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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I mean, let's not let PG&E or ERCOT off the hook here; both are for profit companies.

    And profit is money that could have been used for said infrastructure investments, but wasn't because... Something something invisible handjob of the free market etc.
    I think most of the electric providers in the US are for profit. There are exceptions like Los Angeles Water and Power. San Diego Gas & Electric, our local provider, is a subsidiary of Sempra Energy. They do constant upgrading - undergrounding all the lines, replacing wooden power poles with metal poles, and installing infrared cameras on all of their main transmission towers for early wildfire detection, etc. We pay for all of those upgrades in the form of the highest electricity rate in the US. Is it worth it? I guess.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I mean, let's not let PG&E or ERCOT off the hook here; both are for profit companies.

    And profit is money that could have been used for said infrastructure investments, but wasn't because... Something something invisible handjob of the free market etc.
    I mean ya!!! ....

    except for the part where ERCOT is a membership-based 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation.....Now the companies that are part of the whole grid, that's another can of worms.

    As for PG&E we had a huge separate thread on them last year during the fires so i won't comment on them to open that can of worms about how the real failure was the denial of requested $$ for upgrades and maintenance. I would have cost many multiples of the profit they had over the last 10-20 years just to do some of the upgrades.

    Yes profit is a problem, but overall the bigger problem is taxpayers/customers do not want to pay the necessary rates to maintain and upgrade the current system.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  3. #303
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    I think most of the electric providers in the US are for profit.
    Maybe that fact and the shitty state of American infrastructure are not a coincidence, is my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    I think most of the electric providers in the US are for profit. There are exceptions like Los Angeles Water and Power. San Diego Gas & Electric, our local provider, is a subsidiary of Sempra Energy. They do constant upgrading - undergrounding all the lines, replacing wooden power poles with metal poles, and installing infrared cameras on all of their main transmission towers for early wildfire detection, etc. We pay for all of those upgrades in the form of the highest electricity rate in the US. Is it worth it? I guess.
    well most utility companies are publicly owned, but # of customers served the majority is investor owned

    Old data but relevant
    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=40913
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Maybe that fact and the shitty state of American infrastructure are not a coincidence, is my point.
    Personally I think it has more to do with the decentralized nature of the US government. This video is a perfect example. A road along the border of TX and AK. Guess which side has the snow plowed. Also, it bears to ask why not plow the other side also? This apply not only to electricity, but to water, dams and levees.

    https://twitter.com/mikeseidel/statu...620800008?s=20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    well most utility companies are publicly owned, but # of customers served the majority is investor owned

    Old data but relevant
    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=40913
    Noted. I have never dealt with small electricity generators before. I did not realize there were that many.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Personally I think it has more to do with the decentralized nature of the US government. This video is a perfect example. A road along the border of TX and AK. Guess which side has the snow plowed. Also, it bears to ask why not plow the other side also? This apply not only to electricity, but to water, dams and levees.
    Texas. Independence. Don't want or need no help from those Clinton loving commies in Arkansas. It's their right to drive on their own snow covered roads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  7. #307
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Cat View Post
    But for real, I don't understand why conservatives are trying so hard to blame windmills. I live in Massachusetts where it regularly reaches below freezing temperatures and windmills work just fine. In fact, the last two weeks we've averaged about 4 feet of snow and 10 degrees F.
    It's just willful ignorance and refusal to take responsibility.

    https://www.power-technology.com/pro...slandwindfarm/
    https://www.antarctica.gov.au/antarc...gy/wind-power/


    If Antarctica can use wind turbines, it isn't too cold for wind power in motherfuckin' Texas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Personally I think it has more to do with the decentralized nature of the US government. This video is a perfect example. A road along the border of TX and AK. Guess which side has the snow plowed. Also, it bears to ask why not plow the other side also?
    One word.

    Liability.

    Who's responsible for accidental damage done by an AZ snowplow on TX roadways? Arizona, because it's their plow and driver, or Texas, for refusing to have either?

