Upcoming Changes to the Ashran, Isle of Conquest, and Wintergrasp Epic Battlegrounds

[Lumy]

Upcoming Changes to the Ashran, Isle of Conquest, and Wintergrasp Epic Battlegrounds

In next week’s Public Test Realm update, we’ll be making several adjustments to the Ashran, Isle of Conquest, and Wintergrasp epic battlegrounds.

Ashran

We’ve increased the player count again to make the battleground feel more epic. We also wanted to even out the Horde and Alliance sides of the map, especially at the start. The Tower Mages have had their difficulty lowered as they were a bit too impactful to the battleground. Additionally, we’ve reduced the cost to summon Fangraal and Kronus to help teams push the mid-lane more often.

• Maximum player count per faction is now 35 (was 30).
• Starting reinforcements are now 175 (was 150).
• To allow both factions to have easier access to Star Root Tubers and Song Flowers, both these tasty treats will now spawn alongside each other in the Dark Woods and Root Den.
• Artifact Fragment cost to summon Kronus and Fangraal reduced to 1500 (was 3000).
• Horde and Alliance tower mages are now worth 30 Reinforcements when slain (was 50).
• Horde and Alliance tower mages have had their spells adjusted:
  
  • Rylai Crestfall – Alliance Tower Mage
    
    • Northrend Winds now deals 15% of the target’s maximum health in Frost damage (was 200% Weapon damage).
    • Frostbolt now deals 8% of the target’s maximum health in Frost damage (was 100% Weapon damage).
    • Frostbolt Volley now deals 15% of the target’s maximum health in Frost damage (was 150% Weapon damage).
    • No longer casts Mass Polymorph.
  • Jeron Emberfall – Horde Tower Mage
    
    • Fireball now deals 8% of the target’s maximum health in Fire damage (was scaling damage).
    • Combustion Nova now deals 15% of the target’s maximum health in Fire damage (was scaling damage).
    • Ignite now deals 1% of the target’s maximum health in Fire damage (was scaling damage).
    • Living Bomb initial spell now deals 5% of the target’s maximum health in Fire damage (was scaling damage).
    • Living Bomb explosion now deals 15% of the target’s maximum health in Fire damage (was scaling damage).
    • Magma Blast cast by Jeron’s summoned Lava Fury now deals 5% of the target’s maximum health in Fire damage (was 200% Weapon damage).

Isle of Conquest

• These changes are intended to discourage base-rushing and have all control points be important, not just Hangar.
• Glaive Thrower health has been increased by 40%.
• Alliance and Horde Commander health increased by 50%.
• Demolisher health increased by 25%.
• Catapult health increased by 100%.
• The amount of siege damage required to break down keep walls has been increased by 20%.

Wintergrasp

• Wintergrasp has been very defense-favored, so we’ve made the following adjustments to even out both sides of the playing field.
• Broken Temple and Sunken Ring Workshops are now controlled by the attacking team when the battle starts.
• Wintergrasp Wall, Wintergrasp Fortress Wall, and Wintergrasp Fortress Gate health has been reduced by 20%.
• Destroying Towers reduces match time by 8 minutes (was 5 minutes).
• Siege Engine’s Steam Rush ability deals 20-35% of a player’s health (was 30-45%).
• Demolisher’s Hurl Boulder ability deals 20-25% of a player’s health (was 36%).
• After 5 minutes, all players in the battleground who do not have a rank (including players who join late) will now be granted the rank of Corporal.

Thank you for your feedback! If you get a chance to check out the changes on the PTR, please let us know what you think in the PTR General Discussion forum.

[MrPaladinGuy]

Glaive Thrower health has been increased by 40%

GG Alliance

[kiramon]

SHORTER epics, not longer,

[Railander]

Wintergrasp has been very defense-favored, so we’ve made the following adjustments to even out both sides of the playing field.

took them a while to figure it out. better late than never i guess.

[Nellise]

The problem with Jeron is the knockback from Living Bomb which pretty much sends everybody to their death. The Alliance mage has nothing similar. Hopefully that gets addressed too.

And at least they're finally making Wintergrasp changes. "After 5 minutes, all players in the battleground who do not have a rank (including players who join late) will now be granted the rank of Corporal." Should have been in from the start.

