LFR is a superfluous, meaningless difficulty

[Kallor]

Why should Blizzard listen to you?

I've never said they should listen to me, I'm stating what I think the game should be like. It's a discussion forum. The "quality first" Blizzard of old is long gone sadly. They'd laugh at the idea of analyzing what kind of content the players do, and would instead make the game they want to make.

[Tadkins]

There's enough of a playerbase that runs normal/heroic/mythic that if lfr were to be removed WoW could still be healthy. Plus there would be a small influx of lfr heros moving on to normal raiding once they realize it's not that hard to find a guild that raids when you can, and won't hold you to a commitment to attendance.

You'd get just as many, even more most likely, that would have had it with Blizz removing accessibility options and quit. You're fooling yourself if you think there wouldn't be massive fallout and backlash.

So I've been trying to find a welcoming and inclusive guild for years, that lets me play with them and accepts me for my flaws. It definitely isn't that easy. ATM I just run LFR and heroic dungeons because there are no questions asked, no standards to be forced into, and someone like me who isn't a crack master of the game has a place.

[TheRevenantHero]

There's enough of a playerbase that runs normal/heroic/mythic that if lfr were to be removed WoW could still be healthy. Plus there would be a small influx of lfr heros moving on to normal raiding once they realize it's not that hard to find a guild that raids when you can, and won't hold you to a commitment to attendance.

...You are so incredibly wrong. The majority of people do LFR because they either can't commit to a raid team or don't want to. "LFR heroes" won't swap to hire difficulties. They'll just leave.

[Seranthor]

I'm stating what I think the game should be like.

Yes, you did say that. Blizzard for better or worse doesn't agree with you and has gone a different direction.

[TheRevenantHero]

I've never said they should listen to me, I'm stating what I think the game should be like. It's a discussion forum. The "quality first" Blizzard of old is long gone sadly. They'd laugh at the idea of analyzing what kind of content the players do, and would instead make the game they want to make.

LFR gets more traffic than any of the other difficulties. They aren't making the game they want to make 100%. They're keeping things LFR around because players keep participating in it.

[Utrrabbit]

At the moment, you can get better gear than what LFR offers by doing world quests and gear that's miles better by doing covenant stuff. If you're feeling risky, you might even play some random BGs for vastly superior gear.

Between LFR playing no part in casual gear progression while somehow managing to be easier than M0, it's pretty obvious that the mode is not working out as intended. It's time to trim some fat from this bloated behemoth of an endgame design paradigm and axe LFR. Instead, there should be an automated queue for normal with the option of running it as a flexible premade. Normal difficulty is about on par with what should be clearable by a disorganized but motivated pug.

There's absolutely zero reason to have two "easy" difficulties in the form of LFR and normal. They just bloat progression and make within- and between-tier ilevel jumps larger than they have to be.

You can improve it by making it a single boss queue with later bosses unlocked by defeating earlier bosses. M+ could likewise have an automated queue up to 10+ and PvP up to 1800 rating. There's more than enough casual content in this game to create a meaningful progression path outside of organized play. Problem is that Blizzard refuses to make it accessible.

Wait...what?

This just in LFR was designed so shit players can see the end game content while being bad.

You are just learning this?

LFR has always been the joke of the community and anyone who only does LFR the butt of that joke.

[Aliven]

Would there be requirements to join the queue? If so ppl would argue that its not accessible enough. If not, people would argue its too hard because they're grouped with a 350 io demo lock who has 197 ilvl

Same as in LFR. I lvl. Need LFR stuff to queue to normal, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

the reasoning against heroic or even normal being available in an auto grouping system are mechanics

theres a reason lfr has fewer mechanics than normal

Nope, that is not a reason. It would be harder than premade but nothing, absolutely nothing is stoping autojoin pub to cooperate. Hell, it may even be healthy to the community.

[Otimus]

More people would subscribe and play than people would quit if the game actually became an MMO again, imo. The drone reference which you don't seem to get is about the content being mindless. A mindless drone could do it. That's the opposite of what I want. I want a game with a strong server community, where you have to work together with other people to achieve your goals. LFR with its afk-mentality is the opposite of that.

