Why not badge gear?

[Mlangs]

Read they were reintroducing valor points and got excited, thought I might resub. Then I read what these “Valor” points actually are and....

Is it so hard for them to bring back badge gear? Something to work towards weekly like back in BC or Wrath? I understand “this game is not that game” but it works wonderfully in Final Fantasy. I unsubbed because I couldn’t deal with the toxicity of random M+ play this expac, too much going on lately but without that and with just Raid Finder there’s not much else to feel like you’re actually progressing your gear. A weekly capped badge system with a vendor would be a HUGE carrot on a stick. Doesn’t need to be the best gear, maybe normal Raid level as it was historically.

Seriously, have they ever mentioned why they completely ignore this concept that they themselves initially used?

*Unable to post on the official forums since I don’t have a sub

[Dhrizzle]

Read they were reintroducing valor points and got excited, thought I might resub. Then I read what these “Valor” points actually are and....

Is it so hard for them to bring back badge gear? Something to work towards weekly like back in BC or Wrath? I understand “this game is not that game” but it works wonderfully in Final Fantasy. I unsubbed because I couldn’t deal with the toxicity of random M+ play this expac, too much going on lately but without that and with just Raid Finder there’s not much else to feel like you’re actually progressing your gear. A weekly capped badge system with a vendor would be a HUGE carrot on a stick. Doesn’t need to be the best gear, maybe normal Raid level as it was historically.

Seriously, have they ever mentioned why they completely ignore this concept that they themselves initially used?

*Unable to post on the official forums since I don’t have a sub

When currencies were being used people complained that they were the main way to get loot and they'd rather pick it up from bosses.

[ellieg]

Read they were reintroducing valor points and got excited, thought I might resub. Then I read what these “Valor” points actually are and....

Is it so hard for them to bring back badge gear? Something to work towards weekly like back in BC or Wrath? I understand “this game is not that game” but it works wonderfully in Final Fantasy. I unsubbed because I couldn’t deal with the toxicity of random M+ play this expac, too much going on lately but without that and with just Raid Finder there’s not much else to feel like you’re actually progressing your gear. A weekly capped badge system with a vendor would be a HUGE carrot on a stick. Doesn’t need to be the best gear, maybe normal Raid level as it was historically.

Seriously, have they ever mentioned why they completely ignore this concept that they themselves initially used?

*Unable to post on the official forums since I don’t have a sub

If you want normal raid quality gear, that's practically what the 197 ilvl covenant gear is. Thar cov gear is more than enough to do everything but the highest content.

[huth]

Because Badge gear is not a solution to the issue they're trying to fix here. They don't want to give you another source for gear, they want to give you some consolation reward when you don't get any.

[Argorwal]

Read they were reintroducing valor points and got excited, thought I might resub. Then I read what these “Valor” points actually are and....

Is it so hard for them to bring back badge gear? Something to work towards weekly like back in BC or Wrath? I understand “this game is not that game” but it works wonderfully in Final Fantasy. I unsubbed because I couldn’t deal with the toxicity of random M+ play this expac, too much going on lately but without that and with just Raid Finder there’s not much else to feel like you’re actually progressing your gear. A weekly capped badge system with a vendor would be a HUGE carrot on a stick. Doesn’t need to be the best gear, maybe normal Raid level as it was historically.

Seriously, have they ever mentioned why they completely ignore this concept that they themselves initially used?

*Unable to post on the official forums since I don’t have a sub

They did make currency gear essentially equal to normal raid gear.

A full 197 covenant armor set.

If you want to yolo some random BGs it’s a full set of 197 in every slot.

Both are just 3 item levels under normal raid.

[kaintk]

When currencies were being used people complained that they were the main way to get loot and they'd rather pick it up from bosses.

well its stupid, because valoring the gear is an optional solution to make the rng less rng

yeah you can loot from boss, but if your bis dont drop, you can buy it with valor point

its why blizzard just making the valor point only available for mm+ and only for upgrade is not the right way to do it..

just make a valor seller for each dungeon, you try to loot stuff on boss and at the same time, doing valor point , so if your loot dont drop, you buy it

the should also make it that valor point can drop on hm too but really slowly if you want to buy mythic stuff, so you will make happy the mm+ players who will drop a lot of valor on mm+ dungeons and make happy the casual players who will upgrade their stuff too on their hm dungeons but very more slowly, so i think everyone would be happy..

[Adam Jensen]

When currencies were being used people complained that they were the main way to get loot and they'd rather pick it up from bosses.

And it was mindless QQ. People did raids and dungeons. It was fine.

[kaintk]

They did make currency gear essentially equal to normal raid gear.

A full 197 covenant armor set.

If you want to yolo some random BGs it’s a full set of 197 in every slot.