[Raugnaut]

So, Ashran changes.

Max player count 35 - Slight impact on how long key objectives such as Ogre, ect lasts. Less time then before, easier to defend.
175 reinforcements - Ashran is now a bit longer by ~3 minutes.
Flowers for everyone - TBH a big change, now lets see if the alliance will actually take advantage of it, or if they'll go lemming to their deaths in Woods.
We will still never, ever see Kronus or Fangraal. It needs to be down to 300 again to actually see them in the BG.
Another Reinforcement change. Mages are worth less. Mages are also harder and will require a healer. Horde mage is still harder then Alliance mage.

The biggest change overall is the Flower change, as this basically provided a 15% buff to Horde only. With that said, considering that the only time I've seen alliance do anything besides either lemming the Woods (Why do they even do that? It's basically going in to get killed without even getting 1 kill in return) or try (And almost always fail) to get Mage was when they went in and fully cleared the Ancient Inferno area - And they easily won that match.

Every other change is minor at best.

[Neotart]

So, Ashran changes.

Max player count 35 - Slight impact on how long key objectives such as Ogre, ect lasts. Less time then before, easier to defend.
175 reinforcements - Ashran is now a bit longer by ~3 minutes.
Flowers for everyone - TBH a big change, now lets see if the alliance will actually take advantage of it, or if they'll go lemming to their deaths in Woods.
We will still never, ever see Kronus or Fangraal. It needs to be down to 300 again to actually see them in the BG.
Another Reinforcement change. Mages are worth less. Mages are also harder and will require a healer. Horde mage is still harder then Alliance mage.

The biggest change overall is the Flower change, as this basically provided a 15% buff to Horde only. With that said, considering that the only time I've seen alliance do anything besides either lemming the Woods (Why do they even do that? It's basically going in to get killed without even getting 1 kill in return) or try (And almost always fail) to get Mage was when they went in and fully cleared the Ancient Inferno area - And they easily won that match.

Every other change is minor at best.

Ok, lets see what u would do to balance this all out, ill wait.

[Nephod]

Isle of Conquest
- These changes are intended to discourage base-rushing and have all control points be important, not just Hangar.

Hangar? 200 wins in this BG, and every win is rush docks, get glavies, defend glavies while they destroy closest side gate, rush boss and win. Never ever go Hangar :P

For the Horde!

[Strawberry]

So now docks are even more important to get.

[Raugnaut]

Ok, lets see what u would do to balance this all out, ill wait.

Ashran by it's very nature is unbalancable - It was originally a "FUN MODE ANYTHING GOES" where a single player could literally 1v10 or even 1v20 providing that they got the right buffs. However, by giving Flowers to both Horde AND Alliance at the start, it goes a good bit towards being balanced.

Blizzard doesn't want long BG games, which is why it's somewhat confusing as to why they've extended Ashran by roughly 6 minutes.

Overall though, here are a few additional changes I would make.

1: Remove the Solar Sphere mechanic. Not a single other BG has a similar mechanic, and the Solar Sphere has such a huge impact on the game given that it's basically a permanent bloodlust for whichever team. Mine's can instead become a "flanking" area in which one side or another can use to flank the opposing team.

2: Rework the Yu'lon, Stampede, and Frostwyrm powers. Upon acquiring one of these powers, it is both announced in the BG (Horde/Alliance has a charge of X), and players can no longer use it - Instead, it's used when the following happens.
Frostwyrm - Used whenever you capture a point close to the enemy's base.
Stampede - Used whenever you capture a point close to your base.
Yu'Lon - Used whenever you lose a point close to your base.
These 3 powers won't be 1 rush, but rather a periodic rush - 1 Stampede, Frostwyrm, or Yu'lon is sent out every 10 seconds for 30 seconds. This allows the team that owns it to reposition themselves at the next point, or even fully wipe and secure a point.
3: Remove the special buffs you can get from the "rare buff spawns" in all areas. The Panther area completely lacks any kind of buff, the Arrokoa area grants you up 3 "cheat death" effects taht stay with the side that got it (Another reason that engaging in the Woods is a spectacularily bad idea), and the Ogre buffs allow a tanky character to literally solo every rare around.

