LFR is a superfluous, meaningless difficulty

[Drusin]

This is quite confusing to me

assuming thats the case for everyone.

and apply that to what I said as well. If it's relevant and shitty for everyone then remove it, since everyone thinks it is shitty.

you can't know everyone thinks it is shitty Drusin

Of course not, just as no one can know everyone thinks something is irrelevant.

[ClassicPeon]

It doesn't equate to noone - not sure why you would think it does.

Just leave us with Normal and Heroic - that's where everyone raids.

I dunno man. Where could i have gotten that from. Hmm... yeah.. I dno.

[czarek]

LFR is more or less safari trip. You are here to see the content. One meaningless thing is ilvl loot. Its a bit higher than m0 and much less than convenant set. Its ok if u just lvled up but not worth later.

[Seranthor]

Did you read my last paragraph? It affects me negatively because it turns the game into a singleplayer game. The "drone mentality" I speak of is real. Blizzard is affected by how many people like that playstyle, and change the game, and focus their resources accordingly. Compare to earlier WoW iterations when the game was actually an MMO that forced people to play together properly. I prefer Blizzard spending their time effectively, working on the game that I want to play instead of catering to the "droners" I refer to.

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That's why it should be a faceroll "story mode", where people can do it alone, with 4 people or 8, or as many people that queued for it.

Blizzard has explained that LFR exists to justify the amount of resources they invest in raid development. How much raid content are you willing to give up to get rid of LFR? 20%, 30%, 50%?

[The One Percent]

LFR is perfectly fine now that they got rid of shitterforging. Only thing I would like is if they made lfr gear look like dungeon gear instead of sharing the same skins as the normal and heroic with a palette swap, but it's honestly not a hill I find worth dying over.

[Seranthor]

More people would subscribe and play than people would quit if the game actually became an MMO again, imo.

Why should Blizzard listen to you?

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There is a BLIND mythic raider? I would love to know more about this - can you link to anything about this?

Count me in, I wanna know more about this person(s) as well.

[Okacz]

LFR is perfectly fine now that they got rid of shitterforging. Only thing I would like is if they made lfr gear look like dungeon gear instead of sharing the same skins as the normal and heroic with a palette swap, but it's honestly not a hill I find worth dying over.

They tried that in WoD I believe, didn't stick around, community uproar was too high.

Tho I kind of agree, it's only natural that gear from higher difficulties should look better, motivating factors and such. Tho it does hold little value when you think that all the M+ gear shares the same derpy-ass look no matter what level you do it for.

[TheRevenantHero]

Lfr is and basically always has been a queable, playable, cinematic. The only reason they have it in the game in the first place is for people who don’t want to put time into an mmo enough to raid and see the whole story, but get the whole benefits of doing so. It’s the equivalent of watching a walkthrough of the last of us because you can’t seem to figure out how to use your thumbs but you want to see the story.

Tbh I truly do think it is bad for the game overall, but I understand why a lot of people will defend it, because they get to feel like they accomplished something without actually doing anything.

And you would be wrong. LFR is good for the game because it justifies putting as much time into raid design as Blizzard does. The devs have actively said if LFR wasn't so popular, raid quality would have dipped a while ago.

[Flarelaine]

At the moment, you can get better gear than what LFR offers by doing world quests and gear that's miles better by doing covenant stuff. If you're feeling risky, you might even play some random BGs for vastly superior gear.

Between LFR playing no part in casual gear progression while somehow managing to be easier than M0, it's pretty obvious that the mode is not working out as intended. It's time to trim some fat from this bloated behemoth of an endgame design paradigm and axe LFR. Instead, there should be an automated queue for normal with the option of running it as a flexible premade. Normal difficulty is about on par with what should be clearable by a disorganized but motivated pug.

There's absolutely zero reason to have two "easy" difficulties in the form of LFR and normal. They just bloat progression and make within- and between-tier ilevel jumps larger than they have to be.

You can improve it by making it a single boss queue with later bosses unlocked by defeating earlier bosses. M+ could likewise have an automated queue up to 10+ and PvP up to 1800 rating. There's more than enough casual content in this game to create a meaningful progression path outside of organized play. Problem is that Blizzard refuses to make it accessible.

I get it, you do not like LFR.

Feel free to not do LFR.

