How do people feel about flying in previous expansions?

[Wingspan]

If your decision to sub/unsub relies that much on flying then you should really consider other games.

Flying ... no flying ... it's still easy to navigate the world. Sure it's not as mindless but whatever ...

I’ve “considered” other games for many years now but I can afford another.

I’m just saying that I’d like to give Bliz some money... and it wouldn’t take much on their part to make it happen. But I can wait if need be.

I’m not sure how other people generally feel about that though, which is why I asked.

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I have mixed feelings about Pathfinder. I played WoD and Legion from launch, so I got Pathfinder around the same time everyone else did. And I have to admit, it did make getting flying feel like something special. Levelling later alts who could fly during the levelling process did trivialise some aspects of it, though that may also be because I already knew the mechanics and the quests.

I then stopped playing half-way through Legion, and only came back in summer 2020, when BfA was nearing the end of its cycle. And there, Pathfinder felt like a huge limitation, because I was so far behind. All the content patches had been released, so there was an overwhelming amount of content, along with new mechanics, and it just felt like this huge mountain of a chore to get flying, and get myself viable for raiding, and get my professions levelled, etc. The flightmasters whistle did help, though. But even with that, having to use ground mounts when everybody around me was already flying wasn't enjoyable.

What I'm trying to say is...keep Pathfinder, if you must. But for the love of [deity of choice], stick in a catch-up mechanic for the people who come in later during the expansion.

I played for 8 years and ended up leaving in mid-late MoP after they made the flight change intentions for WoD public.

I went back for 1 month at the end of WoD, but I found that most of my time was so focused on getting Pathfinder (so I could enjoy the game) that I didn’t actually enjoy the game as much. I finished Pathfinder and left the game on the first day of the new expansion (Legion).

Since then, Bliz has offered me (and others) 6 or 8 free weekends or similar promotions... I took them up on a couple, but the overall experience was pretty meh without flight (although I will give credit that one of the Legion quest chains had nice wrap up). In total, I think I did one zone in each promotion... and only on one character. In the old days, I would complete most zones on 6-8 characters.

I understand that Bliz is unlikely to ever let go of Pathfinder (or some equivalent) but I’d like to see it killed off in the old content.

[Ringthane]

The biggest problem with flying is that it does take away from the idea of the game. Think about it - we're supposed to be heroes, riding into danger and making the land safer for the rest of the people. If we can just fly over it, then why are we even bothering? We're not heroes, or champions, or fighters? We're just a bunch of jerks, coasting over the common folk while laughing at their plight.

Why do you think we always see everyone riding into battle in cutscenes? There are plenty of quests where you ride a dragon, or something else, and just bomb the crap out of stuff. Why don't we just do that for everything? And you know that if we did just do that for everything, you'd all be here whinging about that.

Believe me, I'd give anything to be able to teleport to work everyday, instead of having to drive through the snow, and the traffic, and the idiots who don't know enough to tie their shoes properly, let alone handle the two tons of metal they were handed the keys to. But the world we live in requires driving, so we must drive. Same here - the world is designed for our characters to ride into battle and emerge triumphant.

[Sondrelk]

No, it doesn't. There's no challenge to undercut. The open-world is not a structured instanced content that needs to be navigated in a specific order. It's not a battleground and it's not a dungeon.

The only difference between a ground mount and a flying mount - is the speed of traversal from A to B, and the amount of annoyance presented by terrain.

The problem is that flying doesnt add to the game. It simply removes the parts you don't like.
Flying doesnt make travel from A to B more interesing, it makes it faster.

All other means of transport in the game has inherent pros and cons. No mount is the slowest, but it also gives you full access to utility abilities like stealth. Grounds mounts are faster but requires running around enemy packs or risk getting dazed. Flight points are fast and allows oyu to skip everything in between, but is also only between a few select points on the map.

Flying has all the advantages offered by these but none of the weaknesses.

[Glorious Leader]

It was great. The fact that the developers are either unwilling or unable to capitalize on the popularity of a feature THEY INTRODUCED speaks volumes. They've slowly made it less and less useful to use and Shadowlands appears to continue this trend. I wish they would simple remove it as the compromise they've offered is reay quite deceptive.

[Sondrelk]

It was great. The fact that the developers are either unwilling or unable to capitalize on the popularity of a feature THEY INTRODUCED speaks volumes.

It really does speak to the sheer volume of hte mistake they made introducing it in the first place. It has never truly elevated the game except giving a brief moment of awe from being able to see things from higher up and move faster.

[aceperson]

Flying is overrated. Its a crutch. Tie flying to completing quests or achievements.

exactly this. i don't get why people can't understand that flying is only a convenience. it doesn't make the game better, it just makes it go faster. guess what guys! shadowlands sucks right now. what is flying going to change by itself that will suddenly make the expansion amazing or even good? NOTHING! you're still going to do the same boring world quests and get little to no loot. you'll just do those things faster.