4: Remove the Ancient Artifact. It's a complete feels-bad mechanic because either A) You get bickering, squabbling, and possible even trolling (FUCK YALL OTHR SIDE GETS IT), or B) you just put a complete kill icon over someones head.

5: GREATLY increase the number of Manuals, Scrolls, and Wands you acquire from the Elite Rares. Essentially, everyone who loots an Elite Rare should get at least 1 of the 3, potentially even all 3. This puts "feel good" powers in the hands of players, as a Scroll or Wand used at the right time can easily secure an advantage.

6: Final change, upon capturing the enemies Tower location, you gain access to the middle GY to help with push.

Thus, the gameplan becomes a few simple steps.

Step 1: Head to your sides Flower area and pick flowers for a 15% stat buff that lasts the entire game. Kill the elite there for the first charge of power.
Step 2: Fight at Ogre. Utilize consumabls to give your side an advantage.
Step 3: Push with Ogre. Side that lost Ogre can attempt to capture another rare to depush.
Step 4: Upon reaching the Tower, the side with the advantage get's a further advantage to end the game and actually have a shot at killing the faction leader.

The end.

This

[Netherling]

The problem with Jeron is the knockback from Living Bomb which pretty much sends everybody to their death. The Alliance mage has nothing similar. Hopefully that gets addressed too.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I looked at these changes. Alliance mage's polymorph is removed, but Horde's knock back stays in?

[Aphrel]

"Starting reinforcements are now 175 (was 150)."
"The amount of siege damage required to break down keep walls has been increased by 20%."

If their aim was to make these bgs better, they missed the mark...

[BarosanuNr1]

WG changes: YAY!
IoC changes: Eh, at least the current stale meta might change.
Ashran changes: Bleah, more time spent in my least favorite epic BG. Now Ashran will replace "WG as attacker" as my instant-leave scenario.

[I]Isle of Conquest
Hangar? 200 wins in this BG, and every win is rush docks, get glavies, defend glavies while they destroy closest side gate, rush boss and win. Never ever go Hangar :P For the Horde!

From my experience as Horde, about 1-2 months ago Alliance always got to glaives first, but never defended them properly. Thus, a small team of hordies could take the hangar and nuke the allies' east gate for a very fast win, while everyone else killed the allies' glaives. However, in recent weeks this tactic has been less and less viable because allies started defending the hangar.

[Appelgren]

Lol! These changes will FOR SURE make epic bgs fun again!

[C20]

Some good changes, but they don't truly address some of the core issues.

Making the IoC bosses immune to pet taunt would help, but increasing the boss damage for each base the enemy controls would help as well. For example, if Horde is attacking the Alliance commander, but the Alliance controls (or manages to cap during the fight) Hangar and Workshop, increase the boss damage by 50% (or 20%, or some other figure that actually makes him more dangerous).

The Ashran changes should include "Jeron Emberfall's Living Bomb will no longer knockback players". Removing poly from Alliance, but not removing the knockback from Horde, is not going to fix the problem, and if anything, it'll make it worse.

Getting people to kill glaives in IoC when you don't control WS is almost impossible. Sometimes you can cap WS and do a mid-game defense, but people seem to have the mindset that you must take them to the enemy base and try to catch up, rather than destroying the glaives. My experience is that you'll get 1 or 2 people helping, but usually not enough to actually take them out, not with a whole bunch of people also defending them. Once in a while, a miracle happens and people do manage to kill them, but ultimately increasing their HP just further prevents attempts to do that.

The WG changes will certainly help, but the south towers are still going to be steamrolled. They need more HP. This would allow attackers to exploit a defense snowball that's pushing south, by allowing attackers a significant chance to push the fort. Defense still also get to both North workshops before attackers, so they will still ultimately manage to cap them, but it's good to see that there's been some attempt to remedy the situation.

Unlike some people who want epic BG's to be over as soon as possible, I actually enter them because I enjoy the experience they offer more than most other content in the game (even with the inbalances). If they were shorter, I wouldn't have a problem, just like I don't have a problem with a game running longer due to player actions (e.g. recapping in AV, holding at defense, etc). Premades don't (generally) happen like they do in regular BG's, and at least for me, the scale of them embodies what Warcraft PVP should be about. If WSG was scaled up in size, as well as player count, and made epic, I'd play that. If AB was scaled up in player count, and made epic, I'd also play that.

