You are the one who changed, WoW is still the same or better - argument

[Belloc]

OP: Here's what's changed: Pretty much everything. Classes changed from being very poorly designed in Vanilla, to better designed in TBC, to well-designed in WotLK and MoP, to... well, I can't speak for class design after that, other than for a couple patches in BFA, where I enjoyed my warlock and prot paladin designs.

Raids changed from Vanilla in that they went from 40 players to 25/10 players, to flexible sizes with 20-player Mythics.

Raid bosses changed from being basic-bitch bosses in Vanilla, to slightly less basic in TBC, to relatively complex in WotLK and onward.

Raid loot changed from being very sparse in Vanilla, less sparse in TBC (and abundant when you consider badge gear), common in WotLK (especially considering badge gear), common and fun in MoP (I rather enjoyed thunderforging as a concept), to, once again, sparse/tedious in SL.

Addons changed from being basic in Vanilla, less basic in TBC, overpowered (and then subsequently nerfed) in WotLK, and better designed and featured as the game has gone on.

Content has changed from being quests, world-PVP and battlegrounds, basic dungeons and raids in Vanilla, to all the same plus arenas and heroic dungeons in TBC, to all the same plus daily quests and hardmodes/heroic raiding in WotLK, to more daily quests and LFR raid mode and rated-BGs in Cata, to all the same plus large amounts of daily quests, scenarios, flexible raid mode, pet battles, challenge modes, brawler's guild, proving grounds, and probably more... and subsequent expansions had mage towers, or expeditions, mythic +, etc. Content has changed/increased dramatically over the years.

And that's just the things that were obvious to me. The game has changed immensely over the years.

[Xath]

Very old argument yet i never gave it a thought.
Does anyone agree this argument holds true for many, many cases of players who say:

"WoW is not as good as it used to be and back in my day...(etc)"

We all know the feeling.
We keep coming back to WoW from time to time yet we are never happy as we "used to be back in the day"
But who's fault is that? You think is the game? Or our fault? Or nobody is fault and "times change"

There is an argument that maybe the golden age of MMO's is right now and not in the past.
And im sure in this very moment there is people ingame living the same best moments we lived in the past...just today.

If you think a system or mechanic of the game was better in the past please feel free to point out WHAT was better and why.
And if you think if this old mechanic would bring the "good old times" back.

--------

Just wanted to share this video of a small unknown youtuber i never saw before (on the matter)
Just an opinion like any other.

Sorry but no the lack of ability to raid log is something that's new and wasn't in the game for the first decade of it's life cycle.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

You can't have this argument.


People interpret things differently. There is not a universal held belief for what is considered fun, boring, good, bad, better, or worse when it comes to the game changing/evolving with the times. Old players and new players will have vastly different opinions about the state of the game, and maybe even share the same opinion on some aspects.


I get what the title of the thread is supposed to imply, but once again, your threads really don't have a point to discuss other than your opinion on something. You didn't even answer your OWN question posed in the thread.


But let's not pretend we don't know where you stand. We've all read your hypocritical threads/posts. The amount of times you've wanted WoW to give players "journeys" and "lasting experiences" to WoW not having "evergreen content" and now you're on this kick about having "lasting memories" and "best moments" and whatnot. Changing your username isn't enough to mask your ill-intended threads. This one is no different.

[Dellis0991]

No everything is exactly the same as 2004. I don't have any gray hair either.

You are not the same person you were in 2004 and the game has changed in leaps and bounds.

[Draenox]

I absolutely agree with that sentiment, I just think a lot of players are unwilling to accept that they aren't the same as they were 17 years ago. I used to live and breathe for progression raiding and now I would never consider going near it. That is not the games' raids being worse now, it's because I have different priorities with what I want to spend my time on.

It's like that with quite a few aspects in the game, but many others I enjoy just as much today as I did 12 years ago

[Big Thanks]

OP: Here's what's changed: Pretty much everything. Classes changed from being very poorly designed in Vanilla, to better designed in TBC, to well-designed in WotLK and MoP, to... well, I can't speak for class design after that, other than for a couple patches in BFA, where I enjoyed my warlock and prot paladin designs.