[Zuben]

Getting subpar gear from LFR started in Legion, which subsequently led me to pretty much drop out of the raiding scene. I might go through LFR once to see the stuff there is to see, but otherwise there no longer seems to be any point to LFR. I gave normal raiding a shot when the game introduced tools for it, but since people make the decisions there I often find my gear or rotation inadequate to their sensibilities, true or not. Regardless how you may feel about LFR I used to enjoy it. It was raiding. There were wipes. And there was a point to it. Where we are at now reminds me of the Vanilla-Cata era, when raiding was too cumbersome an order for me to bother with.

[TheRevenantHero]

Why would it? There's nothing stopping a player taking some initiative to learn and improve if they want to experience other parts of the game. There are so many resources out there now that simply didn't exist 'those days'.

It's more likely people will just quit the game if LFR was removed.

[MrLachyG]

Getting subpar gear from LFR started in Legion, which subsequently led me to pretty much drop out of the raiding scene. I might go through LFR once to see the stuff there is to see, but otherwise there no longer seems to be any point to LFR. I gave normal raiding a shot when the game introduced tools for it, but since people make the decisions there I often find my gear or rotation inadequate to their sensibilities, true or not. Regardless how you may feel about LFR I used to enjoy it. It was raiding. There were wipes. And there was a point to it. Where we are at now reminds me of the Vanilla-Cata era, when raiding was too cumbersome an order for me to bother with.

um... no? LFR gear has always been a lower item level than normal/heroic/mythic gear. WoD LFR gear really sucked ass; no tier sets (or a shitty tier set far inferior to the actual tier set), shitty trinkets etc. Legion restored the status quo giving tier sets and the same trinkets that you could get in the harder difficulties

[Devilyaki]

Trim the fat, time to stop wasting money on mythic

[Jazzhands]

Always funny when "hardcore" raiders and such complain about LFR. Remove LFR and you no longer have any raids as it won't be worth Blizzards time because we'd go back to having like less than 10% of the population participating. LFR literally saved raiding and y'all should be grateful you still get anything.

[Seranthor]

Always funny when "hardcore" raiders and such complain about LFR. Remove LFR and you no longer have any raids as it won't be worth Blizzards time because we'd go back to having like less than 10% of the population participating. LFR literally saved raiding and y'all should be grateful you still get anything.

The Corgi with a pipe gets it.

[Th3Scourge]

It's more likely people will just quit the game if LFR was removed.

I doubt it but we'll never know because they'll never remove it. It is what it is.

[Wilfire]

Trim the fat, time to stop wasting money on mythic

I've been saying this for years. This game has become an absolute cluster**** of systems and difficulties and scaling layered on top of other systems and difficulties and scaling. It needs to be simplified. Not to vanilla levels, perhaps, but WotLK had just enough different things to have something for everyone without things getting as cluster****ed as they currently are.

WotLK with a queueable normal mode would have been one of the most popular games of all time.

Also let's tl;dr this thread for people who read the title but nothing else.

Current LFR: tourist difficulty that gives next to no rewards.

My proposal of rebranded normal mode with LFR convenience features: a valid endgame progression path for casuals with solid rewards and a difficulty curve that's slightly harder than current LFR.

[Samuraijake]

LFR has Three bonus notable things:

Allows ppl to finish the final quests associated with the raids story (see the raid, turn in final quests, final cinamatics in game)
Gear catchup before normal mode
Raid training dummy

[Minikin]

Lfr is not for gear and its not for you. Its for people who wanna quickly sign up with the dungeon finder and see the raid that they can't otherwise see. There is no reason what so ever to complain about lfr as its something you can skip 100% and it won't affect you a single bit

This. Ever since I went casual I just use lfr to see the story. I'll queue while tabbed out or some dailies and it automatically pops.

[Jazzhands]

I've been saying this for years. This game has become an absolute cluster**** of systems and difficulties and scaling layered on top of other systems and difficulties and scaling. It needs to be simplified. Not to vanilla levels, perhaps, but WotLK had just enough different things to have something for everyone without things getting as cluster****ed as they currently are.

WotLK with a queueable normal mode would have been one of the most popular games of all time.

Also let's tl;dr this thread for people who read the title but nothing else.

Current LFR: tourist difficulty that gives next to no rewards.

My proposal of rebranded normal mode with LFR convenience features: a valid endgame progression path for casuals with solid rewards and a difficulty curve that's slightly harder than current LFR.

LFR raiders aren't looking for any form of challenge in raiding, that's why they raid LFR. They don't want a progression path, they just want to clear it and not give a shite, and Blizzard just wants as many people as possible to see at least some form of the content they work really hard to make. Your idea is counter-productive to the very reasons LFR exists.