Sure, I play them to upgrade my gear, but I choose to play them over other content because I enjoy what they offer. I enjoy formulating tactics on how to counter the current BG situation more than I enjoy running up against a meatgrinder. Too often, people just ignore my advice, even though I've considered the effects it will have on the enemy as well as on ourselves.

As an example, one of the first things I do on my Druid in AV is Tiger Rush + Vortex + AoE roots + silence on the enemies running across the field, before they can get towards our tower/bunker. I also do the same in IoC at the initial docks rush, and it's often enough to stop the enemy team from interrupting the flag cap. In AV, I'll often recall just so that I can try to defend from either the bridge as Alliance, or recap our base towers/bunkers, but I've found that most people don't even seem to be aware of the toy that allows them to do the recall.

Ashran is an exception, and every time that pops up, I take a good few moments to decide if I should just leave. I usually don't, as I can often pull off the same AoE roots + vortex tactic at the center flag to help our team gain the confidence to start a heavy push.

The problem with Jeron is the knockback from Living Bomb which pretty much sends everybody to their death. The Alliance mage has nothing similar. Hopefully that gets addressed too.

And at least they're finally making Wintergrasp changes. "After 5 minutes, all players in the battleground who do not have a rank (including players who join late) will now be granted the rank of Corporal." Should have been in from the start.

On the former point, I absolutely agree. They removed the mass polymorph from the Alliance mage, but didn't remove the knockback from the Horde mage. It's kinda like spitting in the face of the Alliance. Diverting resources as Horde is easier than it is for Alliance. Maybe the reduction in reinforcement being offered by killing it will deter people fighting the mages.

On the latter point, I also absolutely agree. This helps both factions. When defending, even though I've got an easier job, I have very little motivation to leave the cannon, except to grab a new RPGG in case I've already used the one I got at the start. This should at least encourage me to get a vehicle. As an attacker, this only makes a difference if I'm clearing base cannons.

Isle of Conquest
- These changes are intended to discourage base-rushing and have all control points be important, not just Hangar.

Hangar? 200 wins in this BG, and every win is rush docks, get glavies, defend glavies while they destroy closest side gate, rush boss and win. Never ever go Hangar :P

For the Horde!

I've got almost exactly the same experience in most of my wins. The counter to the glaives was capping WS, and using demos to defend against the glaive rush. Failing that, and you've lost the BG, as organising people to kill the glaives (that will be on steroids with these changes) is nigh-impossible. Increasing their HP is just going to further reinforce that docks is where you absolutely need to cap.

Implying Hangar is the most important base is either a typo, or Blizzard are really out of tune with IoC.

[ThiagoTorres]

Maximum player count per faction is now 35 (was 30).

Now my pc will blow lmao

[Huntermyth]

they clarly have no idea about IoC...

it is the DOCKS that matters. not even the docks for god's sake, only thing that matters in this bg is GLAIVE THROWER. outranges defense turrets AND hits harder than demos. make demolishers on par with throwers and tada, problem solved. yet they LOOK like they are trying to solve a problem but miss the mark by miles. again, at ashran. as a horde player, it is unfair that horde mage has knockback but rylai just begs to be killed by 4 max. and they removed her mass poly spell...

i mean, come on man...

[Teph]

90% of the IOC i have played were won by the docks and they even buff it. wat?

[Pakheth]

Yeah I don't understand that Glaive buff. Get docks = guaranteed win in almost every case. The number of times I have won an IoC when the opposing team had glaives can be counted on one hand and felt more like pure luck than anything else.

[Isaelyn]

took them a while to figure it out. better late than never i guess.

Took them long enough but I feel like these wintergrasp changes will just make it even easier for defense to win. Starting with sunken ring and broken temple does nothing if offense doesn't also start with vehicles. Then demos and seige engines, which are mostly an offense thing anyway, do even less damage to players which hurts offense more. In addition to that destroying towers knocks more time off, putting more pressure on offense to win quicker but the wall health was only reduced by 20% and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen wall health even drop below 80% since WG became a BG.

So if anything imo all these changes are going to mean is that defense still wins 95% of the time but you're not waiting as long for the slaughter to end.