Both are just 3 item levels under normal raid.

yeah i did that, i dont do any mm+ and raid, so the casual in me was happy for this full stuff upgrading to 197, hope they keep this for all the expansion, something like a new convenant set at each new raid to make the casuals happy

- - - Updated - - -

And it was mindless QQ. People did raids and dungeons. It was fine.

tbh , only the hardcore gamers qq about all of this.. they are like aroudn 10% of the player base, the casuals never talk, so you just heard the hardcore version of forum, im sure you ask any casual if he loved the valor point for gear or titan forged, they will tell you it was awesome

[Dhrizzle]

And it was mindless QQ. People did raids and dungeons. It was fine.

Whatever they do someone will give us "mindless QQ," we need badge gear, we hate badge gear, get rid of Titanforging, give back Titanforging, let us use badges instead of Titanforging...
What Blizz have to do is listen to all the mindless QQ, watch how people play the game and try to make decisions so they listen to the mindless QQ that gets people playing.

[Mlangs]

yeah i did that, i dont do any mm+ and raid, so the casual in me was happy for this full stuff upgrading to 197, hope they keep this for all the expansion, something like a new convenant set at each new raid to make the casuals happy

- - - Updated - - -



tbh , only the hardcore gamers qq about all of this.. they are like aroudn 10% of the player base, the casuals never talk, so you just heard the hardcore version of forum, im sure you ask any casual if he loved the valor point for gear or titan forged, they will tell you it was awesome

I wouldn’t of called myself casual back in BC. Clearing SSC and The Eye when they were relevant. I fell off by the time Black Temple came around but...I loved the badge vendor. Whether it was for my alts or to fill in random spots or for a different spec. Covenant gear is fine, but long term we don’t know how it’s going to go. Are we going to be stuck upgrading the same piece of gear? I know it’s semantics and just pixels, but upgrading the item level and stats on an item is less exciting than a brand new shiny axe or helmet.

Hopefully they add new sets in later tiers, but the WoW player in me has doubts they will.

[clevin]

yeah you can loot from boss, but if your bis dont drop, you can buy it with valor point

And that's the problem. They don't want anything close to BiS to be bought with points and I agree. When VP was first introduced and used, we didnt have M+. Now we have multiple ways to get gear:

Intro level gear
Heroics
M0
LFR
Covenant
Honor from random BGs
Vault

Depending on where you start and what you're after, you can get to 195 or better from that. 195 is plenty for anything up though ~ M5-8, normal CN and way more than you need for WQs.

The problem has been that you stall at 195-200 unless you want to raid heroic CN, do rated PVP or do M10+, with the exception of the Great Vault which is only a single piece per week. The new valor system lets people progress through M+ and, even if the drops initially aren't upgrades, the VP you get can eventually make them upgrades over time.

Before, my 200 geared balance druid had no real reason to do M2-10s aside from doing some to get vault rewards. Now, I can do them and get VP so that M+ drops can eventually be upgraded more. It gives me a reason to do stuff that's not either just busy work (gathering anima, etc) or killing time. We can debate the precise VP needed for upgrades and other implementation details, but as a concept, I like it.

[Sondrelk]

As I have said in other threads.

If you want badge gear then you need to consider that it would have to be limited in some way, most likely weekly. And then all you have is weekly vault except somewhat deterministic, and therefore something which has to be weaker overall whether in amount or quality.

Not to mention that having both the weekly vault AND quality badge gear is exactly the kind of loot avalanche that makes the rest of the game suffer. So you would likely have to consider choosing one over the other, in which case the question simply becomes whether you are willing to sacrifice the weekly vault for even less loot.

[Echocho]

Yes it would be great for casuals and alts to run a few daily heroics and LFR, cap your points and slowly buy your way to a set of great gear. Like you said it works wonderfully in FFXIV and it used to work wonderfully in WoW.

Back in WotLK for example. You got the second best quality gear slowly but surely. Now we have the covenant campaign and that just ends. Casuals are left without a satisfying long term gameplay loop with something to work towards.

But no if casuals can get good gear too the key pushers, raiders and rankers lose their special snowflake feeling, Blizzard losing subs to FFXIV be damned.

[Geckoo]

As I have said in other threads.

If you want badge gear then you need to consider that it would have to be limited in some way, most likely weekly. And then all you have is weekly vault except somewhat deterministic, and therefore something which has to be weaker overall whether in amount or quality.

Not to mention that having both the weekly vault AND quality badge gear is exactly the kind of loot avalanche that makes the rest of the game suffer. So you would likely have to consider choosing one over the other, in which case the question simply becomes whether you are willing to sacrifice the weekly vault for even less loot.

