Blizzconline Leaks / Speculation / Wishes

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Huh? In what way?

They just turned Anduin into a future raid boss Arthas ripoff. Which means enjoy your Evil High King Turalyon plot for 10.0.

[arkanon]

They just turned Anduin into a future raid boss Arthas ripoff. Which means enjoy your Evil High King Turalyon plot for 10.0.

Oh right, you are actually just saying "if this is the direction the story is going, i dont like it". Not sure how that relates to "pissing all over" retail players?

[Triceron]

But your point had nothing to do with a cinematic or not. As evidence about you stating what you prefer that wasn't even the case with Ulduar. Ulduar wasn't a haphazard madlib, choose your own adventure style of design. It was relevant to the major narrative of Northrend because Yogg-saron was a major influence thing. Blizzard still has the flexibility to address different raids for the sake of it.

What do you think Trial of Valor and Crucible were? Blizzard still has non-story related raids just as they did back in the day. Ruby sanctum and not Ulduar would be the type of flexible raid design you are talking about. There is nothing stopping Blizzard from doing that just because they use a cinematic for the main narrative raids.

No, you simply don't understand my point. Do not mistake that as my point having nothing to do with cinematics.

Read my original post again with the context of cinematics in mind. I specifically criticized the focus of linear narratives, which is what Cinematics play a very big part in bringing everyone's attention to. I don't even play WoW any more but I know all I need to about Shadowland's main plot because everything you need to follow the story is all carried out through cinematics. I don't need to know about some side quest in Maldraxxus or some loose plotline in Ardenweald to understand what's going on.


Even if I didn't explain it there, my post relates to how the nature of leaks has been much more focused and predictable than ever before, and mostly because we know what's gonna happen.

If we're talking about leaks in Wrath of the Lich King and the nature of the first raid; it could have been ANYTHING. As I said, there were loose plotpoints all around. Yes, we KNEW about Ulduar from the quests, but we DIDN'T KNOW it would be the first Raid lined up. Nothing pointed at this to being the first raid; we had just as many loose plots going with the other things I mentioned. It could have been Azjol Nerub, it could have been the Blood Princes, it could have been a Drakkari uprising, it could have been Galakrond's bones being ressurected as a major world boss. There were plenty of loose plot points with *no cinematics* to point the priorities in any direction.

Look at leaks today. There's at least 3 variations of "Anduin will be corrupted" leaks that happened, and they otherwise guessed incorrectly that it would be a Drust/Kel'thuzad raid. Some even said that Arthas would come back as a good guy in the patch. These kind of 'Leak's are all derivative of the same narrative that's being heavily foreshadowed here, to the point where it's not a matter of if- but of when.

Yeah, we're not dealing with Kel'thuzad now, but guess what? We will down the line because he's TOTALLY set up in the narrative for that. We had him front and center of some pretty big narrative cinematics, they aren't just gonna let that slide or set up some other big-bad in his place. There aren't so many big bads in the Shadowlands greater narrative that will really keep us guessing. We pretty much know all the major players because they're front-and-center in any ingame cinematic. The chances of some threat outside the main narrative like Lei Shen is pretty low nowadays. Those kind of things just end up as dungeon/megadungeon content.


Cinematics are a big part of the linear narrative. If they are dedicating resources to making an ingame cinematic around a certain character, then the chances of them being important in the future goes up exponentially compared to some random loose end we find in some world quest or dungeon which *might* tie in to a big Raid in the future. There's no comparison here. If Wrath were designed with today's narrative system in mind, then Yogg Saron or Loken would have been seeded into a cinematic well before we got an Ulduar release. Anub'arak would probably have some pretty big 'I'll get you next time!' in-game cinematic too, instead of how it used to be and we just killed him as a dungeon boss only to have him surprisingly return as a Raid boss in the Tournament. They completely hand-hold the audience now with the narrative.

[Revamp Man]

With this, all of them are now done. Magni was made a pawn when we hand-delivered the Heart of Azeroth to N'zoth tomb when Azshara freed him. 5 Torches were the 5 Pillars of Eternity, Lord of Ravens was Medivh or Odyn. Boy King quote was the last one that was left, none ended up being red herrings.

there were 6 pillars though
and medivh and odyn didnt really do anything

i think we still have a couple

[Dracullus]

Oh right, you are actually just saying "if this is the direction the story is going, i dont like it". Not sure how that relates to "pissing all over" retail players?