Raids changed from Vanilla in that they went from 40 players to 25/10 players, to flexible sizes with 20-player Mythics.

Raid bosses changed from being basic-bitch bosses in Vanilla, to slightly less basic in TBC, to relatively complex in WotLK and onward.

Raid loot changed from being very sparse in Vanilla, less sparse in TBC (and abundant when you consider badge gear), common in WotLK (especially considering badge gear), common and fun in MoP (I rather enjoyed thunderforging as a concept), to, once again, sparse/tedious in SL.

Addons changed from being basic in Vanilla, less basic in TBC, overpowered (and then subsequently nerfed) in WotLK, and better designed and featured as the game has gone on.

Content has changed from being quests, world-PVP and battlegrounds, basic dungeons and raids in Vanilla, to all the same plus arenas and heroic dungeons in TBC, to all the same plus daily quests and hardmodes/heroic raiding in WotLK, to more daily quests and LFR raid mode and rated-BGs in Cata, to all the same plus large amounts of daily quests, scenarios, flexible raid mode, pet battles, challenge modes, brawler's guild, proving grounds, and probably more... and subsequent expansions had mage towers, or expeditions, mythic +, etc. Content has changed/increased dramatically over the years.

And that's just the things that were obvious to me. The game has changed immensely over the years.

Me and the video guy thinks the gameplay differences even though they have changed and may result in a little bit different experience...they are not the reason why "you" cant enjoy the game "as you used to".

We know the game is different, He even says so on the video.

But I THINK if shadowlands released 10 years ago...i would still have the SAME best moments i had back then.
Dont know if u can understand my point of view :S

[shise]

No.

All the new systems were never a part of WoW. It was never needed either. Back in BC we had 90% less content and yet we were 24/7 busy with QUALITY content instead. For example. Same even with WotLK.

[Kalivox]

I'm 99% sure if you were to remove all the readily available information from classic (it's impossible I know, but just think theoretically) and denied access to private servers since TBC launch, the relaunch of the game would have been COMPLETELY different. Mass information, theory crafting, minmaxing etc killed the old aspect of the game. So in that sense, did the people changing kill the game? I guess you could technically say yes, but not in the way alot of people believe IMO

[[KJ]]

Shadowlands is nowhere near as rewarding as BFA with which I had more fun yet Shadowlands has better zones/pvp/dungeons. So I disagree with the statement I changed as wow is starting to feel like a job.

[Argorwal]

No.

All the new systems were never a part of WoW. It was never needed either. Back in BC we had 90% less content and yet we were 24/7 busy with QUALITY content instead. For example. Same even with WotLK.

Busy with playing other games when not in a raid? Because that’s more or less how I remember TBC.

And maybe that isn’t a bad thing.

[jsrfuture]

It's both, not one or the other. The game and mentality changed a lot and player changed too.

The best for me is not one but multiple xpac. For class my favorite was MoP. Pretty much every class was versatile and great in a lot of situation, yet they were different enough. But m+ didnt exist so maybe thing would've been different. The skill threshold of different class/spec was something I liked. We still had mechanic like snapshotting which is something I miss.

I miss the game being more alt friendly, now it's just an eternal grind. Sure you can play alt but that mean your main will get behind, that what happen when there is no cap or the cap is too high. Sure some people are lucky and get all their bis in m+ quickly, but that an extreme minority. I get that some people like that, I don't.

The game have a lot of p2w tendency now with token and everyone selling run, that's a huge negative for me. It's harder to find great pug that just want to play.

Banning multi-box software is something nice and unexpected. Not enough but still.

I do enjoy the layering, it's much more enjoyable . I mostly like the emissary quest. I hate that some bis trinket for pve are behind pvp.

[arkanon]

Me and the video guy thinks the gameplay differences even though they have changed and may result in a little bit different experience...

You think there is only a "little bit" of difference between classic and shadowlands?

[Wilfire]

Every expansion follows the same basic loop. Only so many times you can repeat the soul-crushing grind until you just decide that it's not worth it.

[unlockedz]

why is it that when blizzard changed sub after wod that recketful decided to kill him self? coincidence?


i know times change but what has blizzard turned its self into today?

are you actually bringing someone's mental issues into what blizzard did?
what kind of backward shitstain walmart inbred type of a human are you?
grow up you skidmark.