    But it's probably Arizona, right? Yeah. That's why they won't do it. State law allows them to plow Arizona roads within certain bylaw constraints, but they don't have the same privileges for Texas.


  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If Antarctica can use wind turbines, it isn't too cold for wind power in motherfuckin' Texas.
    The way this line is styled made me laugh out loud but also pissed me off. It absolutely is a matter of not wanting to not take responsibility. Self-serving, selfish snakes.

    My mom lives outside of Austin and hasn't had power for 3 days now. I am more than a little angry, actually.

  9. #309
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The way this line is styled made me laugh out loud but also pissed me off. It absolutely is a matter of not wanting to not take responsibility. Self-serving, selfish snakes.

    My mom lives outside of Austin and hasn't had power for 3 days now. I am more than a little angry, actually.
    It's not even a matter of responsibility.

    It's a matter of who is lining their pockets with cash. And it's not wind turbine manufacturers.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I mean, let's not let PG&E or ERCOT off the hook here; both are for profit companies.
    I remain pretty pissed that PGE isn't getting "statized" and run as a public utility after their bankruptcy. It has no business remaining private with how poorly it's run.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Personally I think it has more to do with the decentralized nature of the US government. This video is a perfect example. A road along the border of TX and AK. Guess which side has the snow plowed. Also, it bears to ask why not plow the other side also? This apply not only to electricity, but to water, dams and levees.


    Noted. I have never dealt with small electricity generators before. I did not realize there were that many.
    We had one in upstate New York that had a little damn on a little river serving 11 people, no freaking joke. They were getting subsidies to provide power from the state



    as for that plowing, I would imagine they are not licensed to operate a plow on state roads for state roads in another state?
    I am sure no one would have complained, but then again there are so many Assholes....
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The way this line is styled made me laugh out loud but also pissed me off. It absolutely is a matter of not wanting to not take responsibility. Self-serving, selfish snakes.

    My mom lives outside of Austin and hasn't had power for 3 days now. I am more than a little angry, actually.
    Because it saved them money back in the 90's until today. By not being federally standardized on their infrastructure they didn't have to pay for things like upgrades on their infrastructure or preventive measures against extreme weather. Now by saving a few million back then it will more then likely be costing Texas billions today after all is said and done. With more then likely a sizeable portion coming out of people's pockets due to insurance companies looking for any possible loophole they can to get out of paying a single cent.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    One word.

    Liability.

    Who's responsible for accidental damage done by an AZ snowplow on TX roadways? Arizona, because it's their plow and driver, or Texas, for refusing to have either?

    But it's probably Arizona, right? Yeah. That's why they won't do it. State law allows them to plow Arizona roads within certain bylaw constraints, but they don't have the same privileges for Texas.
    Silly Canadian AZ is no where near Texas... Its Arkansas



    But seriously TX could have easily called up Arkansas and come up with a contractual arrangement on that road that allowed them to assist just like towns do for each other around here.
    But $$$

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    Quote Originally Posted by pathora44 View Post
    Because it saved them money back in the 90's until today. By not being federally standardized on their infrastructure they didn't have to pay for things like upgrades on their infrastructure or preventive measures against extreme weather. Now by saving a few million back then it will more then likely be costing Texas billions today after all is said and done. With more then likely a sizeable portion coming out of people's pockets due to insurance companies looking for any possible loophole they can to get out of paying a single cent.
    Its the boomer effect. They have basically done this to almost everything in this country.


    For example, its why they stopped increasing social security taxes a fraction of a % ever few years in the 1990's. Save the money in the short term, end up with 74% of your benefits in 2035!!.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    Texas. Independence. Don't want or need no help from those Clinton loving commies in Arkansas. It's their right to drive on their own snow covered roads.
    AK needs to build a wall on that road so no TX vehicles cross over and hit anyone from AK!!!

    ...and make TX pay for it!!

