aff lock at similar ilvls/r.io, they'd pick the mage. It's not an argument. Of course warlocks do keys though overall, but it doesn't change that they're not some meta pick. And pointing out that this nerf is going to hurt m+ isn't saying that warlock NEEDS to be meta, it's just the fact that warlock already brings nearly nothing to M+, and they're already NOT meta, so nerfing them is just hurting them further in that regards.

By YOUR logic, people bring MW monk and Holy priest to M+20s, so they must be fine right? Completely ignore the drastic difference in percent brought though.

Or you know, prot warriors are still doing +20s, so they must be fine right?
Ignoring that they're only .9% of the tanks doing the keys at that level.

A spec being picked for something doesn't mean they're fine. It doesn't mean they don't need attention.


You're not arguing facts or anything here, you're just trying to discredit the facts by saying it's "flawed" without any actual information. And the only fallback you've had is "Warlocks scale well!" despite the fact that ya know, affliction specifically has been trash in M+ since the start of BfA.

[Th3Scourge]

Except data proves you wrong.

The data that you yourself mentioned. It's not a MAY. It's an overwhelming difference. If people have the choice between a fire mage or a aff lock at similar ilvls/r.io, they'd pick the mage. It's not an argument. Of course warlocks do keys though overall, but it doesn't change that they're not some meta pick. And pointing out that this nerf is going to hurt m+ isn't saying that warlock NEEDS to be meta, it's just the fact that warlock already brings nearly nothing to M+, and they're already NOT meta, so nerfing them is just hurting them further in that regards.

By YOUR logic, people bring MW monk and Holy priest to M+20s, so they must be fine right? Completely ignore the drastic difference in percent brought though.

Or you know, prot warriors are still doing +20s, so they must be fine right?
Ignoring that they're only .9% of the tanks doing the keys at that level.

A spec being picked for something doesn't mean they're fine. It doesn't mean they don't need attention.


You're not arguing facts or anything here, you're just trying to discredit the facts by saying it's "flawed" without any actual information. And the only fallback you've had is "Warlocks scale well!" despite the fact that ya know, affliction specifically has been trash in M+ since the start of BfA.

So it was just some freak accident that an affliction lock was part of the first 20+ key this season? That was almost 2 months ago with shitty gear. Warlocks are absolutely fine for M+ at any level. Just because PUGs pick one class over another does not mean they are not represented, because they clearly are. You're trying to argue that PUGs ONLY pick meta classes, which just isn't true.

[Jester Joe]

So it was just some freak accident that an affliction lock was part of the first 20+ key this season? That was almost 2 months ago with shitty gear. Warlocks are absolutely fine for M+ at any level. Just because PUGs pick one class over another does not mean they are not represented, because they clearly are. You're trying to argue that PUGs ONLY pick meta classes, which just isn't true.

So what are you trying to argue here?

You said locks scales great with gear.
And you're also trying to say "see, there was a lock in the first 20 when gear was bad!"

So by that logic, locks should be meta since they would have only gotten better since then, and yet...they still aren't picked as much as other casters.

And I never said they ONLY pick meta, you should re-read what I said.

[Nadiru]

So what are you trying to argue here?

You said locks scales great with gear.
And you're also trying to say "see, there was a lock in the first 20 when gear was bad!"

So by that logic, locks should be meta since they would have only gotten better since then, and yet...they still aren't picked as much as other casters.

And I never said they ONLY pick meta, you should re-read what I said.

Warlocks just aren't as popular among players as other classes. They never have been, really. It's also why I think they're getting nerfed: it spares the people who feel like they have to play "the meta class" from having to play one Blizz knows isn't very popular.

[enigma77]

Blizzard wants you to play the superior spec, Destruction.

Rejoice.

[Nadiru]

Blizzard wants you to play the superior spec, Destruction.

Rejoice.

With all of that improvement Destruction got in beta, right? Gimme a break.

[Inukashi]

20% nerf to MR ist 8% overall nerf. Together with 5% on destro buff, I think affi now is only 2% ahead of destro in ST and far behind in MT.

[LordVargK]

and 20% nerf on Malefic Rapture... as always they dont know what they are doing with warlock

That's justifed though. Affliction would only scale further ahead as the expansion goes on.

[enigma77]

With all of that improvement Destruction got in beta, right? Gimme a break.

Destruction didn't need any improvements. It was already pretty much perfect in BFA and very little changed for a reason.

[Nadiru]

Destruction didn't need any improvements. It was already pretty much perfect in BFA and very little changed for a reason.

Except they pulled the one build that Destro players wanted from Beta: Rain of Chaos.

[enigma77]

Except they pulled the one build that Destro players wanted from Beta: Rain of Chaos.

It's still very good in Mythic +.