Most ironic is that he's saying it while hyping himself for TBC, literally worst written story from Blizzard (and "ruining" big lore figures was like it's specialty).

[rhorle]

Read my original post again with the context of cinematics in mind. I specifically criticized the focus of linear narratives, which is what Cinematics play a very big part in bringing everyone's attention to. I don't even play WoW any more but I know all I need to about Shadowland's main plot because everything you need to follow the story is all carried out through cinematics. I don't need to know about some side quest in Maldraxxus or some loose plotline in Ardenweald to understand what's going on.

But Blizzard specifically used in-game questing to convey that stuff rather then a cinematic. The 3.1 raid could have been anything. You are right. But we already knew what Ulduar would specifically be about prior to 3.1 coming out. Just as Blizzard could have done a different raid then Anduin/sylvanas for 9.1. The presence of the Torghast cinematic did not restrict what the next raid could be about.

It only informed us what such a focus for a raid would contain. Just as we knew what Ulduar would contain based on the questing experience. The leaks of today all focus on Anduin because he is what we saw to be a major focus of the expansion from the very first starting experience. So of course he will focus in a raid or major narrative at some point. Duh.

Of course Kel'thuzad is totally set up to appear in the narrative. That has nothing to do with linear story telling but simply just story telling in the first place. The only way you can't have bad guys set up is if they all are conjured out of thin air with no previous attachment to the story. WotLK didn't do that despite the praise you give it compared to the modern story telling.

[Triceron]

Just as Blizzard could have done a different raid then Anduin/sylvanas for 9.1. The presence of the Torghast cinematic did not restrict what the next raid could be about.

But they didn't, and we knew that sooner or later it would be addressed in or around a raid because that's where all of their major narrative content is conveyed.


Where else does the major narrative progress? All of anything that is relevant to the major narratives are all from raid content. It's what Blizzard has chosen to do with the story for the past 8+ years. That is my criticism, that the narrative has overwhelmingly influenced the potential raid themes we get.

It only informed us what such a focus for a raid would contain. Just as we knew what Ulduar would contain based on the questing experience. The leaks of today all focus on Anduin because he is what we saw to be a major focus of the expansion from the very first starting experience. So of course he will focus in a raid or major narrative at some point. Duh.

Why should there be any singular narrative that informs us what raid content we get? The only major narratives that used to happen were conveyed in any number of different methods, from simple dungeon content to a particularly long quest line. If you didn't do the content, you didn't get the story, and that's an effort on part of the players to do in order to get the full picture.

And no, we didn't *know* that Ulduar would be anything. Back then, they had full control over content and willingly left huge gaps of content out of the picture - EVEN if they had presented their plans to us at a Blizzcon. Remember Azjol Nerub? We KNEW that it was going to be a zone. Yet nothing happened. Remember Abyssal Maw and Neptulon? We KNEW about this raid, but they didn't make it. Remember War of the Ancients Hyjal? We KNEW the questlines aimed at bringing back the Ancients and were leading to a new Caverns of Time raid, and it didn't happen.

The game was flexible enough that we didn't know Ulduar was going to be a thing at all. It could have just as easily been made into a future dungeon that addressed the situation instead of a full-on Raid. Look at the Infinite Dragonflight's conclusion in Cataclysm - all happened in a dungeon, not a Raid. Yet it would have always been possible to have a full CoT Infinite Dragonflight raid, and the overall narrative wasn't so laser-focused that it only made Raids out of whatever was going to be directly related to taking down Deathwing. We had a wealth of non Main-narrative Raids in the game, like CoT Hyjal (Archimonde), Karazhan, Zul'aman, Obsidian Sanctum, Throne of the Four Winds, Throne of Thunder, all of Vanilla's raids and plenty more.

Since WoD, all Raid content has increasingly been an extension of the main narrative more than ever before.