    Womp womp
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Its the boomer effect. They have basically done this to almost everything in this country.
    Yep, kick your problems down the road and let people down there deal with it. This is even more expanded upon if you gain a profit today for kicking your problem down the road no matter how much the problem inflates in cost or damages. They will also keep kicking the problem down the road for even no profit as long as they don't have to deal with it no matter how much the cost/damages compound each time they kick it down the road.

  15. #315
    Just remember everyone, Rick Perry says Texans will gladly suffer for even longer if it means keeping the federal government's grubby hands out of their state. I wonder if most Texans agree with that statement. Hopefully they reflect real long and hard on this and ask themselves if they want to continue electing incompetent, self-serving shitheads like him, Cruz, Abbott, etc.
    “Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible. If it doesn’t happen, you’re responsible.” -- Donald J. Trump, 2013

    "I don't take responsibility at all."
    -- Donald J. Trump, 2020

  16. #316
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    The Next Season of Celebrity Survivor...



    Should include more of America's worst governors, Kristi Noem, Ron De Santis, and Andrew Cuomo.
    Government Affiliated Snark

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Cat View Post
    Not gonna lie, that's a lot more than I expected. But still, it seems pretty disingenuous of these news outlets to place so much of the blame on renewable energy when there are ways to winterize windmills and also there's the fact that these gas and coal plants failed too.

    Again, not subtle.
    It should be noted that while those numbers show wind as accounting for about 25% of power, apparently in the wintertime wind only accounts for 10% of Texas's power.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/dont-bl...es-11613500788

    Just as observers blamed high solar penetration for California’s electricity blackouts last year, Texas’s bounty of wind power has been an easy target. Yet Texas counts on wind to meet only 10% of its winter capacity, according to the state’s grid manager. Natural gas and coal make up the lion’s share, comprising 82%. Sure, some wind turbines glitched under cold weather conditions, but so did natural gas- and coal-fired power. That is partly because water intake facilities froze for these generators, just as they did in the last extreme winter seen in February 2011. At least some natural gas had to be redirected for heating rather than power, adding to the supply shortage.
    Even the Republican governor, when trying to blame renewable energy for the issues, only claimed wind was around 10%. I'm not sure why there is such a wide discrepancy between the two numbers.
    “Leadership: Whatever happens, you’re responsible. If it doesn’t happen, you’re responsible.” -- Donald J. Trump, 2013

    "I don't take responsibility at all."
    -- Donald J. Trump, 2020

  18. #318
    Pandaren Monk wunksta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursus View Post
    It should be noted that while those numbers show wind as accounting for about 25% of power, apparently in the wintertime wind only accounts for 10% of Texas's power.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/dont-bl...es-11613500788



    Even the Republican governor, when trying to blame renewable energy for the issues, only claimed wind was around 10%. I'm not sure why there is such a wide discrepancy between the two numbers.
    Cool thanks for the clarification.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Ursus View Post
    It should be noted that while those numbers show wind as accounting for about 25% of power, apparently in the wintertime wind only accounts for 10% of Texas's power.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/dont-bl...es-11613500788



    Even the Republican governor, when trying to blame renewable energy for the issues, only claimed wind was around 10%. I'm not sure why there is such a wide discrepancy between the two numbers.
    The seasons. Spring is the windiest in TX, followed by Fall, then Winter and Summer. In that order. The percentage is misleading. Spring in Texas is when the weather is mild and the electricity demand is low. So in Spring, wind power is a bigger percentage of the overall power supply.

    The damage so far - over 1,000,000 homes with broken water lines.

    Houston branch of Roto-Rooter Plumbing and Water Clean Up have 1,300 jobs on backlog and growing.

    I think it's much bigger than people realize right now. Once the water is back on and flowing into pipes, the full extent of the damage will become apparent.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2021-02-18 at 10:49 PM.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Ursus View Post
    Even the Republican governor, when trying to blame renewable energy for the issues, only claimed wind was around 10%. I'm not sure why there is such a wide discrepancy between the two numbers.
    The guy who owns fox news bought the WSJ. He's running the name into the ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

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