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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because Badge gear is not a solution to the issue they're trying to fix here. They don't want to give you another source for gear, they want to give you some consolation reward when you don't get any.
    Badge gear is the consolation reward when you don't get any.

  2. #82
    Legendary! TirielWoW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    How does it work better in FF? Outside of running them for a capped currency, they're irrelevant.
    They typically pair them with story elements, and it provides something new to run every few months.
    Tiriél US-Stormrage

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  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    They typically pair them with story elements, and it provides something new to run every few months.
    I wouldn't really call that working well though. At max dungeons are mostly useless. Hell, half the time they're not even the best source of capped currency (unsure if the front gives it this expansion, but in Stormblood, you were better off getting your tomestones in Eureka.)

    And even then if you're doing dungeons for tomestones you're basically spamming expert roulette, which is the same 2 dungeons over and over, FFXIV could use a revamp on the way they hand dungeons at max level, I'm not saying M+, but something.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    When currencies were being used people complained that they were the main way to get loot and they'd rather pick it up from bosses.
    ....and then all flooded to PVP for targeted upgrades
    Almost like the community will never be happy.

    Anyway, I’m in the fence with Valour upgrades. As it stands, can’t upgrade Raid Drops so that loot (Heroic) quickly becomes useless (again) and will need to re-farm M+ items to upgrade... some of which took a lot of farming to drop.
    Also I think the unlock thresholds Vs item levels are off.

    Personally, I would of preferred Badge gear and and an upgrade system to align with PVP. Raid bosses should drop Valour (like they used too) and Raid gear should be upgradeable.
    e.g. Clearing Heroic CN unlocks Raid upgrades to 220 ilvl (inline with last 2 bosses)... clearing Mythic upgrade to 233 etc... even let LFR players upgrade to 194. It’s got a weekly cap so by the time an LFR raider has upgraded to 194, the normal raider is in 207, Heroic 220 etc etc

    Many players (myself being one of them) have hit a wall in PVE. We will never clear Mythic CN for various reasons and have hit a gearing wall relying solely on the weekly vault as even the Heroic Raid has barely anything to offer.
    Given I(we) dislike M+ at the best of times, we just do a weekly 14 because the thought of doing 10 of them gives cause to walk away an unsub till next season.... something Blizzard don’t want us to do.

    Running a single +14 per week for a chance at an upgrade is not a reason to stay subbed. Running 10 M+ as a chore to triple that chance is even worse.
    Just give all players a trickle progression path after the main gearing is over to give us something to work towards for the remainder of season that’s no tied exclusively to M+

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Mlangs View Post
    Read they were reintroducing valor points and got excited, thought I might resub. Then I read what these “Valor” points actually are and....

    Is it so hard for them to bring back badge gear? Something to work towards weekly like back in BC or Wrath? I understand “this game is not that game” but it works wonderfully in Final Fantasy. I unsubbed because I couldn’t deal with the toxicity of random M+ play this expac, too much going on lately but without that and with just Raid Finder there’s not much else to feel like you’re actually progressing your gear. A weekly capped badge system with a vendor would be a HUGE carrot on a stick. Doesn’t need to be the best gear, maybe normal Raid level as it was historically.

    Seriously, have they ever mentioned why they completely ignore this concept that they themselves initially used?

    *Unable to post on the official forums since I don’t have a sub
    they are not making this to give something to players

    they are doing this to make boosting more prominent and main source of getting gear

    they are basicly turning wow into full p2w game

    buy your tokens (gold) and then get +15 boosted - then you can get mythic gear via doing WQs

    thats the new gearing meta.



    they are not even subtle about this.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    they are not making this to give something to players

    they are doing this to make boosting more prominent and main source of getting gear

    they are basicly turning wow into full p2w game

    buy your tokens (gold) and then get +15 boosted - then you can get mythic gear via doing WQs

    thats the new gearing meta.



    they are not even subtle about this.
    Yes, Blizzard does everything for the most cynical reasons possible because they hate their players. How'd you figure this out?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    We have Covenant gear vendor and the Great Vault where you can pick loot. If they added a vendor it wouldnt automatically be gear you wanted either. What then? People would complain that the badge gear sucks! Just as they say the GV sucks now when they get items they dont want and need.

    The GV is an ever changing "badge vendor" where you do content and get to pick an item depending on your efforts. In reality it works exactly like a badge vendor.

    And the badge vendor in TBC was all catch up. It was always a raid item level below current progress. If you compare it to now, Covenant gear is exactly that. In current game design a badge vendor would not fit in since seasons comes and goes. Remember Azerite vendor? If you wanted to pick your bis from that it took you 24-26 weeks to get all 3 if you did a 15 each week. Bar 8.3 it would mean you got to use it for a month before next season came and you started your regrind. I remenber all the QQ of regrinding the currency, I bet Blizzard do as well.