Of course Kel'thuzad is totally set up to appear in the narrative. That has nothing to do with linear story telling but simply just story telling in the first place. The only way you can't have bad guys set up is if they all are conjured out of thin air with no previous attachment to the story. WotLK didn't do that despite the praise you give it compared to the modern story telling.

It has everything to do with the linear storyline! We KNOW he will be in a future raid because everything in the quests/main narrative sets it up.

He's so involved with the storyline that I highly doubt they would simply address it in a dungeon or anything less.

[Three Faced Goddess]

We know there is a Scarlet Monastery quest with the Dark Rangers (the good ones) being worked on, so it's likely.

True, the quest is still in the database and has been tweaked and changed a few times.

Is it wrong that I hope Anduin stays undead/corrupted? This desire isn't born of spite towards the character or the Alliance, but motivated by a desire to see the consequences of such a major development actually mean something in game and to the story. Anduin has been subject to a series of misfortunes and despite barely having time to process and grieve, he soldiered through them all and grew as a character. He has shown an admirable strength of will for one so young. To have him fight the Jailer and Sylvanas with all of his might against corruption after being weakened and worn down by torture, to expend of all his effort only to still be transformed shows us how high the stakes are. There's a real sense of worry for the character. To have Anduin wreak havoc for three days and then cleanse him so quick and easily rips all of the tension and consequences away. It doesn't matter if it's that easy.

If death was as meaningless in real life as it is in game, we wouldn't cherish life as much. We'd all be walking butt naked across the freeway in rush hour traffic because we'd just rez anyway.

[rhorle]

It has everything to do with the linear storyline! We KNOW he will be in a future raid because everything in the quests/main narrative sets it up.

So just like Ulduar right? Where yogg-saron was set up to the big bad guy along with corrupted keepers. Weird how your need to hate on current wow keeps blinding you to the facts that you keep trying to deny. We learned about Ulduar as a raid both from developer talks outside of the game and the in-game story lines. Just like we learned that Anduin would be a focus through the narrative in the game.

That still doesn't mean they were required to use him for 9.1. They could have pushed him off to a 9.2 raid and we had a different raid theme for 9.1 while still getting cinematics about Anduin's decent into the Jailers grasp. You also forget how Arthas was present at every turn in the story of WotLK. He had several appearances while questing. He showed up in a few instances. He was all over the place and we all knew he was going to be used sooner or later.

Yet you ignore all that because you have this focus on hating modern story telling of WoW while ignoring how all of your issues existed in the past in one form or another.

[JusticeGlory]

I wonder when we can get over this whole faction thing and be able to play together, Horde & Alliance. I know it's a fundamental part of WoW's identity but it just doesn't make much sense anymore because we spend more time as friends than enemies, even when we're supposed to be "at war". Not entirely sure how War Mode would work exactly if this happened but it'd sure be nice to play any race.

[AngerFork]

True, the quest is still in the database and has been tweaked and changed a few times.

Is it wrong that I hope Anduin stays undead/corrupted? This desire isn't born of spite towards the character or the Alliance, but motivated by a desire to see the consequences of such a major development actually mean something in game and to the story. Anduin has been subject to a series of misfortunes and despite barely having time to process and grieve, he soldiered through them all and grew as a character. He has shown an admirable strength of will for one so young. To have him fight the Jailer and Sylvanas with all of his might against corruption after being weakened and worn down by torture, to expend of all his effort only to still be transformed shows us how high the stakes are. There's a real sense of worry for the character. To have Anduin wreak havoc for three days and then cleanse him so quick and easily rips all of the tension and consequences away. It doesn't matter if it's that easy.

If death was as meaningless in real life as it is in game, we wouldn't cherish life as much. We'd all be walking butt naked across the freeway in rush hour traffic because we'd just rez anyway.

I see this somewhat as the difference between Tolkien style fantasy and George RR Martin style fantasy. In Tolkien style, the good guys generally survive while the bad guys die, and the good guys that die do so in spectacular fashion. In Martin style, death can come for anyone at any time and while it often makes sense at the time, it can feel almost a bit random. WoW generally speaking has been mostly Tolkien style with a few small random deaths (like Vol'jin) that are generally maligned at the time.

