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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Okay, the Night Elves in Teldrassil got moved to Ardenweald

    that's all cool and dandy and all but, what about the Furbolgs, Gilneans, Draenei, Void Elves, Highborne, Keepers of the Grove, Dryads, and probably some others who burned in Teldrassil, and as well as those who died in Astranaar, Silverwing Refuge, Auberdine, and Lor'danel. Did they also get to be in Ardenweald too or did Tyrande forget about them?

    edit: added Draenei in
    Last edited by Ardenaso; 2021-02-19 at 03:54 PM.
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  2. #2
    Ask yourself instead - does Arbiter designate every soul, by which I mean animals, magical beings, critters etc. as well? I'm not entirely sure, so I'll just say Furbolgs/Keepers of the Grove/Dryads do not work in the same way in hopes of someone correcting me.

    When it comes to Gilneans, High Elves, Void Elves, Highborne - of course, all visitors who did not get out in time also burned, but compared to the main population - Night Elves - they're such a small fraction that including them in the 60 spirits you rescue from Torghast would be a bit weird.

    Especially High Elves and Void Elves. The latter do not even live in Darnassus, but reside in Stormwind / Telogrus Rift, right? Highborne however are already Night Elves, so they're included in that.

    And all of this is assuming you're forgetting Tyrande is saying 'For Teldrassil' specifically, not 'For the Night Elves that burned at Teldrassil'. She's not forgetting them. Just the overwhelming majority of souls that we rescue are Night Elven, most of the visual depiction will also be Night Elven. I think you've kind of misunderstood how The Maw/Ardenweald work and what happened.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    Ask yourself instead - does Arbiter designate every soul, by which I mean animals, magical beings, critters etc. as well? I'm not entirely sure, so I'll just say Furbolgs/Keepers of the Grove/Dryads do not work in the same way in hopes of someone correcting me.

    When it comes to Gilneans, High Elves, Void Elves, Highborne - of course, all visitors who did not get out in time also burned, but compared to the main population - Night Elves - they're such a small fraction that including them in the 60 spirits you rescue from Torghast would be a bit weird.

    Especially High Elves and Void Elves. The latter do not even live in Darnassus, but reside in Stormwind / Telogrus Rift, right? Highborne however are already Night Elves, so they're included in that.

    And all of this is assuming you're forgetting Tyrande is saying 'For Teldrassil' specifically, not 'For the Night Elves that burned at Teldrassil'. She's not forgetting them. Just the overwhelming majority of souls that we rescue are Night Elven, most of the visual depiction will also be Night Elven. I think you've kind of misunderstood how The Maw/Ardenweald work and what happened.
    there were non-Night Elves who lived in Teldrassil; I could've sworn I also saw some Rift Wardens in Darnassus and at least one High Elf NPC there and then some other races; but I guess I should edit out the High Elf with Draenei instead; the Maw questline only showed Night Elves, none others

    - - - Updated - - -

    also Furbolgs are intelligent creatures and they should be on the same rank just like Tauren
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    that's all cool and dandy and all but, what about the Furbolgs, Gilneans, Draenei, Void Elves, Highborne, Keepers of the Grove, Dryads, and probably some others who burned in Teldrassil, and as well as those who died in Astranaar, Silverwing Refuge, Auberdine, and Lor'danel. Did they also get to be in Ardenweald too or did Tyrande forget about them?

    edit: added Draenei in
    Frankly, i'm surprised we even got this much continuation to the events surrounding Teldrassil, so that they glossed over... well, a lot of the details along the way is just Blizz being Blizz, really...

    And also to put it into perspective, it's something you see for all of two minutes in all, so it's not really a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    Ask yourself instead - does Arbiter designate every soul, by which I mean animals, magical beings, critters etc. as well? I'm not entirely sure, so I'll just say Furbolgs/Keepers of the Grove/Dryads do not work in the same way in hopes of someone correcting me.
    Ursoc was a bear and ended up in Ardenweald, dunno if he passed by the Arbiter too but maybe all nature/beastly beings are defaulted to AW, maybe not even only beasts just any being close to nature.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    that's all cool and dandy and all but, what about the Furbolgs, Gilneans, Draenei, Void Elves, Highborne, Keepers of the Grove, Dryads, and probably some others who burned in Teldrassil, and as well as those who died in Astranaar, Silverwing Refuge, Auberdine, and Lor'danel. Did they also get to be in Ardenweald too or did Tyrande forget about them?

    edit: added Draenei in
    Don't know about critters. But i am pretty sure sentient races all go to the maw right now. The part we are concert right now are just the Nightelves becuase that is what Tyrande is concerned with.
    Doesn't mean the rest are not there or that they don't care about them.

