Convincing Anduin

[KainneAbsolute]

Danuser said in today's Q&A; the Anduin was needed to get an audience with the Archon (and obviously, getting the key).

Did Sylvanas really believe she was able to convince Anduin to attack the Archon? Or the plan was to convince Anduin and then to convince the Firsbone to bring suicide? Obviously, this is not the case. How Anduin left the Kyrian territory without any harm?

I am also amazed the Kyrian are so adamant about receiving a soul like Uther, but if it is a living good human king that was trapped...they low their defenses a lot...

Sylvanas seems quite naive in the story: not noticing the Jailer created Arthas, no realizing that she is another pawn, and now with Anduin.

I hope Blizzard brings a world-changing reason for "convincing: arguments of the Jailer.

TL;DR: Sylvanas wanted Anduin to collaborate voluntarily. There was NO way to convince Anduin to attack the Archon. The only way was the Jailer to control him.

[cocomen2]

Sylvanas seems quite naive in the story: not noticing the Jailer created Arthas, no realizing that she is another pawn, and now with Anduin.

Why do you think she don't knows a thing? i bet her plan just to ruin Shadowlands as cursed afterlife labor place.

( as bonus she can kill Arthas for good, why let him live in shadowlands ... if you can go there and burn his ass)

Convincing part like "Dear Anduin, can you be a vessel for Arthas so i can end his puny life , but don't tell a thing to Jailer or he gonna be upset"

[Hobbidaggy]

Archon isn’t dead. Was confirmed in an interview that the raising of her hand after she was stabbed was their indication she survived the extraction of the key with the mourne blade

[KainneAbsolute]

Archon isn’t dead. Was confirmed in an interview that the raising of her hand after she was stabbed was their indication she survived the extraction of the key with the mourne blade

Yeah, I corrected it. I still think that Anduin would not be convinced to attack the Archon

[Dellis0991]

Yeah, I corrected it. I still think that Anduin would not be convinced to attack the Archon

He wasn't convinced....wasn't even in control of his body. Did you not hear Zovaal speaking through him? Not only that he was literally moving like puppet and the look on his face when he stabbed the Archon said it all. He didn't do any of that willingly.

[KainneAbsolute]

He wasn't convinced....wasn't even in control of his body. Did you not hear Zovaal speaking through him? Not only that he was literally moving like puppet and the look on his face when he stabbed the Archon said it all. He didn't do any of that willingly.

What I mean is: Sylvanas wanted him to collaborate. For me, there was no situation where Anduin was going to collaborate with her. The only path was being controlled by Jailer. All the talk of Sylvanas with Anduin was for nothing.

[Jastall]

What I mean is: Sylvanas wanted him to collaborate. For me, there was no situation where Anduin was going to collaborate with her. The only path was being controlled by Jailer. All the talk of Sylvanas with Anduin was for nothing.

Yeah, that plot point makes all of Sylvanas's efforts to convert Anduin to her side (never mind the find that she shouldn't even begin to care about him or his opinion but whatever) seem ridiculous. How could she possibly believe that she could convince Anduin of all people to go and assault/assassinate a powerful being dedicated to keeping order in the Shadowlands for some nebulous greater good that is very, very hard to see behind the fact that she serves mega-Satan, the kind of guy who has a massive tower filled with eternally tortured souls and outfits his minions with armor that has skulls on their kneecaps.

Basically for me all of BfA and Shadowlands have done nothing but show that Sylvanas is one of the most idiotic persons in the entire Warcraft mythos. That's the only way I can even make sense of her character anymore. She's just legitimately a moron and that would explain more or less everything.

[hulkgor]

Yeah, I corrected it. I still think that Anduin would not be convinced to attack the Archon

Same dude said that Anduin was not in control of his actions, more like being 'posessed' by the Jailer. That's why the Archon even said "You...." (recognizing the Jailer) in her interaction with Anduin.

[Dellis0991]

What I mean is: Sylvanas wanted him to collaborate. For me, there was no situation where Anduin was going to collaborate with her. The only path was being controlled by Jailer. All the talk of Sylvanas with Anduin was for nothing.

She know that she is being played but she doesn't want to believe that. She already knew that Zovaal involvement with the lich king, she knew that when she swan dived off of ICC. The kyrian lowered their guard because Anduin was alive and they know that pretty much all the beings alive in the shadowland are mostly adventures trying to help and he escaped easily because everybody in the area was locked down by chains and he probably got help by baldy's minions. We probably gonna know more about his plans in the future and of course none of his arguements are convincing to a rational person but Sylvanas isn't rational or caring.