I do see your point that if Anduin comes out in 10.0 like it was all a bad dream, it's going to make the Jailer look like even more of a weak clown than the opening Maw scenario does currently. There would be some very interesting storylines to come out if Anduin did stay in this Lich slave setup. Is Turalyon now the defacto true king of Stormwind? What would Anduin's path be once the Jailer is defeated, and what remaining impact would the armor of domination have without the Jailer to guide it? And how would the rest of the Alliance feel about Anduin if he were to return in that form?

Still though, I'd like to see him make a full recovery if for no other reason than I don't see those stories being told as they should be. As I don't see Anduin actually dying in this expansion, him not being redeemed likely means he gets placed in the "break glass in case of plot emergency" box next to Illidan and generally unused for a while. He still has too much plot life left IMO to be stuck in that box right now.

[Triceron]

So just like Ulduar right? Where yogg-saron was set up to the big bad guy along with corrupted keepers.

Ulduar was just _one_ example.

A better example would be Lei Shen though. Even if the Mogu were a present threat, we would have known relatively little about Lei Shen and his ressurection. It was a fun little side adventure that didn't have anything overtly related to the Horde/Alliance war that was being pushed as a part of the main conflict.

Weird how your need to hate on current wow keeps blinding you to the facts that you keep trying to deny.

Hatred? I voiced a simple criticism on the current direction of the narrative. I'm not invested in WoW's raids or story at all, so no I don't bear any hatred towards how the narrative plays out. I'm just watching from the sidelines and commenting on how much more predictable things are now than before.


What I am frustrated at though is how *you* are misunderstanding my responses.

I didn't say we knew nothing about Ulduar. I openly acknowledge that Ulduar was set up to be expected as potential future content. I don't know why you are so hung up on 'proving' this point when I've fully acknowledged it. If you're talking about me saying 'the threats came from nowhere' I meant that in relation to the Main Narrative, where most of the focus of questing was still being directed towards ICC and recovering from the losses at Wrathgate. Also, I think you may be unaware that Storm Peaks itself was a completely optional end-game zone, and most of the dungeons were completely optional as well. Back then, there was no real cinematic narrative and you pretty much chose how to play - you could literally level up to max before Storm Peaks and go straight into Naxxramas. No one really knew what was going to be set up for 3.1, 3.2 etc. We only had an idea that ICC was going to be set up as a final raid.

I said we wouldn't have predicted Ulduar was going to be a Raid, or that it would be the X.1 Raid at that. You even agreed here. The truth is that Raids back then did not have to focus on a main narrative of taking down the big bad. There was much more open reason to address side adventures such as taking down a growing threat of an Old God that was being hinted at through quests and dungeons. We didn't have a Wrathgate-like cinematic in 3.0 showing us how Yogg Saron was gonna manipulate the Alliance and Horde and now we have to raid Ulduar to stop him. It was all presented as-is without any set up other than the quests and dungeon content. If you didn't do the dungeons, didn't do the quests, you wouldn't have known about Ulduar. You would have had to wait for 3.1's Launch Trailer to see Brann running from Ulduar and talking about how it's the place you're going to next.

That still doesn't mean they were required to use him for 9.1. They could have pushed him off to a 9.2 raid and we had a different raid theme for 9.1 while still getting cinematics about Anduin's decent into the Jailers grasp.

And that's the difference with Ulduar. Back in ~2008, Blizzard treated the narrative very differently and much more openly. They didn't have to address the Storm Peaks storyline through a raid. That is my point. My example again is Infinite Dragonflight storyline being open ended and concluding through one Dungeon. We literally killed a corrupted ASPECT in a dungeon setting, not a raid.

Anduin and Sylvanas WOULD have to be addressed in a raid setting, because they are a major part of the main narrative, and all of the cinematics and main narrative are given to us to hype up raids. That is the direction that WoW takes today, and that's all I'm pointing out. I'm not saying this is a terrible travesty or anything like that, I'm just saying it's predictable, because Blizzard is purposefully foreshadowing their narratives and they are choosing to play out those main narratives through each of the raids.