    It is the good old just because you are focusing on problem a doesn't mean you are ignoring or do not care about problem b.

    Same in politics e.g. Just because one law gets attention doesn't mean the government only works on that one bill right now.

    Blizz can't put everything in there. Just think about how many people died alone in BfA? They are all in the maw. And in Thorgast we actually DO save other races to. Just mostly player races for gameplay reasons and you can't fit a dryad int he cages. The other spirits are... formless humanoid. So they could be anything.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    that's all cool and dandy and all but, what about the Furbolgs, Gilneans, Draenei, Void Elves, Highborne, Keepers of the Grove, Dryads, and probably some others who burned in Teldrassil, and as well as those who died in Astranaar, Silverwing Refuge, Auberdine, and Lor'danel. Did they also get to be in Ardenweald too or did Tyrande forget about them?

    edit: added Draenei in
    Kyrian have a world quest associated with the anima conductor that you choose whether to ferry a soul into the shadowlands or send them back. One of the souls is a night elf on fire from teldressil(send to shadowlands), one is a dryad(send to shadowlands), one is a corgi (send to shadowlands). Things that don't get sent are demon, naaru, people who hear the call of the valkyr, etc.

    Hopefully this answers the question, that yes, the keepers/dryads/etc get sent to somewhere in the shadowlands (including animals)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    there were non-Night Elves who lived in Teldrassil; I could've sworn I also saw some Rift Wardens in Darnassus and at least one High Elf NPC there and then some other races; but I guess I should edit out the High Elf with Draenei instead; the Maw questline only showed Night Elves, none others

    also Furbolgs are intelligent creatures and they should be on the same rank just like Tauren
    Rift Wardens are visitors, just like any other Allied Race people. Draenei aren't a good fit either because they're on Azuremyst/Bloodmyst and were sheltering the refugees from Teldrassil. Furbolgs are pseudo-intelligent, they're still much more simple-minded.

    Quote Originally Posted by valax View Post
    Ursoc was a bear and ended up in Ardenweald, dunno if he passed by the Arbiter too but maybe all nature/beastly beings are defaulted to AW, maybe not even only beasts just any being close to nature.
    Ursoc is different as he is a Wild God. I don't think they pass the Arbiter's judgment. If I recall correctly, Wild Gods or other powerful deities upon death go to Ardenweald, and then to Emerald Dream as afterlife and reincarnation.

    Animal souls go to Emerald Dream directly, if I'm not mistaken, e.g. G'Hanir and all avian creatures. More or less what I meant with Arbiter's judgment - they aren't going to Shadowlands.

    However, poster above says Kyrians have a world quest that is pretty interesting. I suppose Dryads/Keepers would then travel to Shadowlands as well. The part about corgi is a bit odd though, perhaps it's contradicting some lore. @Zaxvriin can you name the world quest?

  9. #9
    Only a portion of the night elf souls get to go to Ardenweald so far, as for the rest everything went to the maw.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Don't know about critters. But i am pretty sure sentient races all go to the maw right now. The part we are concert right now are just the Nightelves becuase that is what Tyrande is concerned with.
    Doesn't mean the rest are not there or that they don't care about them.

    It is the good old just because you are focusing on problem a doesn't mean you are ignoring or do not care about problem b.

    Same in politics e.g. Just because one law gets attention doesn't mean the government only works on that one bill right now.

    Blizz can't put everything in there. Just think about how many people died alone in BfA? They are all in the maw. And in Thorgast we actually DO save other races to. Just mostly player races for gameplay reasons and you can't fit a dryad int he cages. The other spirits are... formless humanoid. So they could be anything.
    I was thinking like, why not at least one Furbolg, one Worgen, and one Human to represent them
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    Ask yourself instead - does Arbiter designate every soul, by which I mean animals, magical beings, critters etc. as well? I'm not entirely sure, so I'll just say Furbolgs/Keepers of the Grove/Dryads do not work in the same way in hopes of someone correcting me.
    I mean, in the Kyrian world quest you judge the soul of a corgi and it's said it has a place in the shadowlands. If it's important enough to get the Kyrians to care, then most probably the soul will be judged by the arbiter as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Only a portion of the night elf souls get to go to Ardenweald so far, as for the rest everything went to the maw.
    We save them from the Maw and Torghast in the Ardenweald campaign. While probably not everyone is shown in game, I think canonically most of them have been saved by now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I was thinking like, why not at least one Furbolg, one Worgen, and one Human to represent them
    Who's to say what species a soul belongs to? Most souls in the maw are very generic, even most Night Elf souls we rescue.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2021-02-20 at 10:51 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    that's all cool and dandy and all but, what about the Furbolgs, Gilneans, Draenei, Void Elves, Highborne, Keepers of the Grove, Dryads, and probably some others who burned in Teldrassil, and as well as those who died in Astranaar, Silverwing Refuge, Auberdine, and Lor'danel. Did they also get to be in Ardenweald too or did Tyrande forget about them?

