[Speculation] So Andiun gonna be new lich king

[MrLachyG]

It is already terrible writing. And I already clearly demonstrated exactly one huge problem with it in this thread.

And someone has already destroyed your argument in this thread

[C20]

Describe Anduin without saying what he looks like, what costume he wears, his profession, nor what his role is. Describe this character to your friends like they have never played WoW or Warcraft. You can't.

You can do that for characters like Han Solo (rogueish, arrogant, charming) or C3PO (prissy, scared, anal-retentive). You can't do that for Anduin. Anduin has NO personality. The writing is terrible.

Indeed. You could describe Arthas (pre-LK) (charming, honorable, arrogant), Garrosh (arrogant, angry, powerful), Saurfang (honorable, strong, natural leader), Varian (honorable, valiant, brave). I'd argue that Sylvanas, Jaina, Thrall, Baine are difficult to describe - especially concerning since the first 3 have very long-term stories (Maybe Sylvanas could be described as vengeful, but that's all I got) but their characters have gone through so many phases that it's difficult to sum them up. Baine is an outlier, and he feels like a weak leader. His dad died, and I know that really fucks a person up, but he also has as little depth as Anduin... but he's not playing a pivotal role of any sort in the story.

I can even describe the Gnome leader (inquisitive, intelligent, and maybe inelegant in a sense) better than I can describe Anduin, and the Gnome storyline has always felt like sidequest in the lore. Hell, I think I could probably describe Dranosh (pre-death) better than I could describe Anduin, if given the time and motivation to think about it.

Anduin has been leader of the Alliance for a short while, but his character hasn't evolved at all since Pandaria. He's been given quips in cinematics, but his character has the depth of a Dorito. I feel that in order to properly portray a character in a game, they have to be a little bit outlandish, with their emotions exaggerated at least a little bit. Good examples of this are Saurfang, where his focus on honor was shown consistently, as well as Varian where he showed the evolution from hating everything about the Horde because of his past, through to becoming a charismatic and brave leader who would stand the frontline in order to try and save what mattered. Bad examples of this are Garrosh, where you just show ridiculous anime-like power and a lot of yelling.

The former are more nuanced, while the latter is the polar opposite. If I showed the scene from the Legion cinematic where Varian looks at the photo of Anduin, as well as his actions before the airship is in the water, people would recognize what his character embodies. If I show someone anything of what Anduin does, well, I think they'd struggle.

[Kokolums]

Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted.

those aren't personality traits. that is generic leader x. the entire roster of current lore heroes is written that way. they are all the same character. Anduin, Baine, Thrall, etc all could be described with those 4 words. Qui-Gon Jinn and Queen Amidala as well. Its called being constipated. That's terrible writing when heroes all go that route.

- - - Updated - - -

And someone has already destroyed your argument in this thread

No they didn't. They literally described being constipated and those traits can generically be applied to every terribly-written character ever.

[Netherling]

Describe Anduin without saying what he looks like, what costume he wears, his profession, nor what his role is. Describe this character to your friends like they have never played WoW or Warcraft. You can't.

You can do that for characters like Han Solo (rogueish, arrogant, charming) or C3PO (prissy, scared, anal-retentive). You can't do that for Anduin. Anduin has NO personality. The writing is terrible.

You can't do it for Anduin, but another poster has showed that they can. That Red Letter Media video is a dreadful example. They asked people to describe characters they knew well, with characters they didn't know (one woman didn't know who one of the characters even was). I'm sure you'll argue it's because they're not memorable, but it's pretty clear they just aren't as familiar with the newer characters as with the older ones (comparing 1 film to a beloved trilogy).

[Kokolums]

Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted is called being Qui-Gon Jinn. If your character is Qui-Gon Jinn, it has no personality. Its just constipated.

[sador]

You know, I'd actually like to see something like
- Anduin is made to serve by Sylvanas
- Sylvanas keeps having guilt, cause he forced this on him. Also probably Jailer does questionable stuff makes Sylvanas question him more
- Major plot by Jailer uncovered which is not what Sylvanas envisioned, decides to stop him and help us
- Somehow Sylvanas manages to save Anduin and turn him back, but has to sacrafice herself in the process
- Anduin gets more focus next expansion on like, how he lives with guilt over the things hes done with Jailer, and the fact that it was Sylvanas that both slaved and freed him.
- Maybe Arthas is somehow involved as well, and Anduin sees him in different light after these events.

Could be interesting to see some darker path for Anduin and some development of his character. And also some sort of redemption for sylvanas, but I don't think it can result in her not dying, she's done some horrible stuff.

[Netherling]

It is already terrible writing. And I already clearly demonstrated exactly one huge problem with it in this thread.

