Arthas did Nothing Wrong

[shadowmatrix]

Considering that the Jailer's big complaint when he attacked Bolvar was that the Lich Kings had been ignore his voice Arthas is still a villain.

[MikeBogina]

Blizzard hate Ner'zhul, they've been downplaying him as much as possible since Wrath. The plot of Shadowlands is the next step in that plan, removing even more of his agency in Arthas' story by making the main driving force the Jailer.

I don't think it's just Ner'zhul. I've always felt like Chris Metzen didn't like the character Arthas and I rarely seen him talk about him, like others did. They did Ner'zhul dirty in the way you say but they're also doing Arthas dirty with replacing him with Anduin.

[BreathTaker]

I suspect Arthas has always been guilty only for touching the cursed sword.
But to be honest i have never played w3 so i can only judge by the Stratholme.

[Tarba]

Yes he did pretty much nothing wrong until he was corrupted.
What he did in Stratholme was the only thing he could do to save his land. Even if he had to tell the piece of trash Uther to go fuck himself. He had done nothing, the scourge would have won. Going in Northrend to end the scourge menace was also the natural next step. Making sure they can't recover and do that again to his land. Only problem, is that it let Uther free to whine to mr "huuuu the plague in the Northlands is not my concern" so he could get back his titles and sabotage Arthas's war effort.
Killing the mercernaries... well trolls and ogers... It's pretty much a human soldier daily job.
After that he was pretty much controlled by frostmourne/nerzul and corrupted.

He could only go forward.
It's easy to judge after with "huuu the blade was controled by the one responsible of the scourge duuuh". Nobody could even think it was a possibility at the time. He only knew of the blade by Muradin and it was in an abandoned place.
Except maybe mr top war3 retard Medihv.

[Unholyground]

Blizzard hate Ner'zhul, they've been downplaying him as much as possible since Wrath. The plot of Shadowlands is the next step in that plan, removing even more of his agency in Arthas' story by making the main driving force the Jailer.

I mean I am fine with that it fits in decently.

[Traveler Voltin]

arthas actions were all his own.

Anduin is a literal puppet to the jailer.

[Frontenac]

See, the reason this new Anduin Lich King nonsense falls flat is because it is basically just mind control. There is honestly no reason whatsoever that Anduin is the one who has to become the 'new Lich King', they might as well have picked some random no-name NPC ("oh no, but he's a super powerful wielder of the light, it has to be him!" aaand that's bad writing). At least giving the role to Sylvanas would've made sense, as eye-rolly as that would have been.

Arthas earned his fall from grace with atrocities in his quest for vengeance. Anduin did nothing of the sort, did not make personal choices that led to him being in that situation, and has had no character involvement in this entire atrocious arc. He is nothing but living proof of how far Blizzard's writers have fallen.

It does not fall flat. Anduin has not become the new Lich King. There is nothing here that tells us that he has suddenly gained power over death and the undead. He is being mindcontrolled to serve as the Jailer's proxy outside the Maw. It is an interesting character development for... Sylvanas. Sylvanas did to Anduin exactly what Arthas did to her. She stripped him of his free will to be used as a puppet against his own people. And we see that she is not quite comfortable with it either. As for Anduin, I have no doubt that we will free him of the Jailer's influence, but being used in that way will certainly have an effect on his character.

[Aucald]

After seeing the latest patch cinematic, is Anduin responsible of what he did in it? if no, then the same goes for Arthas as he was under the Jailer influence all along.

It's a matter of degree. Arthas was being manipulated by the Jailer's influence, but he wasn't his slave - as the Jailer himself says all the previous Lich Kings bucked his ultimate control and didn't do what they were supposed to (e.g. work to free him). This is in contrast to Anduin who is shown to more completely be the Jailer's slave and is visibly fighting his influence during the confrontation with Kyrestia. How much free will and culpability Arthas had is a matter of debate, but he definitely had some agency and thus bears some responsibility for what he did as both Death Knight and Lich King. Anduin has no agency currently, and really no ultimate responsibility for his actions because of that.

[huth]

Maybe, we may never know.

I assure you, the story of WC3 has already been told fully.

[fatgunn]

Stratholme wasn't wrong. But a lot of the shit he did afterwards was.

[Maljinwo]

Sylvanas did to Anduin exactly what Arthas did to her. She stripped him of his free will to be used as a puppet against his own people. And we see that she is not quite comfortable with it either

She did lich king shit for years but only now that Golden boi is involved she regrets it

10/10

[Aucald]

Stratholme wasn't wrong. But a lot of the shit he did afterwards was.

I would say the first unambiguously evil thing Arthas did prior to taking up Frostmourne was stranding his own men in Icecrown by burning their boats, and then blaming it on the mercenaries he hired to fight for him and letting them be slaughtered by his enraged footmen.