It was harder to predict an Ulduar raid in Wrath because the content was so open-ended that there were many more possibilities on which ones would be addressed in raids and which ones would simply be addressed in dungeons or quests. We didn't have specially tailored in-game cinematics to direct our attention at specific events that we know would be addressed later in Raids. At most, we had Wrathgate to set up Drannosh and hint at Bolvar. Otherwise even Putress didn't even become a Raid Boss, they didn't use the cinematics to set up future raid content the way that they do now. They just had him doing something evil, we had an event in Undercity, and that was that.

Yet you ignore all that because you have this focus on hating modern story telling

Nah bro, you're projecting. Read all my posts again, I didn't say anything negative about modern story telling at all. Just because it's predictable doesn't mean it's bad. My points were all tailored at addressing your misconceptions, that's all. You assumed that I was saying Ulduar was completely unexpected - I clarified that it was expected to be addressed, but not _predictable_ as a future raid considering how Blizzard handled multiple open narratives through different mediums (Dungeons, Events/Scendarios) rather than foreshadow a singular narrative Raid as they would now.

Again, where is the hatred here?


I think you should to take a step back and come back later and read these posts again when you're not so defensive. Nothing I've said here indicates that I have any hatred over modern WoW at all, my criticism =/= complaint. Modern WoW's isn't worse just because it's more linear than before. It's simply different, and I've voiced my opinion that my preference lies towards more unpredictable, disconnected content like in the first 3 expansions. That's not 'hatred of modern WoW'.

[Three Faced Goddess]

I see this somewhat as the difference between Tolkien style fantasy and George RR Martin style fantasy. In Tolkien style, the good guys generally survive while the bad guys die, and the good guys that die do so in spectacular fashion. In Martin style, death can come for anyone at any time and while it often makes sense at the time, it can feel almost a bit random. WoW generally speaking has been mostly Tolkien style with a few small random deaths (like Vol'jin) that are generally maligned at the time.

I do see your point that if Anduin comes out in 10.0 like it was all a bad dream, it's going to make the Jailer look like even more of a weak clown than the opening Maw scenario does currently. There would be some very interesting storylines to come out if Anduin did stay in this Lich slave setup. Is Turalyon now the defacto true king of Stormwind? What would Anduin's path be once the Jailer is defeated, and what remaining impact would the armor of domination have without the Jailer to guide it? And how would the rest of the Alliance feel about Anduin if he were to return in that form?

Still though, I'd like to see him make a full recovery if for no other reason than I don't see those stories being told as they should be. As I don't see Anduin actually dying in this expansion, him not being redeemed likely means he gets placed in the "break glass in case of plot emergency" box next to Illidan and generally unused for a while. He still has too much plot life left IMO to be stuck in that box right now.

Thank you for seeing my point! Anduin remaining corrupted/undead would create a lot of interesting story opportunities for sure. In an unlikely scenario LK Anduin could replace Mr. Chippenfail/Space Heater as the Lich King (freed from the corruption of the Jailer) and reform the Scourge into a neutral faction whose goal is to protect Azeroth kind of like Azeroths answer to Maldraxxus. It would definitely cause tension and dissent within the Alliance for sure. But you're right, Anduin does have a lot of plot life left.

[Le Conceptuel]

Most ironic is that he's saying it while hyping himself for TBC, literally worst written story from Blizzard (and "ruining" big lore figures was like it's specialty).

"My people have seen so much, suffered so much, whatever shall I do ... ?"

"Just turn inexplicably super-evil."

"Good idea, KJ, thanks!"

[rhorle]

A better example would be Lei Shen though. Even if the Mogu were a present threat, we would have known relatively little about Lei Shen and his ressurection. It was a fun little side adventure that didn't have anything overtly related to the Horde/Alliance war that was being pushed as a part of the main conflict.

Lei-shen and the Mogu story line was foreshadowed by quests prior to the patch the raid was introduced. So that also isn't a great example. Again we knew he was a threat set up by the narrative. The only difference is it wasn't done through a cinematic. It is exactly the same what is happening now. I am not misunderstanding your responses. I am just calling them flat out wrong.