The character may not be the most interesting to you, but perhaps this new direction will change that?

[MrLachyG]

Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted is called being Qui-Gon Jinn. If your character is Qui-Gon Jinn, it has no personality. Its just constipated.

So because you think those personality traits are generic they somehow don’t count? Oh I’m sorry I didn’t realise I was speaking to the official in charge of deciding what personality traits matter or not. My sincerest apologies

[Vitter]

I dont think so. I think it will be something stupid like Sylvanas herself will take the plunge. To redeem herself and taking a choose she never been allowed to. Or some bullshit like that. Then we get to kill her and release her from her pain as new banshee/lich queen. And Anduin will thank her for not forcing it on him.

[keelr]

I'm not even suprised by now. The current lore team doesnt make anything that makes the wow lore richer. All they do is retcon every character they find. Anduin is gonna be lich king with Frostmoure II., the sword will talk to him? maybe when he dies he will see varyan and say "Father i see only darkness" I think this is pretty original.

[thilicen]

Would rather call him the bitch king. Why is the writing soo bad now?

Yeah, you don't get to comment on other people's writing if all you can bring to the table is "Bitch king", which I can assure you has been done to death and beyond already.

[Kokolums]

So because you think those personality traits are generic they somehow don’t count? Oh I’m sorry I didn’t realise I was speaking to the official in charge of deciding what personality traits matter or not. My sincerest apologies

They DON'T count. Those words can apply to the entire roster of lore heroes.

If someone who knew nothing about WoW asked you to describe the current lore heroes, you are seriously going to say the same things?

What is Anduin like?
Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
What is Baine like?
Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
What is Jaina like?
Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
What is Thrall like?
Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted
What is Qui-Gon like?
Stalwart, naive, hopeful, conflicted

OH THAT IS INCREDIBLY GOOD WRITING CAN'T WAIT.

[Kiwijello]

Would rather call him the bitch king. Why is the writing soo bad now?

I think that's the plan, BUT ol 'Sylvy LOVES her some Andy, so she is going to take the bullet and become the Lich Queen so Andy can live, and, BAM!!!, redemption(ish).

[vian]

Man I love all these ‘DAE writing bad?!?’ threads.

Judging by your own contribution to these forums... You're really not the arbiter of what to post.


OT: And yes, Anduin taking up the mantle to become something else came as no surprise.
I for one figured they'd drop the bomb that he was actually Arthas child, that would be on par with the current writing we have.

[Nemah]

Describe Anduin without saying what he looks like, what costume he wears, his profession, nor what his role is. Describe this character to your friends like they have never played WoW or Warcraft. You can't.

You can do that for characters like Han Solo (rogueish, arrogant, charming) or C3PO (prissy, scared, anal-retentive). You can't do that for Anduin. Anduin has NO personality. The writing is terrible.

What about "goody-two-shoes with artificial moral ambiguities?"

[Karlz0rz]

I'm not on either side of the argument, but this is a bit of a silly stance to take. Blizzard writers are paid professionals, so to try and compare them to random people is just a bit foolish.

I agree, my statement was a bit hyperbole.
But in my mind, if they can critique most of the writing that Blizzard puts out, then they should also be able to provide something to show what could be improved?
Art is subjective to a very strong degree, but it's also objective in other ways.
If you don't have the expertise to actually give good criticism, then you should not be surprised when someone calls you out for it :P.

[Kokolums]

They cannot salvage this writing. You would have to give all the main lore heroes personality transplants which would be jarring and stupid. You either need to outright kill off Anduin, Baine, Jaina and Thrall and make new lore heroes that actually have personalities, or (as I suggest) just scrap the main storyline and do a fork off of WoW classic and not screw up the writing this time.

[Dire]

I think it’s more to do with the fact that these threads are all “ugh Blizz sucks at writing” and that’s literally it. No real discussion. People equate not liking something with it sucking, which isn’t necessarily true

Forums are full of low skill people complaining about things they have no ability to do themselves. Every time I see "Blizz doesn't know x..." i just simply laugh and ignore it. None of these fools knows what a job is, let alone knows how to write or code or DRAW even, yet they have an opinion they believe is valid. They offer no evidence, no technical details or comparisons, and more often then not they spend more time talking about themselves.

TLDR; only fools complain about these kind of things without offering feedback or solutions.

[Verdugo]

Kokolums can you please stop misinterpreting RLM to fit your agenda? Anduin HAS a personality. Is it awful, generic and cancerous to the story? Yes, but he still has a personality.

[Cayumi]

Red Letter Media explained a key difference between good and bad writing here at 6:41.

That was absolutely brilliant, thanks!