I feel like it's worth reminding people that the lack of this on any appreciable large scale is why LFR got made in the first place.

[Tadkins]

I feel like it's worth reminding people that the lack of this on any appreciable large scale is why LFR got made in the first place.

I totally agree.

Want LFR gone? Work to build a community where it's no longer necessary. Be open to newer players and players who aren't that great at the game. Invite people who are having trouble getting in. You don't need master level warcraft logs rankings to do normal. Stop kicking folks 15 minutes into the raid.

I defend LFR because beyond that, it is a very harsh and very judgmental world out there.

[TheRevenantHero]

I feel like it's worth reminding people that the lack of this on any appreciable large scale is why LFR got made in the first place.

WoW's community is filled with elitist gatekeepers, something you can see even in this thread. So LFR was made because barely anyone was even seeing the raids due to how incredibly harsh most guilds are to people who aren't hardcore raiders.

[Glazey]

What's your point?

That WoD is the worst expansion factually?

[Malkiah]

Does the very existence of something you don’t like offend you this much?

hoooo boy. there's this little thing called "the entire known history of the human race" you might want to look into to answer that.

[TheRevenantHero]

That WoD is the worst expansion factually?

I'm pretty sure Shadowlands took that crown away from WoD.

[Diabloish]

WoW's community is filled with elitist gatekeepers, something you can see even in this thread. So LFR was made because barely anyone was even seeing the raids due to how incredibly harsh most guilds are to people who aren't hardcore raiders.

Asking to change a system in a game or remove it because you don’t think it’s good for it doesn’t mean people are being elitist at all.

It’s an mmo... newsflash, people expect the game to progress through group content and interacting with other players to overcome difficult scenarios. When something comes in the takes away this aspect people tend to think it’s bad for the game. And that doesn’t make it ‘elitist’ at all.

Christ I haven’t raided for a long time, because I do not have the time to be in a guild and on a schedule, so realistically lfr should be the content that was made for me. That’s doesn’t mean I think it’s good for the game at all though. I don’t believe participation trophies are good for the overall feel of mmos, it removes the rewarding aspect as a whole because it gives rewards with no real accomplishment. The elitism comes in when people start treating these players who have achieved less poorly. So assuming I’m being an elitist, even when I would literally be in the same boat as an lfr player simply makes no sense at all.

Like imagine playing a game like league of legends but if you drop to a certain rank you don’t have to cs anymore because they want to make the game easier for those players.

Sorry but that’s the name of the game. People hold strong opinions about how they believe these games should be structured.

[TheRevenantHero]

Asking to change a system in a game or remove it because you don’t think it’s good for it doesn’t mean people are being elitist at all.

It’s an mmo... newsflash, people expect the game to progress through group content and interacting with other players to overcome difficult scenarios. When something comes in the takes away this aspect people tend to think it’s bad for the game. And that doesn’t make it ‘elitist’ at all.

Christ I haven’t raided for a long time, because I do not have the time to be in a guild and on a schedule, so realistically lfr should be the content that was made for me. That’s doesn’t mean I think it’s good for the game at all though. I don’t believe participation trophies are good for the overall feel of mmos, it removes the rewarding aspect as a whole because it gives rewards with no real accomplishment. The elitism comes in when people start treating these players who have achieved less poorly. So assuming I’m being an elitist, even when I would literally be in the same boat as an lfr player simply makes no sense at all.

Like imagine playing a game like league of legends but if you drop to a certain rank you don’t have to cs anymore because they want to make the game easier for those players.

Sorry but that’s the name of the game. People hold strong opinions about how they believe these games should be structured.

You're literally proving once again you are an elitist. LFR gives loot that is lower in ilvl compared to the other three difficulty modes. Someone getting loot in LFR doesn't impact the other difficulties and it doesn't diminish the rewards people get in higher difficulties. Why does someone else's enjoyment bother you so much? Why do they need to play the game the way YOU want them to play it? LFR isn't killing raid groups. LFR isn't ruining the feeling of progressing through mythic. You just have a hardcore gatekeeping mentality.

[Glazey]

I'm pretty sure Shadowlands took that crown away from WoD.

