TBC is a massive improvement over classic in many terms of the game, most importantly class (and spec) balance and the change of the PVP system, and that there are ways to reaonably gear up without raiding (or PVPing) - although I don't believe many people are going to casually play BC (or any "classic" xpac version).
My gripe with the coming TBC servers is that they will (most likely, obviously no one knows 100%) start with TBCs final patch changes, which means you are going to get OP aoe pala tanks which are going to trivialize many of the heroic dungeons (and several raid encounters).
No, not really.
How can you argue that "Vanilla was alive and well during TBC"? That's nonsense argument. In fact, you seem to be suggesting that on a Classic TBC server, the Classic WoW experience will remain, expect in all the the many ways that it will be different. Not a convincing argument.
When TBC hit, player focus was understandably directed to the new expansion, and that had a direct and significant impact on the old world experience. The Classic WoW experience will be fundamentally different on a Classic TBC server. Just a few examples: The TBC talent trees herald a significant change to the Classic WoW experience, horde have paladins and alliance shamans, the fact that players will go to outland at lvl 58, not 60 and that few will run dungeons to prepare for Classic raids (and that the latter won't be run, except at lvl 70 for fun), and that Shattrath will become the new main city (SW/IF will be be deserted) all underline how different the Classic WoW experience will be on a Classic TBC server. When TBC hit, the Vanilla experience was very different; similar will apply if/when Classic TBC appears.
The Classic WoW experience and Classic TBC experience cannot co-exist on a TBC server. Hence, if we want to retain the Classic WoW experience, we need dedicated Classic WoW servers; similar applies if we want to retain the Classic TBC experience if Classic WotLK becomes a prospect.
TBC was the most fun I ever had with PvP, I'll play it just for that.
Maybe, but as far as I'm informed, the reason blizz chose a later vanilla patch was because they didnt have data from the earlier ones. That likely wont be an issue for TBC, so theyre free to choose whatever patch they deem the most fitting, or do whatever progression they like.
Ah that juicy restoration druid owning everything there is and flying for gold... Of course it will be better.
1.Deadmines
2.Wailing Caverns
3.Ragefire Chasm
4.Blackfathom deeps
5.Zul'farrak
6.Sunken Temple
7.Stratholme
8.Scholomance
9.Stockades
10.Gnomeregan
11.Uldaman
12.Shadowfang Keep
13.Maraudon
I think the only hub that really follows the "TBC Layout" is SM and DM, i think what's also important to note here is that the dungeons were in their design vastly different.
Some people might argue that BRD is also a massive hub, but i argue that it's different because the dungeons contained in there are so vastly different, BRD cannot be compared to LBRS / UBRS in terms of design, both dungeons are pretty unique in their own right.
They are in the same location, but the dungeons contained in there are very different.
Nevermind that no other place compared to Blackrock mountain exists in Classic.
Compare a dungeon like Mana Tombs to Auchenai crypts, those dungeons are very similiar in terms of layout and length, disregarding that neither contains any special reason to go in there outside of loot.
Nevermind that in TBC, every (dungeon) hub follows a very similiar formula:
2-3 dungeons + 1 Raid.
Hellfire Citadel, Coilfang Reservior, Tempest keep and Caverns time are pretty damn similiar by comparison.
The only one that breaks away as far as dungeons are concerned is Auchindoun, which has 4 dungeons but no raid and MT, which is not packed together with any other dungeon.
Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-02-18 at 12:26 PM.
How about 11?
Ragefire Chasm
Wailing Caverns
The Deadmines
Shadowfang Keep
The Stockade
Blackfathom Deeps
Gnomeregan
Uldaman
Zul'Farrak
The Temple of Atal'Hakkar
Scholomance
- - - Updated - - -
lol beat me to it. In my list I excluded DM, Strat, and BRM dungeons as there are multiple dungeons in one area. But I also agree with what you say about BRM as BRD and BRS are pretty different.
Technically, both Strats are the same dungeon since they are connected. We just use two different entrances based on the run we are looking to do.
RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18
Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.
There are good and bad complaints. Do you mean that complainers are always right ?
"Flying will kill the game" ect were not true. And I remember being part of the crowd who said Raid 25 would kill the raiding "scene". That was false too, 20M raids are a LOT better than 40M raids.
Doomsayers have been predicting the "death of wow" every single expansion and so far they were all wrong...
And thunderforging was only introduced in MoP btw...
Last edited by vashe9; 2021-02-18 at 03:12 PM.
No, i'm pointing out that there is some merit to certain complaints and simply because we're on the Internet where Hyperbole is omnipresent, doesn't change that.
Take your "Blood elves will ruin the horde", well, if that somebody really liked the savage image of the Horde, Blood elves were a massive departure from that, especially looking now that blood elves are one the most popular (if not the most popular) race in WoW.
So yeah, for those people, it was a huge blow.
And all the complaints about flying also seems rather ironic under the fact that there was a point in recent history where the devs actually agreed with that and wanted to remove flying from the current expansion, disregarding that pathfinder is still a controversial thing.
That's like toying around with a knife, somebody yelling at you "stop that, you'll kill yourself", ignore him, accidentally cut yourself and you go "well, you're wrong, it didn't kill me".
Sure, he's technically wrong, but that doesn't mean that warning you was unjustified.
And what does this have to do with anything?
tbc is better in a lot of areas but also worse
the welfare is real bad, game will auto complete itself and now people know all the timeline release 'steps' so will meta game everything regarding IoQ, arena and heroic currency.
remember how tons of people said classic was gonna be trash because its gonna be way too easy? ok TBC is gonna be exactly like that but now welfare is everywhere so the time gating portion that classic had from tiny loot is irrelevant.
Last edited by Daffan; 2021-02-18 at 03:31 PM.
Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
It all comes down to how you choose to play the game. Want to rush and burn out the content in 1 month, go for it. Want to take your time and smell the roses, do it.
I'm joining my first Raid in Classic this weekend. I took my time, I enjoyed the roses. And after all this time where people are raid logging and boosting, there are still legit dungeon groups and raids every day. So I don't know where people get the idea that Classic is already dead, and TBC will be dead quickly too.
RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18
Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.
This is the part I remember least fondly. I recall an equal or possibly bigger problem was losing players to more progressed guilds as they were less likely to help attune new players, but would instead just wait until lesser guilds attuned & geared the new players, then recruit those players to the next tier. The ability to progress seems tied to how many loyal players you have in your core group.
"Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
~ Daryl Davis
Ah yes, a return of the toxic "welfare" rhetoric from the elitist crowd. Give it a rest. What is your criteria for judging post-vanilla content (in terms of gear awarding content) as trash? Because the historical sub-numbers from TBC to Wrath (early/mid Cata?) show WoW as at its most popular. Casual content and progression was essential for the growth of the game.