You are the one who changed, WoW is still the same or better - argument

[Big Thanks]

Very old argument yet i never gave it a thought.
Does anyone agree this argument holds true for many, many cases of players who say:

"WoW is not as good as it used to be and back in my day...(etc)"

We all know the feeling.
We keep coming back to WoW from time to time yet we are never happy as we "used to be back in the day"
But who's fault is that? You think is the game? Or our fault? Or nobody is fault and "times change"

There is an argument that maybe the golden age of MMO's is right now and not in the past.
And im sure in this very moment there is people ingame living the same best moments we lived in the past...just today.

If you think a system or mechanic of the game was better in the past please feel free to point out WHAT was better and why.
And if you think if this old mechanic would bring the "good old times" back.

--------

Just wanted to share this video of a small unknown youtuber i never saw before (on the matter)
Just an opinion like any other.

[Kithelle]

Just look at Vanilla...it's obvious the players changed. They thought going back to Vanilla would be a utopia...free from all the player mindsets of Live. But instead it's just Live player mindsets in a Classic setting.

Why aren't MMOs fun anymore? They're all pretty much the same...there hasn't been really anything new added to MMOs that I can think of since action combat and that has been around for a long time

[arkanon]

SNIP.

Shadoowpunk, its great that you think wow is the best its ever been - absolutely fine. What is there to discuss here?

[Naiattavain]

Very old argument yet i never gave it a thought.
Does anyone agree this argument holds true for many, many cases of players who say:

"WoW is not as good as it used to be and back in my day...(etc)"

We all know the feeling.
We keep coming back to WoW from time to time yet we are never happy as we "used to be back in the day"
But who's fault is that? You think is the game? Or our fault? Or nobody is fault and "times change"

There is an argument that maybe the golden age of MMO's is right now and not in the past.
And im sure in this very moment there is people ingame living the same best moments we lived in the past...just today.

If you think a system or mechanic of the game was better in the past please feel free to point out WHAT was better and why.
And if you think if this old mechanic would bring the "good old times" back.

--------

Just wanted to share this video of a small unknown youtuber i never saw before (on the matter)
Just an opinion like any other.

why is it that when blizzard changed sub after wod that recketful decided to kill him self? coincidence?


i know times change but what has blizzard turned its self into today?

[Toybox]

People 100% change, but so does the landscape of gaming as a whole, & I think that's best reflected in PvP. Doing BGs & whatnot back in the day was the shit, & I absolutely loved it. I racked up 240k HKs in 3-4 years across my account & I had a hell of a lot of fun doing so Now? Why play BGs when I can go play Dota 2?

WoW PvE is the only thing where I feel there's no real replacement. You can't really have that satisfying experience of killing a boss with 19 of your mates in anything besides an MMO, & for me, that element of the game is as good as ever. I don't think Shadowlands has the best dungeons or raid by any means, but if you're playing with good people then a good dungeon becomes a great dungeon & a great dungeon becomes a brilliant one.

why is it that when blizzard changed sub after wod that recketful decided to kill him self? coincidence?


i know times change but what has blizzard turned its self into today?

What the hell is this post? Honestly.

[Relapses]

why is it that when blizzard changed sub after wod that recketful decided to kill him self? coincidence?


i know times change but what has blizzard turned its self into today?

Are you actually implying that a man committed suicide because Blizzard stopped releasing subscriber numbers? Not only is this probably the most offensively thoughtless thing I've ever seen posted on this forum, it's... actually depressing that there's a non-zero number of people who'd agree with you.

[Spicymemer]

I havent changed.

WoW has become a game designed for the unemployed or those without a social life.

[schwarzkopf]

Well - people change dramatically between 20 and 35 , they grow up.

WoW has changed as well - there is far more to do in it now, and it is far better.

Mix the two changes together and you get the truth - both have changed, but only the former has desires and wishes.

- - - Updated - - -

I havent changed.

That of course is objectively incorrect.

WoW has become a game designed for the unemployed or those without a social life.

Well it is less that now than it was at the start - at the start, you literally had to be unemployed to even get into an AV run. The queues were 12+ hours.

[Toybox]

I havent changed.

WoW has become a game designed for the unemployed or those without a social life.

This is such nonsense. Everything related to player power can be achieved in just an hour or so each week so long as you've kept your character up to date, & other than that all you have to do is the content of your choice.

[Ryzeth]

why is it that when blizzard changed sub after wod that recketful decided to kill him self? coincidence?

What the actual fuck possessed you to think this was an okay thing to post? Are you trying to be funny?

[Naiattavain]

they threaten to kill chris metzen too if he didn't retire.

- - - Updated - - -

i think mmo have been more taxing on mental health than anything else. coincidence?