    edit: added Draenei in
    All of them got sent to the Maw since the burning of Teldrassil happened after the Arbiter went defunct. That includes the Night Elves.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    that's all cool and dandy and all but, what about the Furbolgs, Gilneans, Draenei, Void Elves, Highborne, Keepers of the Grove, Dryads, and probably some others who burned in Teldrassil, and as well as those who died in Astranaar, Silverwing Refuge, Auberdine, and Lor'danel. Did they also get to be in Ardenweald too or did Tyrande forget about them?

    edit: added Draenei in
    Ferryn and Anaris did not die on Teldrassil. Ferryn was decapitated by Saurfang as the Horde marched through Ashenvale and Anaris was ambushed by rogues before the main conflict began. Both of these soul are brought by you to the Ardenweald, so your point that we save only night elves who burned on Teldrassil is not entirely accurate.

    As for the souls we rescued - I guess they chose some not entirel random characters who we were familar with, either from story of Good War/Elegy, or were notorious NPCS from the game (like the very first night elf NPC you encounter after you create your night elf character). Sure, it would be nice if we saved even some other races who were present on Teldrassil, it would be nice touch, but I guess Blizz decided to focus mostly on night elves, since they were most affected by the Burning.

    I also wonder, since I haven't played Ardenweald on Horde side, how these characters react to you if you are Horde? They seem to be mostly friendly towards Alliance, so I wonder if there is any difference? Especially Anaris' quote is definitely anti-Horde:

    "The war exacted a terrible toll on our people. More so than anyone else.
    It cannot go unanswered.
    I hope that you will stand with us when we finally have our vengeance."


    Any Horde night fae here to confirm?

  14. #14
    A better question is who are we, Ysera or Winter Queen to decide the fate of those souls? Maybe their soul deserved to be in another realm? Maybe some of them were pretty bad and should be placed in Revendreth? And more importantly, why are these souls more deserving of saving than the other?

    I hate how Ardenweald became "Azeroth denizens and their Fae friends". Ysera liked Night Elves in her life so she decided "let's break the Shadowlands eco-system and just brute force the souls into Ardenweald". Because why not. But to not be too merciful, we're going to go past countless other souls and leave them to suffer. Why not.

    So now Heart of the Grove is full of Night Elven souls, Night Fae are becoming less and less relevant and Ardenweald is slowly turning into Teldrassil 2.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    I also wonder, since I haven't played Ardenweald on Horde side, how these characters react to you if you are Horde? They seem to be mostly friendly towards Alliance, so I wonder if there is any difference? Especially Anaris' quote is definitely anti-Horde:

    "The war exacted a terrible toll on our people. More so than anyone else.
    It cannot go unanswered.
    I hope that you will stand with us when we finally have our vengeance."


    Any Horde night fae here to confirm?
    Here's some quotes:

    Anaris:
    "I acknowledge that you saved me from that terrible, dark place. And I am grateful. But I cannot forget the suffering that the Horde inflicted on my people. Justice must still be served."

    Ilthalaine:
    "For so long I helped guide young, ambitious elves to find their path. Now I am at the beginning of my own adventure. I wonder, is this how they felt, stepping into a new grove for the first time"?

    Ferryn:"
    Thank you for bringing me back. If you're planning to return to the Maw, could you keep an eye out for someone? Her name is Delaryn."

    Astarii Starseeker:
    "Hatred is what started this. But I hope that it ends in justice, after all."

    Jandria:
    "Elune has not forgotten us. You, saving us, is proof of that. I wonder if there is still a part for us to play, a duty to fulfill. We must be patient."

    Denalan:
    "Have you ever seen such a glorious forest? The trees! Thank you for getting me out of that awful place, so that I could see it with my own eyes."

    From my point of view, Anaris and Astarii should not be placed in Ardenweald. There's still a desire for vengeance running deep inside them. The other elven souls seem have made peace with their past, but not those two. I wouldnt even mind if they were responsible for the Winter Queens fall (similar to the Archons') just for the sweet realization that, because they are elves and lived on a tree, doesn't mean their purpose automatically becomes ending up in Ardenweald.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TickTickTick View Post
    A better question is who are we, Ysera or Winter Queen to decide the fate of those souls? Maybe their soul deserved to be in another realm? Maybe some of them were pretty bad and should be placed in Revendreth? And more importantly, why are these souls more deserving of saving than the other?