[Djuntas]

Personally i've never been a fan of flying.

The issue I have with it is that they don't really design zones based around it

Storm Peaks and Icecrown had some interesting interaction with it but the past few expansions the zones feel smaller and flying just feels a bit redundant

As a big pro-flyer, to a point where Im nazi about it - I agree zones should 100% be designed around flying.

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exactly this. i don't get why people can't understand that flying is only a convenience. it doesn't make the game better, it just makes it go faster. guess what guys! shadowlands sucks right now. what is flying going to change by itself that will suddenly make the expansion amazing or even good? NOTHING! you're still going to do the same boring world quests and get little to no loot. you'll just do those things faster.

I agree it does not help on content per say, BUT it speeds up said boring content, so you can...well do other things in wow, or even play other games or...well not play at all.

[Glorious Leader]

No, it doesn't. There's no challenge to undercut. The open-world is not a structured instanced content that needs to be navigated in a specific order. It's not a battleground and it's not a dungeon.

The only difference between a ground mount and a flying mount - is the speed of traversal from A to B, and the amount of annoyance presented by terrain.

which is really the point of non flying. You could see it in place like suramar for example or even drazalor. Negotiating those places with flying is trivial without it it was a frustrating experience. Not fun or challenging for the record. Just burdensome. It became a game of figure how the designer wanted you to get to point a.

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It really does speak to the sheer volume of hte mistake they made introducing it in the first place. It has never truly elevated the game except giving a brief moment of awe from being able to see things from higher up and move faster.

Yes universally popular and beloved features are clearly mistakes. What they really ought to do is make sure they don't introduce it in wow classic tbc. Its their chance to do it all over again.

[Sondrelk]

which is really the point of non flying. You could see it in place like suramar for example or even drazalor. Negotiating those places with flying is trivial without it it was a frustrating experience. Not fun or challenging for the record. Just burdensome. It became a game of figure how the designer wanted you to get to point a.

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Yes universally popular and beloved features are clearly mistakes. What they really ought to do is make sure they don't introduce it in wow classic tbc. Its their chance to do it all over again.

What you are saying is that Blizzard should just flat out remove features if they are slightly inconvenient.
Why not just add the Flaskertaur to the live version of the game? Gearing is so annoying and slow, why not just let people get to the good part faster?

Just because people want it doesnt mean it is good. I am sure many people would like some heroin, that doesnt mean you should give it to them if you know it doesnt actually help anything.

Again, what does flying add to the game? Because from what I am seeing it doesnt do much more than remove a significant chunk of the game because some players find it too annoying to play it.

[LordVargK]

Just increase ground mount speed to 350%. Ground riding can be fun, the manasaber quest in suramar proved that. It just is too slow, compared to flying, which is not only twice as fast speed wise, but also does not have to care about any obstacles.
Many like flying as a fast way to get from A to B, but you being able to ignore everything the world has to offer is also a valid concern.

Give us ground mounts that are at least somewhat on par with flying mounts and there would be far less complaints about flying. Also less time wasted traveling.

[Argorwal]

Personally i've never been a fan of flying.

The issue I have with it is that they don't really design zones based around it

Storm Peaks and Icecrown had some interesting interaction with it but the past few expansions the zones feel smaller and flying just feels a bit redundant

I feel like flying ruined icecrown.

You have these massive gates set up in series to battle through to get to ICC in the quests but you just fly over them all.

[Elim Garak]

The problem is that flying doesnt add to the game. It simply removes the parts you don't like.
Flying doesnt make travel from A to B more interesing, it makes it faster.

"interesting" is subjective... and I'm out of ten-foot poles anyway
As for flying adding nothing - come on man. It really does add. Especially for World pvp and group pve activities. It gives you the means to participate in them. Without flying - "nah, I'm not riding there"
It removes nothing - it just gives players the option to ignore something they want to ignore while going to the thing they want.

[Glorious Leader]

Just because people want it doesnt mean it is good. I am sure many people would like some heroin, that doesnt mean you should give it to them if you know it doesnt actually help anything.

This is the dumbest comparison I've ever read on these forums. No not everyone wants heroin, otherwise they would go out and acquire heroin. Additionally flying in a video game is not a narcotic. It was a feature introduced by the developers who were apparently unable or unwilling to capitalize on its wild success.

[aceperson]

As a big pro-flyer, to a point where Im nazi about it - I agree zones should 100% be designed around flying.

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I agree it does not help on content per say, BUT it speeds up said boring content, so you can...well do other things in wow, or even play other games or...well not play at all.

i totally get that idea and i would understand the logic if there were things you actually wanted to do but this expansion is so bare bones. you really have world quests, whatever rares you wanna farm for cosmetics, dungeons, and raids. and flying really only helps with 2 of those things. all the older content already has flying so adding flying to shadowlands really doesn't add anything. it just saves some time.