The thing is that as long as there are upgrades and they are limited by time, you can easily set a base ilvl that is easy to achieve (200ilvl right now for example), so there is no problem or negative impact in the game if loot up to that base illvl is abundant.

So since valor points will already be capped weekly, it would be okay if you have to choose between spending your points on a specific piece of loot without any upgrades or on upgrading any of your existing M+ slots. If you also factor time, how long it takes to buy a piece or upgrade a piece, and you end up with a system that gives different gearing choices and more control to the player without breaking anything.

[Zyrinx]

tbh , only the hardcore gamers qq about all of this.. they are like aroudn 10% of the player base, the casuals never talk, so you just heard the hardcore version of forum, im sure you ask any casual if he loved the valor point for gear or titan forged, they will tell you it was awesome

They will and it was

[Razion]

When currencies were being used people complained that they were the main way to get loot and they'd rather pick it up from bosses.

There's also a downside with Valor. People complained in Mists that people couldn't use drops until they were able to upgrade pieces to full. There was a large problem in Mists in general in not being able to use gear immediately when it dropped due to other things like reforging (sockets, enchants, etc. too).

It's arguably a worse experience to receive a piece of loot, and it not being good or useful when by comparison you could go to town and get the loot which by comparison is a lot closer to being useful. It creates a negative experience when looting, and by comparison when you buy the loot from a vendor and it's useful it's a better experience. Sure, loot that drops from bosses back then wasn't always upgrades over the bought gear as well, but it's not like that isn't something they could change. It's also true that we don't have to worry about valor or gems and enchants as much as in Mists so there are pros and cons to both. But I think the casual perspective (and the more sizable playerbase) will experience more significant upgrades from bosses even with currency to buy gear and by comparison having to go back to town to upgrade loot is a lot more of a relevant problem - especially in the M+ scene, where the valor will be introduced to (as gear is more frequent, so valor will be consumed on items to upgrade more regularly rather than waiting in a raid perhaps for that perfect weapon to upgrade -- though by comparison the gear still had to be upgraded to be considered useful by and large).

[Unlimited Power]

The intent of the valor points, as stated in the post by Blizzard, is to allow players who primarily play m+ to get upgrades beyond 210 without waiting for the weekly vault as their only source of upgrades. It's not supposed to fix any problems with raid loot feeling inadequate as that fix will come at a later time.

You can get 207 gear from world bosses, 203 gear from callings, 197 from the covenant set and 194 from world quests. If you're not raiding, doing m+ or doing rated or unrated pvp, you really don't need a badge vendor. Even if you did have one, it would sell gear equivalent to normal raiding anyway, ie only 200 ilvl, so really not that different from what is already available to you.

[Fkiolaris]

Yes it would be great for casuals and alts to run a few daily heroics and LFR, cap your points and slowly buy your way to a set of great gear. Like you said it works wonderfully in FFXIV and it used to work wonderfully in WoW.

Back in WotLK for example. You got the second best quality gear slowly but surely. Now we have the covenant campaign and that just ends. Casuals are left without a satisfying long term gameplay loop with something to work towards.

But no if casuals can get good gear too the key pushers, raiders and rankers lose their special snowflake feeling, Blizzard losing subs to FFXIV be damned.

Not only that, but WotLK and Cata gave new heroic dungeons per tier with higher level gear that you could form a group with friends and farm if liked.

As already said by others, for the casual playerbase there is no downside to having gear bought by valour in the way it has been in this exact game in the past (ie weekly cap on VPs, VPs from all sorts of activities, availability of 2-piece tier only, can also be used for upgrades)..

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

No point to introduce badge gear. It would just be more bad gear that no one would need after a while.
The problem is that currently the gear from M+ can never be good, and that is not okay.
They are fixing that.

[aceperson]

Read they were reintroducing valor points and got excited, thought I might resub. Then I read what these “Valor” points actually are and....

Is it so hard for them to bring back badge gear? Something to work towards weekly like back in BC or Wrath? I understand “this game is not that game” but it works wonderfully in Final Fantasy. I unsubbed because I couldn’t deal with the toxicity of random M+ play this expac, too much going on lately but without that and with just Raid Finder there’s not much else to feel like you’re actually progressing your gear. A weekly capped badge system with a vendor would be a HUGE carrot on a stick. Doesn’t need to be the best gear, maybe normal Raid level as it was historically.

Seriously, have they ever mentioned why they completely ignore this concept that they themselves initially used?

*Unable to post on the official forums since I don’t have a sub

i actually think they are partly right with this idea. by having these badges added and using them to upgrade dungeon pieces, it will make any piece of loot feel more rewarding to get. that said, gear drops are still minimal and super rng based. there NEEDS to be a base version for available for purchase along with the upgrades as a bad luck protection mechanic. this ensures steady gearing.