    I hate how Ardenweald became "Azeroth denizens and their Fae friends". Ysera liked Night Elves in her life so she decided "let's break the Shadowlands eco-system and just brute force the souls into Ardenweald". Because why not. But to not be too merciful, we're going to go past countless other souls and leave them to suffer. Why not.

    So now Heart of the Grove is full of Night Elven souls, Night Fae are becoming less and less relevant and Ardenweald is slowly turning into Teldrassil 2.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Here's some quotes:

    Anaris:
    "I acknowledge that you saved me from that terrible, dark place. And I am grateful. But I cannot forget the suffering that the Horde inflicted on my people. Justice must still be served."

    Ilthalaine:
    "For so long I helped guide young, ambitious elves to find their path. Now I am at the beginning of my own adventure. I wonder, is this how they felt, stepping into a new grove for the first time"?

    Ferryn:"
    Thank you for bringing me back. If you're planning to return to the Maw, could you keep an eye out for someone? Her name is Delaryn."

    Astarii Starseeker:
    "Hatred is what started this. But I hope that it ends in justice, after all."

    Jandria:
    "Elune has not forgotten us. You, saving us, is proof of that. I wonder if there is still a part for us to play, a duty to fulfill. We must be patient."

    Denalan:
    "Have you ever seen such a glorious forest? The trees! Thank you for getting me out of that awful place, so that I could see it with my own eyes."

    From my point of view, Anaris and Astarii should not be placed in Ardenweald. There's still a desire for vengeance running deep inside them. The other elven souls seem have made peace with their past, but not those two. I wouldnt even mind if they were responsible for the Winter Queens fall (similar to the Archons') just for the sweet realization that, because they are elves and lived on a tree, doesn't mean their purpose automatically becomes ending up in Ardenweald.
    Thanks! As you mentioned, Anaris and Astari are the only one whose quotes differs and who wants justice for what's been done, which I don't think is a bad thing, I actually like it. Now I'm curious if we ever get to see POV of kaldorei dark rangers risen in BfA... it all seem they were actually tricked a bit by Sylvanas, so I wonder what is their status as well.

    Since we are the one who brought them here from the Maw and they were not judged by the Arbiter, it is likely they might not belong to the Ardenweald actually. As you say, being a night elf soul does not really mean they have to go to afterlife connected to the nature. Sentinels and priestesses could very well fit into the Bastion, since these roles are defined by their service to the community, whis is something more crucial to the Bastion. In this case, we brought them to the Ardenweald because Ysera still cares about kaldorei and does not wish their souls to suffer in the Maw.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    All of them got sent to the Maw since the burning of Teldrassil happened after the Arbiter went defunct. That includes the Night Elves.
    I mean those in Torghast whom the PC and Shandris freed
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  17. #17
    Question, if Night Elves go to Ardenweald then WTF are Wisps?

  18. #18
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Question, if Night Elves go to Ardenweald then WTF are Wisps?
    Night Elven spirits who apparently were given leave or judged by the Arbiter to remain on Azeroth, tending its groves from Azeroth's reflection in the Shadowlands. Or whose connection to Azeroth was so strong that they simply remained here and were never taken by a Bearer to Oribos in the first place.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Night Elven spirits who apparently were given leave or judged by the Arbiter to remain on Azeroth, tending its groves from Azeroth's reflection in the Shadowlands. Or whose connection to Azeroth was so strong that they simply remained here and were never taken by a Bearer to Oribos in the first place.
    Which is only you guessing it because Blizzard didn't feel like explainations are needed after they retconned so much of the afterlife or outright flipped it 180 with Shadowlands. First part of your first sentence doesnt even make sense tbh. When you die, you go to the Shadowlands. It's a forever done thing and Arbiter isn't some master of life and death to decide to just send someone back to their world. Especially since it's only one race.

    No. There are far more examples of new Shadowlands lore conflicting what we've seen so far (lingering spirits, undead still having their souls, implication that there's always enough Ascended Kyrian to fetch souls from countless worlds, communicating with dead etc) and Blizzard wasnt bothered to explain any of it or connect the dots somehow. And tbh seeing how they ruined the Dream, maybe for the better.

    Therefore:

    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Question, if Night Elves go to Ardenweald then WTF are Wisps?
    I wouldn't look into that. It's a dead end and the only explaination is "Blizzard wanted the Shadowlands story to be this and not that and who cares about previous lore".

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I mean those in Torghast whom the PC and Shandris freed
    We just took everything that happened to be in that room. Not our fault the Jailer sorted them by species for some reason.

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