[Relapses]

my point is here .< where you're looking >.

i'll make my point abundantly clear since you missed by a country mile previously: there is no data to suggest the poster you quoted is wrong, by the same token there is no data to suggest that they are correct either, and as i stated it's not considered a nice thing to insinuate, it's sadly a fact that the vast majority of suicides don't get reported, and even when they do, there's usually never a note left behind to explain the reasons behind it, so nobody knows, that's my point.

I got your point. It's just very, very offensive to imply that suicidal ideation is able to be brought about by something as silly as whether or not you think a video game is "good" any more. We may never know, you're right -- but it greatly diminishes Reckful's legacy to say that maybe he was just depressed he couldn't pwn n0obs like he could in WotLK anymore. I'm not going to entertain this discussion any further because it's clear you and I do not see this in the same light. You may not have meant to be insulting by asking "what if...?" but it just is. So please, just drop it.

[Coffeh]

The fact I find Classic 1000x more enjoyable than the steaming pile of trash that is Retail tends to disagree with the premise of this thread.

[probert]

The fact I find Classic 1000x more enjoyable than the steaming pile of trash that is Retail tends to disagree with the premise of this thread.

exactly. its not us that changed, its activision and their desire for more microtransactions, more stickiness, and lower development/support budgets. oh and an obsession with trying to cultivate an e-sport out of it. there was like 15,000 people watching the arena finals this past weekend... halo scrims get more than that.

[Belloc]

Me and the video guy thinks the gameplay differences even though they have changed and may result in a little bit different experience...they are not the reason why "you" cant enjoy the game "as you used to".

We know the game is different, He even says so on the video.

But I THINK if shadowlands released 10 years ago...i would still have the SAME best moments i had back then.
Dont know if u can understand my point of view :S

Honestly, the only thing I ever really cared about in this game is competitive PvE content and, as far as I can tell, it's never been better. When I quit, the peak was Heroic raiding (which became mythic a few months later) and challenge modes. Now, it's Mythic raiding and Mythic+ (which has actual real-power rewards!). Additionally, we have more PvP content than ever before.

Honestly, the only gameplay-related complaints worth having, at this point, are quests, raids, and mythic+ in the form of loot drops. Raids and Mythic+ are having some very clear loot issues (Mythic+ isn't high enough ilvl and raids don't drop enough loot, both of which are soon to be solved). Quests were, as far as I can tell, much more rewarding in BFA. I wouldn't personally complain about the quantity/quality of quest loot because it has never really affected me, but I will admit that I see absolutely no problem with giving casual players a little bit more/better loot (I don't buy in to the whole "min-maxers will feel forced to do world quests if they can give good loot" bullshit, nor do I care about that demographic in the first place).

I suppose class playstyle complaints are also valid. If someone doesn't the way their class plays in this expansion, then complaints about those particular changes are valid.

So, I guess I should've really framed my reply as saying that the game has changed for the better.

[Hellobolis]

the game has changed.
we have changed.
the internet has changed.
gaming culture has changed.

back in the day it was amazing if you could play the beta for 30 minutes at your friends house. nowadays if there aren't thousands of hours of live gameplay and entire wikis before release you think somethings wrong.

[Demithio]

WoW, like many games, has lost (or lets say, developed out) the "what if" imagination factor that had as much to do with player mindset as actual content. Back in the 'day, we had to use our imaginations more as there was, I suppose, less 'content', or at least spoon fed content.

However, this is what kept people sticking, and this applies to many genres of games, not just MMOs. Sure, the 'golden era' of WOW - Vanilla, TBC, Wotlk - got boring sometimes, but there was something far more mentally stimulating about that time frame and development than now. WoW has radically changed since then, and with it killed the "what if" factor that had a (positive) psychological affect on the player base -in terms of getting them to stick and psychologically engrossed in the game. I'm sure much of the 'new WoW' crowd would argue otherwise.

Spoon feeding, and too much gimmick I'm afraid, in place of talented developers that had a rather keen knowledge of the abstract formula for making the game addicting. The players didn't change, they simply left because they no longer liked what they saw, or for the lack of a better term, felt.