[Wingspan]

The biggest problem with flying is that it does take away from the idea of the game. Think about it - we're supposed to be heroes, riding into danger and making the land safer for the rest of the people. If we can just fly over it, then why are we even bothering? We're not heroes, or champions, or fighters? We're just a bunch of jerks, coasting over the common folk while laughing at their plight.

That’s your viewpoint, which there is nothing wrong in having, but 80 years worth Superman (and the massive amounts of other flying heroes) would suggest that most people are not as bothered by heroes that fly above the masses.

And it’s kind of a hard call as to what is more jerk-ish when you compare flying over them or riding right past them, which is (in practicality) what would happen.


In the context of fantasy settings, dragon-riding and spells that are used for flight are pretty common, so it’s not really a stretch to want that in your fantasy game.

[Sondrelk]

This is the dumbest comparison I've ever read on these forums. No not everyone wants heroin, otherwise they would go out and acquire heroin. Additionally flying in a video game is not a narcotic. It was a feature introduced by the developers who were apparently unable or unwilling to capitalize on its wild success.

So here is the problem. There are seemingly two camps on the flying issue. On one hand you have the ones that don't want flying because tthey think it cheapens the experience and they would rather Blizzard makes the game better and more fun. On the other you have those that want flying, and the reasoning I always hear is taht they just don't want ot bother with all that annoying gameplay.

So why should Blizzard want to design the game for those want don't want to play it? It would be like designign raids for those that just want to get the Mythic mount.

Not everyone wants flying, and the reasons they don't want it is transparently obvious.

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What is the point of Blizzard making mount equipment? Or making teleports a reward for playing the covenant sanctums? What would eb the point of even making the game more than just a couple arenas if the design intent was that players should just skip it?
Designers don't design games for those that don't want to play it.

[Ringthane]

That’s your viewpoint, which there is nothing wrong in having, but 80 years worth Superman (and the massive amounts of other flying heroes) would suggest that most people are not as bothered by heroes that fly above the masses.

And it’s kind of a hard call as to what is more jerk-ish when you compare flying over them or riding right past them, which is (in practicality) what would happen.


In the context of fantasy settings, dragon-riding and spells that are used for flight are pretty common, so it’s not really a stretch to want that in your fantasy game.

Superman is not World of Warcraft. If WoW had Superman, we wouldn't need to do anything or fight anything. Superman would handle it all. There'd be no game.

And no, you wouldn't just ride right past them. That's not how battle works. How many wars did we win by sending our troops into battle and them just riding past the enemy? If it were that easy, we'd never lose a war.

[Elim Garak]

So here is the problem. There are seemingly two camps on the flying issue. On one hand you have the ones that don't want flying because tthey think it cheapens the experience and they would rather Blizzard makes the game better and more fun. On the other you have those that want flying, and the reasoning I always hear is taht they just don't want ot bother with all that annoying gameplay.

Until they removed flying there was only one camp.

Then a group of people who can't enjoy the game while others enjoying the game - decided to support the removal of flight - see I can do this thing that you did too.

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What is the point of Blizzard making mount equipment? Or making teleports a reward for playing the covenant sanctums? What would eb the point of even making the game more than just a couple arenas if the design intent was that players should just skip it?
Designers don't design games for those that don't want to play it.

Are you saying they couldn't possibly have designed something else? Why are you so critical of their ability?

[Ringthane]

This is the dumbest comparison I've ever read on these forums. No not everyone wants heroin, otherwise they would go out and acquire heroin. Additionally flying in a video game is not a narcotic. It was a feature introduced by the developers who were apparently unable or unwilling to capitalize on its wild success.

Not everyone wants flying either. And he didn't say "everyone wants heroin". He said "many people want heroin".

This is an apt comparison. Your not knowing basic tenets of the English language doesn't make it not so.

[Sondrelk]

Until they removed flying there was only one camp.

Then a group of people who can't enjoy the game while others enjoying the game - decided to support the removal of flight - see I can do this thing that you did too.

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Are you saying they couldn't possibly have designed something else? Why are you so critical of their ability?

I am pretty confident that there were thsoe that didnt like flying way bakc then either. I was in fact one of them. The reason you didnt hear from them was that noone thought Blizzard would actually have the balls to make such a drastic change for the good of the game.


What I am saying is that Blizzard isnt given an incentive ot be innovative with gameplay if they capitulate to those that insist they don't want ot bother with the game.

There wouldnt exactly be much of a mythic raiding scene if Blizzard decided to listen to the LFR players that simply wanted the mount from the final boss with none of the effort.