We still don't know what will be set up for 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 etc. At least we didn't before the recent Blizzcon leaks that reveal Anduin as the focus for 9.1. All we had were the story hints that they would be a future subject but not exactly when they would appear. The narrative wasn't "open" in 2008 compared to now. You are again just applying a different perspective to it. It has always been treated the same. It was not harder to predict that Ulduar was going to be a raid because it was set up to be that way from launch.

It is hatred because you are applying rose tinted glass to anything "modern" and labeling it as bad or "non-linear" or whatever other term just because you don't like it. When the same stuff existed in past expansions including the ones you directly use as examples of what was better. Isn't that weird? That the examples you keep using are actually the same as what has happened with Anduin in 9.0. He was foreshadowed to be an important figure for future story just like Ulduar and the Thunder King were. But it is somehow different now because of a cinematic showing it rather then zone quests and story.

[TheFirstOnes]

If you do that, you need to replace world of warcraft with wow at classic.

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...ic,shadowlands


heres wow classic vs wow shadowlands
https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...%20shadowlands

Bruh, literally who cares? People enjoy their own style of WoW. One having more searches doesn't mean it's better.

[Triceron]

Lei-shen and the Mogu story line was foreshadowed by quests prior to the patch the raid was introduced. So that also isn't a great example. Again we knew he was a threat set up by the narrative. The only difference is it wasn't done through a cinematic. It is exactly the same what is happening now. I am not misunderstanding your responses. I am just calling them flat out wrong.

Nope.

You're addressing a very different thing.

You're addressing the fact that Lei Shen was expected because there was information seeded prior to the Raid.

I'm not contending this fact. Yes, there were plenty of seeds in the Mogu storylines that foreshadowed many things.


However you couldn't predict that this was going to make it into the game as Raid content. That is my overall point. You wouldn't know that it was important enough to be addressed in a Raid. The difference now is that we DO know certain characters and places are going to be addressed because of heavy foreshadowing in the form of the main narrative and ingame cinematics.

We still don't know what will be set up for 9.1, 9.2, 9.3 etc. At least we didn't before the recent Blizzcon leaks that reveal Anduin as the focus for 9.1.

But we pretty much have all the information we need to formulate potential ideas of what 9.2 and 9.3 would be, and what it likely won't be.

Back in the day, you wouldn't be able to really discount any possibility because it was all there.

Today, if I said we'd get a Drust/Wild Hunt raid or a Craftenium Raid, we pretty much know those aren't going likely to be things or places that will be addressed as a raid setting even if there's some nice big loose ends to check out. The possibilities are a lot lower considering we have direct narrative focus on bigger things to address.

BFA was similar in this way. We might not have known 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3 directly, but once the ball gets rolling and the cinematics are shown, the pictures are painted and the possibilities of some external side adventure/threat raid goes down significantly. I mean name all the open-ended hints at threats that you saw in BFA. Everything that was deal with, or not dealt with that had potential for exploration in the future. An ancient Sethrak temple raid. A grand Pirate Fortress raid. Heck, even a return of more powerful Silithids and a raid to address the Wound in Silithus.

All those possibilities are very low because the narrative continued to push in the direction of Sylvanas and Azshara as the main focus of the narrative. We knew Azshara was going to be addressed, and Nazjatar was predicted in plenty of fake leaks for obvious reasons. It was the most logical conclusion to take the fight, and not a question of if but of when. That's why any leak, fake or real, all had to do with Azshara in it. There was almost zero possibility that it was going to be some side or external threat that we were dealing with throughout BFA. It wasn't going to be a Nathanos raid, it wasn't going to be a fixing Mekkatorque/finding Mechagon raid, it wasn't even going to be a Battle for Azerite raid. These were also many different foreshadowed plot points, but they were in much lower priority in the main narrative considering Azshara was primed as a major player and she hadn't shown up in full capacity yet. We knew after 8.1 that we were going to be dealing directly with Azshara in some capacity.

It is hatred because you are applying rose tinted glass to anything "modern" and labeling it as bad or "non-linear" or whatever other term just because you don't like it.

When did I ever label anything as bad?

Please, quote me when I said when anything was bad.