[Minikin]

Yeah, I corrected it. I still think that Anduin would not be convinced to attack the Archon

well. given how kyrians are quite literraly dumb as rocks. and how linear they are, there was a sliver of a chance that maybe hell be like "yea these idiots are part of the problem and need to go down".

the issue however is that Anduin himself is very light oriented and thus wouldnt want to play in these shades of grey.

And so we are where we currently are.

- - - Updated - - -

Danuser said in today's Q&A; the Anduin was needed to get an audience with the Archon (and obviously, getting the key).

Did Sylvanas really believe she was able to convince Anduin to attack the Archon? Or the plan was to convince Anduin and then to convince the Firsbone to bring suicide? Obviously, this is not the case. How Anduin left the Kyrian territory without any harm?

I am also amazed the Kyrian are so adamant about receiving a soul like Uther, but if it is a living good human king that was trapped...they low their defenses a lot...

Sylvanas seems quite naive in the story: not noticing the Jailer created Arthas, no realizing that she is another pawn, and now with Anduin.

I hope Blizzard brings a world-changing reason for "convincing: arguments of the Jailer.

she is.

the people who followed her, she sent to the maw.
the people who didnt follow her, she sent those to the maw.

kelthuzad is serving the same guy she is serving.
Arthas was created by the guy she is serving.

Literally every suffering her people and her own person have encountered is due to her current boss.

Yet here she is.

[KSM899]

She was convincing him to join their cause willingly and accept the power of Death.
Killing the Arcon was the following step.

[Kallisto]

Danuser said in today's Q&A; the Anduin was needed to get an audience with the Archon (and obviously, getting the key).

Did Sylvanas really believe she was able to convince Anduin to attack the Archon? Or the plan was to convince Anduin and then to convince the Firsbone to bring suicide? Obviously, this is not the case. How Anduin left the Kyrian territory without any harm?

I am also amazed the Kyrian are so adamant about receiving a soul like Uther, but if it is a living good human king that was trapped...they low their defenses a lot...

Sylvanas seems quite naive in the story: not noticing the Jailer created Arthas, no realizing that she is another pawn, and now with Anduin.

I hope Blizzard brings a world-changing reason for "convincing: arguments of the Jailer.

TL;DR: Sylvanas wanted Anduin to collaborate voluntarily. There was NO way to convince Anduin to attack the Archon. The only way was the Jailer to control him.

I disagree with her naive part. Upto and including legion she seemed to still be trying to keep herself (and for likely selfish reason others) far away from Jailer grasp. Not wanting to die and go to the maw, raising anyone she could but with free will would guarantee they would head there and also keep herself from going there.

Her fear of being claimed during the Voljin death scene, her not wanting to leave Varian to his fate at broken shore and then trying to make more val'kir via the lantern so more undead can remain in tact.

Her own thoughts in the books (where unless she knows she's in a book aka deadpool powers she's not lying) has her wanting to save her people and not want to be like Garrosh in messy wars and body count.

Somewhere something changed in either Legion or BFA era. It could have been the lantern was her last roll of the dice to escape and Gen breaking it destroyed her final chance of escape. She did say to herself (internal thought) and to Saurfang that if Varian survived, Gen would never gone rogue and there would have been no war.

Hell her goal would have been even then in said war to just capture teldrassil and force concessions to the Alliance which would have made more war almost impossible due to lack of alliance strength. Internal thoughts again so not lies.

It does seem like for expansions post wrath she tried to stay away from the Jailer but something resigned her to the fate and her talks with Anduin where he sees her faltering is still her fighting it.

But at the same time she might also believe that some of the workings of the afterlife are also flawed and need fixing to the point she is siding with the Jailer much like western allies sided with USSR in WW2. Same enemy can make unlikely allies.

[loras]

Danuser said in today's Q&A; the Anduin was needed to get an audience with the Archon (and obviously, getting the key).

Did Sylvanas really believe she was able to convince Anduin to attack the Archon? Or the plan was to convince Anduin and then to convince the Firsbone to bring suicide? Obviously, this is not the case. How Anduin left the Kyrian territory without any harm?

I am also amazed the Kyrian are so adamant about receiving a soul like Uther, but if it is a living good human king that was trapped...they low their defenses a lot...

Sylvanas seems quite naive in the story: not noticing the Jailer created Arthas, no realizing that she is another pawn, and now with Anduin.

I hope Blizzard brings a world-changing reason for "convincing: arguments of the Jailer.

TL;DR: Sylvanas wanted Anduin to collaborate voluntarily. There was NO way to convince Anduin to attack the Archon. The only way was the Jailer to control him.