[hyphnos]

Very old argument yet i never gave it a thought.
Does anyone agree this argument holds true for many, many cases of players who say:

"WoW is not as good as it used to be and back in my day...(etc)"

We all know the feeling.
We keep coming back to WoW from time to time yet we are never happy as we "used to be back in the day"
But who's fault is that? You think is the game? Or our fault? Or nobody is fault and "times change"

There is an argument that maybe the golden age of MMO's is right now and not in the past.
And im sure in this very moment there is people ingame living the same best moments we lived in the past...just today.

If you think a system or mechanic of the game was better in the past please feel free to point out WHAT was better and why.
And if you think if this old mechanic would bring the "good old times" back.

--------

Just wanted to share this video of a small unknown youtuber i never saw before (on the matter)
Just an opinion like any other.

The entire premise of this "argument" is blown apart by the fact that the people who make the game, blow it up and redo everything every expansion.

The fact that other than thematically, it is NOT THE SAME GAME, from expac to expac and sometimes not even patch to patch, makes this line of thought pointless.

There are iterations of WoW that to any given player were for reasons of class design, rewards, time gate requirements and a lot of other things that were in fact better. So no, it is not the "players who have changed" it is the game that is changed - constantly and repeatedly even when the devs hit upon something that a decent majority actually like.

[Dellis0991]

The players and the game changed.....

[Sensa1]

It's a combo of things happening. Players change and the game changes.

While I have thoroughly enjoyed Classic I never approached it from a rose coloured glasses perspective. It simply could never match the experience that Vanilla was for me...my first MMO experience, first online Guild experience, first take down of Raid bosses with my Guild, exploring the game and mastering my character(s). Everything that has come after, in WoW, could never truly hold a candle to that original experience and that's not Blizzard's fault.

That being said, the reward mechanisms in the game have changed dramatically over time. I prefer the Vanilla / Classic model, where the journey was a significant factor in the experience and progression felt meaningful, over Retail to the point I can't bring myself to play Retail anymore. And that's coming from a player that's basically gone as far as they can, without being in Guild in Classic, and has hit the hard wall that a solo player can't progress past (gearing, professions etc).

WoW is not the game it once was and I'm not the person I once was. End of story.

[Wheeler]

Stopped watching the video as soon as he said people claimed MMO's "Weren't good" anymore because they were "easier".

The reason they're not as good is because the space they inhabit has changed (online gaming), and the people playing them have changed too (with some wanting a more difficult experience - and older people being unable to keep up due to RL obligations).

Imagine playing with 40+ people at the same time when couch co-op was still one of the only ways most of your friend group could play videogames together. It was insane. Talking in chat with thousands of people because Discord wasn't a thing. Having guild forums because once again - Discord wasn't a thing. There was nothing on the planet like it.

The golden age of the was definitely a decade or two ago. 1999-2010 or so. Now there's nothing special about large-scale multiplayer games. It's just a grind.

[Spicymemer]

Well it is less that now than it was at the start - at the start, you literally had to be unemployed to even get into an AV run. The queues were 12+ hours.

Not only is AV not endgame, but this is absolutely untrue.

- - - Updated - - -

This is such nonsense. Everything related to player power can be achieved in just an hour or so each week so long as you've kept your character up to date, & other than that all you have to do is the content of your choice.

Last i checked torghast takes an hour atleast.

What about all the other systems?

M+

Stop lying.

[Freedom]

Even if modern WoW was like it was in MOP or WOTLK, I still wouldn't play it. I've changed too much.

But I certainly would not play Legion or BFA, or even Shadowlands from what I know of it.

So it's both because I have changed and because the game has changed.

[WowIsDead64]

...

Both players and MMOs have changed. Players changed, because back in old days, when Wow was released, HL1 graphics was considered great, so Wow looked really good and immersive. And now even with all updates, it just looks ugly in comparison with current games. That feeling of something new is also gone. Players no longer experiment with things. But MMOs are changed too. Back in old days they were more sandbox, than theme park. I mean, they provided content and it was up to players to choose, what to do and how to approach this content. Current MMOs are about spoonfeeding and threadmilling. Because devs think too much about constantly keeping players busy, while providing minimal amount of content. Dunno about you, but I just can't bear it. I just can't bear this hidden time-gating mechanics. They're unfair. It's like playing in casino, while not knowing all rules. There is risk of losing everything, because you didn't know, that only one player a day could win or something like that.

[schwarzkopf]

Not only is AV not endgame, but this is absolutely untrue.

It is now in classic - but back in the day AV players used to time share the account to get in at all, and AV was end game back when all end game had was BGs and Raids.

Yes - the queues were 12+ hours, the games sometimes 2 days or more long.

[Uoyredrum]

Both the players and the game have changed. It's not one or the other. And the game isn't better than it used to be, it's just different. Personally I prefer the old design of the game. I preferred the old animations, sounds, abilities, and general flow of the game. I still play both classic and retail, and I can appreciate them both for what they are, but when TBC classic is released I probably won't touch retail anymore. But I can understand why some people would still play retail for sure.