    Why no badge gear? Because we got it in The Great Vault.
    What?

    Badge gear = I can buy whatever piece I like.
    Vault = I get a random piece of gear.

    They are not the same thing in the slightest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Yes, Blizzard does everything for the most cynical reasons possible because they hate their players. How'd you figure this out?
    Because it’s ages that they are desperately trying to invent new weird methods to make ppl gear as slowly as possible while the solution would be the simple “you finish dungeon = you get the loot” like 99% of rpgs on the planet. I would rather have a lockout in M+ BUT get a fokkin piece of gear every time I finish a dungeon instead of this spammable madness with no rewards.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by kaintk View Post
    well its stupid, because valoring the gear is an optional solution to make the rng less rng

    yeah you can loot from boss, but if your bis dont drop, you can buy it with valor point

    its why blizzard just making the valor point only available for mm+ and only for upgrade is not the right way to do it..

    just make a valor seller for each dungeon, you try to loot stuff on boss and at the same time, doing valor point , so if your loot dont drop, you buy it

    the should also make it that valor point can drop on hm too but really slowly if you want to buy mythic stuff, so you will make happy the mm+ players who will drop a lot of valor on mm+ dungeons and make happy the casual players who will upgrade their stuff too on their hm dungeons but very more slowly, so i think everyone would be happy..
    That wasnt how badge gear worked. The stuff you bought with it was it's own gear it didnt drop anywhere else. And it was filler pieces like shields and trinkets and rings not main armor or weapons. Gear from bosses has never been purchasable.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    What?

    Badge gear = I can buy whatever piece I like.
    Vault = I get a random piece of gear.

    They are not the same thing in the slightest.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Because it’s ages that they are desperately trying to invent new weird methods to make ppl gear as slowly as possible while the solution would be the simple “you finish dungeon = you get the loot” like 99% of rpgs on the planet. I would rather have a lockout in M+ BUT get a fokkin piece of gear every time I finish a dungeon instead of this spammable madness with no rewards.
    What?

    GV: You get to pick an item depending on the amount of content you do. Weekly.
    Badge: You get to pick an item depending on the amount of content you do.

    Difference is, the GV actually reward you for what content you do. Badge gear was mindless farm on easiest content there was.

    You act like badge gear would guarantee you loot with the stats you want. That was never the case. What then? Yes. You would go to forums, complaining that the badge gear is crap.

    They work exactly the same on a fundamental level. Dont pretend other wise.

  10. #90
    Why no badge gear? It's simple. If casuals could get heroic quality gear from doing dailies, LFR and daily heroics and capping VP each week the elitist raiders would have a meltdown.
    It doesn't matter if it takes them 1 month to get there and 6 months for a casual. Casuals don't deserve gear progression to work towards.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Because it’s ages that they are desperately trying to invent new weird methods to make ppl gear as slowly as possible while the solution would be the simple “you finish dungeon = you get the loot” like 99% of rpgs on the planet. I would rather have a lockout in M+ BUT get a fokkin piece of gear every time I finish a dungeon instead of this spammable madness with no rewards.
    You do realize that you get at least 2 pieces of gear from every end-of-dungeon chest in M+, right? And that if you go above +15, you can get even more loot. You can dislike the current system because you feel like it's not deterministic enough but the GV does fill in some of the gaps where the prior two expansions relied almost exclusively on things like TFing to keep people engaged.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2021-02-16 at 07:31 AM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Casuals don't deserve gear progression to work towards.
    RPG players deserve slow power increments as they grind in order to comeback to tackle same content that wiped them before.
    That's what RPG games are about, getting slowly more and more powerful.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    It doesn't matter if it takes them 1 month to get there and 6 months for a casual. Casuals don't deserve gear progression to work towards.
    The existence of Covenant campaign gear which is the same item level as normal mode Castle Nathria kind of disproves this very shitty, very cynical argument.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    What?

    GV: You get to pick an item depending on the amount of content you do. Weekly.
    Badge: You get to pick an item depending on the amount of content you do.

    Difference is, the GV actually reward you for what content you do. Badge gear was mindless farm on easiest content there was.

    You act like badge gear would guarantee you loot with the stats you want. That was never the case. What then? Yes. You would go to forums, complaining that the badge gear is crap.

    They work exactly the same on a fundamental level. Dont pretend other wise.
    The op talked about badge gear aka you stockpile currency to buy the items you want from a vendor.

    I know how valor points will work.

    Also, I don’t like the vault mechanism at all but this is another story.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Why no badge gear? It's simple. If casuals could get heroic quality gear from doing dailies, LFR and daily heroics and capping VP each week the elitist raiders would have a meltdown.
    It doesn't matter if it takes them 1 month to get there and 6 months for a casual. Casuals don't deserve gear progression to work towards.
    Casuals pay the same monthly fee you nolifers pay and are the ones that are keeping the game alive in the last 10 years.