How? Because you weren't rewarded with full bis level gear in the 3rd week?

[Tadkins]

Asking to change a system in a game or remove it because you don’t think it’s good for it doesn’t mean people are being elitist at all.

It’s an mmo... newsflash, people expect the game to progress through group content and interacting with other players to overcome difficult scenarios. When something comes in the takes away this aspect people tend to think it’s bad for the game. And that doesn’t make it ‘elitist’ at all.

Christ I haven’t raided for a long time, because I do not have the time to be in a guild and on a schedule, so realistically lfr should be the content that was made for me. That’s doesn’t mean I think it’s good for the game at all though. I don’t believe participation trophies are good for the overall feel of mmos, it removes the rewarding aspect as a whole because it gives rewards with no real accomplishment. The elitism comes in when people start treating these players who have achieved less poorly. So assuming I’m being an elitist, even when I would literally be in the same boat as an lfr player simply makes no sense at all.

Like imagine playing a game like league of legends but if you drop to a certain rank you don’t have to cs anymore because they want to make the game easier for those players.

Sorry but that’s the name of the game. People hold strong opinions about how they believe these games should be structured.

It is elitist to believe that only the top percentage of players should be allowed to see content, that those on the struggling end deserve to be left out. That is basically the definition of elitism. "the advocacy or existence of an elite as a dominating element in a system or society."

In my eyes, LFR is good for the game because it gives a game to players who didn't have much of a game before. My BC experience was nothing but daily quests and AV. I didn't get to raid because no one would let me in. Please try to convince me that this was somehow "good for me" though. I'm not looking to win a "trophy" or anything, I just want to experience the game set in the world that I love and have read constantly about.

Funny story, I don't play League of Legends because it's such a technical game and the community is extremely harsh toward those who are trying to learn it.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

LFR is there for those that don't raid to see the story of the instance that is usually a continuation of the story of the open world zones. Not a big deal for it to be there. Now back when it was a legitimate gearing path people had to grind out to make tier sets bonuses during progression and stuff it was a major pain in the ass because it was putting people into it that had no business being there. I think it has been since MOP since I ran it. No harm no foul. The item level and player power inflation is going to get out of control every expansion or two with or without LFR and the solution they seem to like for it is squishes. At this point I just throw my hands up and roll with it. Let LFR be LFR and just do the level of content you do and don't worry about the rest. The game is a lot better once people that complain a lot about it figure that out. It isn't like it is actually taking the choice for you to do other content away or forcing you to do it if you don't want to. That is the only time things are an issue.

[TheRevenantHero]

How? Because you weren't rewarded with full bis level gear in the 3rd week?

The story is trash, covenants are a joke, Torghast is also a joke, the Maw is single-handedly the worst zone they've ever made, loot is exceptionally scarce in pve, and traversal across all of the incredibly ugly zones is incredibly annoying. SL literally has no redeeming qualities.

[Assumi]

At the moment, you can get better gear than what LFR offers by doing world quests and gear that's miles better by doing covenant stuff. If you're feeling risky, you might even play some random BGs for vastly superior gear.

Between LFR playing no part in casual gear progression while somehow managing to be easier than M0, it's pretty obvious that the mode is not working out as intended. It's time to trim some fat from this bloated behemoth of an endgame design paradigm and axe LFR. Instead, there should be an automated queue for normal with the option of running it as a flexible premade. Normal difficulty is about on par with what should be clearable by a disorganized but motivated pug.

There's absolutely zero reason to have two "easy" difficulties in the form of LFR and normal. They just bloat progression and make within- and between-tier ilevel jumps larger than they have to be.

You can improve it by making it a single boss queue with later bosses unlocked by defeating earlier bosses. M+ could likewise have an automated queue up to 10+ and PvP up to 1800 rating. There's more than enough casual content in this game to create a meaningful progression path outside of organized play. Problem is that Blizzard refuses to make it accessible.

If by "superfluous" you mean the most used difficulty for raiding and, as per Ion's words, the reason raids can justify having so much dev time, sure. Continue crying to remove it, you've been losing since Cata and will continue to.