Sylvanas isn't known for truly thinking things through.

[Super Dickmann]

The entire sequence has some good animation to it and Sylvanas having any interiority at all should be an improvement, but the sole real result of this characterization is to make her out, as @Jastall says into a staggering moron, who puts inexplicable trust in someone not only associated with every bad thing that happened to her like Satan, but turn on him for the most bizarre reasons. We went on this whole painfully long rigamarole last expansion about how Sylvanas crossed a personal line by torturing one dude into compliance, yet not only does she now not remember this, but she also has long-term memory loss of the fact that her entire kingdom exists only because of mind control through banshees. At this point she's planned her sisters' assassination and waved off her long time lover to be able to complete her stupid plan and neither her family, nation or close people have any effect on her. Even basic pattern recognition is wasted on this intellectual midget, it's why Anduin can get that dig in about how obviously evil everything around her is. No, the only thing to get anything out of her is Anduin, with whom she's spoken to once.

Braindead evil caricature Sylvanas is a real piece of work in BFA, but braindead and naive Sylvanas who pulls all she did because she trusted the most untrustworthy man in the universe only to be woken up to this fact by the God-King is something else.

[loras]

The entire sequence has some good animation to it and Sylvanas having any interiority at all should be an improvement, but the sole real result of this characterization is to make her out, as @Jastall says into a staggering moron, who puts inexplicable trust in someone not only associated with every bad thing that happened to her like Satan, but turn on him for the most bizarre reasons. We went on this whole painfully long rigamarole last expansion about how Sylvanas crossed a personal line by torturing one dude into compliance, yet not only does she now not remember this, but she also has long-term memory loss of the fact that her entire kingdom exists only because of mind control through banshees. At this point she's planned her sisters' assassination and waved off her long time lover to be able to complete her stupid plan and neither her family, nation or close people have any effect on her. Even basic pattern recognition is wasted on this intellectual midget, it's why Anduin can get that dig in about how obviously evil everything around her is. No, the only thing to get anything out of her is Anduin, with whom she's spoken to once.

Braindead evil caricature Sylvanas is a real piece of work in BFA, but braindead and naive Sylvanas who pulls all she did because she trusted the most untrustworthy man in the universe only to be woken up to this fact by the God-King is something else.

Not often a fan of your posts but this is spot on.

[Tarba]

Why is it even a question? It's not like they are actually subtil in anything they do.
Anduin is controled, pretty much like Arthas was.

[Quaade]

Sylvanas seems quite naive in the story...

In this story? She's always been naive, her entire portrayal since WC3 has been one of someone who's extremely naive and has so deep narcissistic traits that she thinks that she's the superior one.

- WC3 - She thinks she was elected Ranger General due to her skills. She was elected due to nepotistic influences. If she really was as clever as she says she would never have taken the bait to be ambushed in the first place.

- WotLK - She trusted one of the most duplicitous beings in the known universe to be on her side and was completely blindsided by his betrayal. How is that competence?

- Cata - She was killed by Godfrey whom she allowed attending a summit without searching him based on "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Anyone actually skilled in psychology would know that The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy even if our goals align. I should abstain from being hostile to them and I still should be cautious." How is that being clever?

- Legion - Going clandestinely to Stormheim when she should have gone there as publicly as possible on a "diplomatic mission." Greymane was only able to move against her because she went there secretly and was never supposed to be there officially. How is that knowing politics?

- Shadowlands - The Jailer: Undead automatically go to the Maw.
Mograine: *exists and went to Maldraxxus despite being undead*
How is failing to know something that public knowledge any sign of intelligence?

When combining the above questions how do they show her as anything other than extremely naive and having a heavy bout of malign narcissistic personality disorder?

[Xofa]

She was convincing him to join their cause willingly and accept the power of Death.
Killing the Arcon was the following step.

Dude.. 5 years and yet you cannot get your facts correct? The Arcon is NOT DEAD for the 10th million time now..... Jesus christ man.

[KSM899]

Dude.. 5 years and yet you cannot get your facts correct? The Arcon is NOT DEAD for the 10th million time now..... Jesus christ man.

Why so serious?

I know she is not dead, but I dare say the Jailer wanted to kill her, that's why I said "Killing" as part of their plan.

[Xofa]

Why so serious?

I know she is not dead, but I dare say the Jailer wanted to kill her, that's why I said "Killing" as part of their plan.

.. if the Jailer wanted her dead don't you think he would have stabbed her multiple times already instead of 1 stab? Come on man..