    They deserve all the loot in the world.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    What?

    GV: You get to pick an item depending on the amount of content you do. Weekly.
    Badge: You get to pick an item depending on the amount of content you do.

    Difference is, the GV actually reward you for what content you do.

    You act like badge gear would guarantee you loot with the stats you want. That was never the case. What then? Yes. You would go to forums, complaining that the badge gear is crap.

    They work exactly the same on a fundamental level. Dont pretend other wise.
    a lot of people find immense pleasure in farming easy content

    thats called grinding.

    thats the core element of any good mmorpg.

    you kill easy stuff to get gear to kill a bit harder stuff

    thats why retail is abomination instanced child of frogger and bullet-hell atm . and thats why its failing .

    comes TBC and decline will be even steeper.

    once WoLK comes a lot of people (most likely me included) will never play retail ever again .

    because retail is not mmorpg anymore.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    You do realize that you get at least 2 pieces of gear from every end-of-dungeon chest in M+, right? And that if you go above +15, you can get even more loot. You can dislike the current system because you feel like it's not deterministic enough but the GV does fill in some of the gaps where the prior two expansions relied almost exclusively on things like TFing to keep people engaged.
    I only realize that in BfA I got at least 2 pieces a week from M+ plus maybe a third from the weekly chest, now I get nothing apart maybe 1 piece from the vault and I do many more M+ I did in BfA.

    I’m engaged enough but I get less loot than before. Maybe Blizzard should start adjusting loot chances based on /played besides on what you do during your /played.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Hmm....I know people like to stick to the idea of "Blizzard never listens" - However in cases like this..well..either they did listen or they came up with the same idea of the ppl who posted in TBC for example: "Why do you need raid gear if you don't raid?" or "Why should people be able to get raid gear by doing activities like dailies and heroic 5 mans"

    Obviously it is easy to re-introduce the concept of badges...it is just: We have been there and either Blizzard or the players didn't like it.

    Just wait until we get "Why don't they use TF / WF, it was so great" - after all...people posted against re-forging, it is removed, now people who actually liked it post for it to come back.

    I was okay with badges, but I understand that indeed: !If you don't raid, why do you need raid gear and raid gear should come from raids". I also understand that raiders want a bad luck protection and buy missing items...in which case..yeah...the currency for that should maybe come from rais?

    As it stands.....if you don't raid or only do low mythics...what is wrong with what we have? Gear that can be upgraded to ilv 197 through anima and questing and several ilv 207 pieces from world bosses?
    the players didnt like badges/vp ?

    i mean literaly wtf.

    there wasnt a single forum thread in wolk-mop era whining about badge/VP gear.

    this was never convern raised by playerbase.

    this kind of gear was never a problem .

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    a lot of people find immense pleasure in farming easy content

    thats called grinding.

    thats the core element of any good mmorpg.

    you kill easy stuff to get gear to kill a bit harder stuff

    thats why retail is abomination instanced child of frogger and bullet-hell atm . and thats why its failing .

    comes TBC and decline will be even steeper.

    once WoLK comes a lot of people (most likely me included) will never play retail ever again .

    because retail is not mmorpg anymore.
    A lot of people has a life outside Azeroth, that’s why retail is what it is.

    If you love spend your life playing games, stick with classic and leave us alone, thanks.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    I only realize that in BfA I got at least 2 pieces a week from M+ plus maybe a third from the weekly chest, now I get nothing apart maybe 1 piece from the vault and I do many more M+ I did in BfA.

    I’m engaged enough but I get less loot than before. Maybe Blizzard should start adjusting loot chances based on /played besides on what you do during your /played.
    They only took away a single piece of gear from M+ compared to BfA. I was skeptical this would work and I even made a thread critical of the change before the expansion was released. But now after having geared out 3 separate toons with relative ease (even compared to BfA where I had 6 geared toons), I really haven't noticed a whole lot of difference. And the GV is a vast improvement over the prior box.

  20. #100
    The Unstoppable Force Chickat's Avatar
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    I still think resilience should come back. It doesn't need to replace a stat. It's a third stat.

    Pvp gear capped at heroic raid item level. The resilience would make it much better than pve gear in pvp, and the pve gear would be better in pve. If the cap was lower, PvE players wouldn't feel the need to grind pvp gear.

    Honor gear set to heroic dungeon item level. Upgradeable with lots of honor to lfr item level.
    Conquest gear capped at heroic item level from final boss, and requiring high rating.

    Conquest gear starts at inbetween lfr and normal mode ilev and is upgradeable all the way to heroic raid ilev if you are above say 2400?

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