There is a difference between not liking something and saying something is bad. I don't like milk chocolate. If I said this, you might equate it to me saying milk chocolate is bad, when in reality I'm voicing out an opinion, and I can explain that my reason is because it's too sweet and I prefer dark chocolate instead. That doesn't mean I've labeled milk chocolate as bad.

You're being overly defensive. Again, I've not labeled anything in modern WoW as being bad. You're just reading everything I write as though I'm intentionally trashing modern WoW, when in reality I'm defending my points because you're actually the one attacking every one of my points as though the linear narrative should never be criticized or discussed.

I've explained my position. You're the one refusing to listen.

[rhorle]

However you couldn't predict that this was going to make it into the game as Raid content. That is my overall point. You wouldn't know that it was important enough to be addressed in a Raid. The difference now is that we DO know certain characters and places are going to be addressed because of heavy foreshadowing in the form of the main narrative and ingame cinematics.

So we couldn't use heavy foreshadowing in the narrative to predict Ulduar and Thunder King being raids but we can for Anduin? Again you are applying different standards simply because you need an excuse to dislike modern wow story telling versus that of the past. When that of the past still fits what you dislike about modern story telling.

Craftenium isn't likely to be a raid because it is only mentioned in a sinstone. That is hardly on the same level as Ulduar or the Thunder King was which shows how dishonest you have to be in order to try and prove your point. A Drust raid on the other hand is something a lot of people have speculated about given their major presence in the story. Something you say can't exist in modern story telling yet actually does. Weird right?

You don't have any idea of what 9.2 or 9.3 will bring for a raid. Stop lying to your everyone here if you won't yourself. All we can guess is that the Jailer will be part of one of the raids. You know just like we knew that Arthas would be part of a raid. But literally nothing else is known about future raids. You disliking something is the same as calling it bad. Because your entire dislike is based on how bad you find the current story telling. The only one here being defensive is you who keeps shying away from the argument and terms you have used yourself to focus on me. How I'm defensive. How I'm not listening to you. What is next in your shifting of the goal posts to distract from your terrible arguments?

[Triceron]

You don't have any idea of what 9.2 or 9.3 will bring for a raid. Stop lying to your everyone here if you won't yourself.

Did I say I know what it will bring for a raid? No.

But we know many potential things that would have to be addressed because it's primed in directly by the narrative.

Things that need to be addressed, like

1- Finding or freeing the Runecarver/Primus of Maldraxxia. Likely is happening now in 9.1, and if not, would have to be addressed in the near future.
2- Dealing with Kel'thuzad. He's primed as a significant threat, and we will very likely deal with him in a raid setting, either 9.2 or 9.3
3- Dealing with Anduin if his corruption is not fully addressed in 9.1


And as we get more main narrative cinematics, we will get a stronger idea of what we're actually going to be approaching ahead.

And with more that we know, we can further hone down what raid settings won't be likely through process of elimination. I'm pointing out a clear difference to how things used to be, when you couldn't simply use a process of elimination based on information from the main narrative to hone down what potential raids we're going to get.

You disliking something is the same as calling it bad.

Um, no? Not the same at all.

It's like Overwatch characters in Heroes of the Storm. I don't like them as much as I like classic Warcraft characters, but it doesn't mean I hate them. I'll still play them and everything, I just wouldn't go out of my way to pick as playing them and prefer others not to as well.

Also, I never said I dislike modern WoW or the modern narrative either. I just think it's predictable because all of the major foreshadowing is happening in the cinematics and main narrative, rather than be loose or ambiguous throughout the questlines. Honestly I don't know why you think I hate WoW at all.

[rhorle]

Did I say I know what it will bring for a raid? No.

"But we pretty much have all the information we need to formulate potential ideas of what 9.2 and 9.3 would be, and what it likely won't be."

I guess you forgot about that line huh? This is part of the problem. You state whatever you need to in order to remain correct and then try to claim you didn't say it afterwards. Gaining more cinematics to get a better understanding of what is coming is the same exact thing as getting more quest/story content to get a better understanding of what is coming.

The only difference between then and now is using cinematics. Something you have earlier denied it being about. The very fact that you have a list of things that need to be addressed shows that the narrative of current wow is not all linear. Weird right? After all this time you so easily undercut your argument.