Arthas did Nothing Wrong

[KSM899]

After seeing the latest patch cinematic, is Anduin responsible of what he did in it? if no, then the same goes for Arthas as he was under the Jailer influence all along.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Anduin is being directly mind-controlled. Arthas burned a city, killed allied mercenaries, doomed his soldiers to die, and this is before touching Frostmourne. Afterwards, he was never controlled, only lead. His emoted were sapped but he still had free will. He chose to kill his father and destroy his kingdom.

[Maljinwo]

Like Peabrocks said, everything immoral he did before picking up Frostmourne was his own doing

[Raetary]

Arthas was not getting puppeteered by the Jailer.

[Unholyground]

Anduin is being directly mind-controlled. Arthas burned a city, killed allied mercenaries, doomed his soldiers to die, and this is before touching Frostmourne. Afterwards, he was never controlled, only lead. His emoted were sapped but he still had free will. He chose to kill his father and destroy his kingdom.

To be 100% Fair though he definitely did slow the spread plague considerably.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

After seeing the latest patch cinematic, is Anduin responsible of what he did in it? if no, then the same goes for Arthas as he was under the Jailer influence all along.

Did you even play Warcraft 3? Have you kept up with the lore from in-game and in side pieces (Chronicles, for example) since WotLK?


You would not have posted this thread if you have, and I'll have to question your true intent with posting this thread if you have.

[huth]

To be 100% Fair though he definitely did slow the spread plague considerably.

I disagree. His actions ultimately sped things up considerably even if he temporarily slowed it down at first.

[Kokolums]

After seeing the latest patch cinematic, is Anduin responsible of what he did in it? if no, then the same goes for Arthas as he was under the Jailer influence all along.

In the original story, Arthas was not under the jailer influence all along.

But they can absolutely rewrite the story to make it true, and then redeem Arthas.

[McNeil]

Arthas was being corrupted by making advantage of his emotions rather than using magic, kinda like how Anakin got corrupted by Palpatine. He still had noble intentions but things got dark rather quick for him the more that he was moving towards Mal'Ganis. When he picked up Frostmourne it was then where he lost his soul and became a puppet of the Lich King (who is now apparently a puppet of the Jailor..). The way Anduin got turned is more similiar like how Arthas tried to turn Bolvar in ICC.

As for Arthas having done nothing wrong, I'd say he was right that Stratholme had to be purged (better die just die a swift and clean death rather than turn into a zombie and kill your loved ones), but he was wrong the moment that he wanted to chase Mal'Ganis. Medivh even mentioned to Arthas that this fate would lead to him, but ofcourse he was to stubborn to listen (which I don't exactly blame him for either, Medivh should learn not to come over as a madmen).

[Eapoe]

Arthas wiped out his home town, betrayed his own army, and turned his back on his friends and confidants before he ever even found Frostmourne.
He basically corrupted his own soul to allow the Jailer easier manipulation AFTER he found the sword and helm.
Anduin was taken by force, hence why you can see him have moments of coming to his senses in the cinematic.
So no, there is no retcon for Arthas being completely under the Jailer’s influence, and if Blizzard tries to retcon it that way would mean they really are awful at storytelling. Now, while they may not be masterful articulators of the written word, they can actually tell an overall story decently well.

[Dellis0991]

After seeing the latest patch cinematic, is Anduin responsible of what he did in it? if no, then the same goes for Arthas as he was under the Jailer influence all along.

Arthas wasn't forced....he did all that shit willingly.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Setting aside the issue of Arthas' crimes before he took up Frostmourne, Arthas and Anduin seem to react differently to the Jailer's influence. Anduin seems to be able to temporarily break free, looking for a moment like Arthas did as he died asking his father if it was "finally over," but he never actually speaks in the Kingsmourne cutscene, it's just the Jailer speaking through him. Zovaal describes him as a "vessel," he's little more than a puppet, while Arthas never seemed that way. He spoke of his own experiences, acknowledged his past, and still sought to protect his people and his kingdom in his own twisted way, raising them as an eternal army. This implies to me that he still had some agency even while dominated.

[Unholyground]

I disagree. His actions ultimately sped things up considerably even if he temporarily slowed it down at first.

Maybe, we may never know.

- - - Updated - - -

Setting aside the issue of Arthas' crimes before he took up Frostmourne, Arthas and Anduin seem to react differently to the Jailer's influence. Anduin seems to be able to temporarily break free, looking for a moment like Arthas did as he died asking his father if it was "finally over," but he never actually speaks in the Kingsmourne cutscene, it's just the Jailer speaking through him. Zovaal describes him as a "vessel," he's little more than a puppet, while Arthas never seemed that way. He spoke of his own experiences, acknowledged his past, and still sought to protect his people and his kingdom in his own twisted way, raising them as an eternal army. This implies to me that he still had some agency even while dominated.

Nerzy was in there too and the dominant force in the helm over Arthas as well, he took a backseat.

[Adramalech]

In that short quest in Oribos when Bolvar gets chained by the Jailer, he mentions Bolvar being a failure like those before him. So wouldn't that mean Arthas did whatever the fuck he wanted instead of being the Jailer's herald or whatever?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Nerzy was in there too and the dominant force in the helm over Arthas as well, he took a backseat.

Blizzard hate Ner'zhul, they've been downplaying him as much as possible since Wrath. The plot of Shadowlands is the next step in that plan, removing even more of his agency in Arthas' story by making the main driving force the Jailer.

[Nnyco]

Except arthas did most of his shit before he even had frostmourne.

[Arikara]

See, the reason this new Anduin Lich King nonsense falls flat is because it is basically just mind control. There is honestly no reason whatsoever that Anduin is the one who has to become the 'new Lich King', they might as well have picked some random no-name NPC ("oh no, but he's a super powerful wielder of the light, it has to be him!" aaand that's bad writing). At least giving the role to Sylvanas would've made sense, as eye-rolly as that would have been.

Arthas earned his fall from grace with atrocities in his quest for vengeance. Anduin did nothing of the sort, did not make personal choices that led to him being in that situation, and has had no character involvement in this entire atrocious arc. He is nothing but living proof of how far Blizzard's writers have fallen.

[Sorrowseer]

I side with Arthas, I hate uther, thread I guess.

[Skandulous]

Blizzard hate Ner'zhul, they've been downplaying him as much as possible since Wrath. The plot of Shadowlands is the next step in that plan, removing even more of his agency in Arthas' story by making the main driving force the Jailer.

yea he will be retconned out sooner or later. Originally the Helm of domination and sword were to keep him under control for the dreadlords. Then he found Arthas to take the blade and help him out by killing the dreadlords for what they did to him.

[MikeBogina]

DK Arthas was under Ner'zhul's control, who was not under anyone's control.
Lich King Arthas is basically DK Arthas with free will but also somewhat of a new character as he has memories of Ner'zhul mixed in.

Neither Scourge version of Arthas was actually Arthas, but neither was he a pawn of the Jailer, or else he would have helped the Jailer instead of trying to protect Azeroth in his own twisted way.

Also what Anduin is guilty of... is literally stealing everything that made Arthas... Arthas. Not only did they make him look like Arthas this patch, they also gave him Arthas' scaled leggings if it wasn't too obvious already that they're just making him an Arthas2.0 because they dont want to give us Arthas.