[Saltysquidoon]

Strath was justified, it's always been justified. in fact it's important for it to be justified as a means of driving the wedge between Arthas, Uther and Jaina (beyond anime 'it was all a misunderstanding hijinks).
Northrend however, that's another kettle of fish, the worm had turned at that point.

[Houle]

I mean I am fine with that it fits in decently.

how so?
dude was actually a really dope villain in WC2 and especially WC3, and his story made sense.
until blizzard decided to fuck him over every way they could for some reason, which in turn makes a lot of the story that came before stupid.

[Kithelle]

After seeing the latest patch cinematic, is Anduin responsible of what he did in it? if no, then the same goes for Arthas as he was under the Jailer influence all along.

Well...he may be under his own will...he didn't kill the Archon, it may have been intentional?

But yes...I'd say he did nothing wrong if Sylvanas "did nothing wrong". She had free will and I guess we're supposed to excuse what she had done...if we excuse her then we can easily excuse Arthas

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She did lich king shit for years but only now that Golden boi is involved she regrets it

10/10

And she is forgiven for it...so why not forgive Arthas too?

[KSM899]

Anduin is being directly mind-controlled. Arthas burned a city, killed allied mercenaries, doomed his soldiers to die, and this is before touching Frostmourne. Afterwards, he was never controlled, only lead. His emoted were sapped but he still had free will. He chose to kill his father and destroy his kingdom.

Yes he did bad things, but if it wasn't for Frostmourn he wouldn't have done the things that everyone thinks are unforgivable.

As for stratholme, what was he supposed to do?

When I was reading the novel "Rise of the Lich King", I didn't feel that he was full in control after taking the blade, he was changed, the blade changed him to the core, so regardless if he had free will or not, he wasn't the same.

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Arthas was not getting puppeteered by the Jailer.

He kinda was.

In wrath we were told by Uthur ghost that the only thing keeping the Lich King from kill all life is the renaming part of Arthas, so in a way Arthas had no control.

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Did you even play Warcraft 3? Have you kept up with the lore from in-game and in side pieces (Chronicles, for example) since WotLK?


You would not have posted this thread if you have, and I'll have to question your true intent with posting this thread if you have.

Oh yeah .. I did, that's why I am asking this question

I kinda wish they stuck with the old story, it would have ended his story with his death, but the new story opens the door for more speculations.

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In the original story, Arthas was not under the jailer influence all along.

But they can absolutely rewrite the story to make it true, and then redeem Arthas.

In the original story he was under the influence of Ner'zhul as a death knight, then when he merged with him, Arthas as an independent character ceased to exist.

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Arthas was being corrupted by making advantage of his emotions rather than using magic, kinda like how Anakin got corrupted by Palpatine. He still had noble intentions but things got dark rather quick for him the more that he was moving towards Mal'Ganis. When he picked up Frostmourne it was then where he lost his soul and became a puppet of the Lich King (who is now apparently a puppet of the Jailor..). The way Anduin got turned is more similiar like how Arthas tried to turn Bolvar in ICC.

As for Arthas having done nothing wrong, I'd say he was right that Stratholme had to be purged (better die just die a swift and clean death rather than turn into a zombie and kill your loved ones), but he was wrong the moment that he wanted to chase Mal'Ganis. Medivh even mentioned to Arthas that this fate would lead to him, but ofcourse he was to stubborn to listen (which I don't exactly blame him for either, Medivh should learn not to come over as a madmen).

This +1 ...

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Arthas wasn't forced....he did all that shit willingly.

Nah .. he did not.

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Setting aside the issue of Arthas' crimes before he took up Frostmourne, Arthas and Anduin seem to react differently to the Jailer's influence. Anduin seems to be able to temporarily break free, looking for a moment like Arthas did as he died asking his father if it was "finally over," but he never actually speaks in the Kingsmourne cutscene, it's just the Jailer speaking through him. Zovaal describes him as a "vessel," he's little more than a puppet, while Arthas never seemed that way. He spoke of his own experiences, acknowledged his past, and still sought to protect his people and his kingdom in his own twisted way, raising them as an eternal army. This implies to me that he still had some agency even while dominated.

Anduin knew everything before being turned, Arthas thought the blade will grant him power to save his people.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Anduin knew everything before being turned, Arthas thought the blade will grant him power to save his people.

That's not even slightly relevant to what I said. Anduin knowing he was about to be mind-raped doesn't change his agency, unless it's revealed that he actually agreed to it after the cutscene where he insisted that Sylvanas make the choice for him.

And as I said, Arthas had a different level of agency while under Frostmourne's influence. I don't believe he was completely responsible, but it's clearly different to Anduin who literally speaks with Zovaal's voice.

[Unholyground]

I assure you, the story of WC3 has already been told fully.

Nope WC3 never happened now.

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how so?
dude was actually a really dope villain in WC2 and especially WC3, and his story made sense.
until blizzard decided to fuck him over every way they could for some reason, which in turn makes a lot of the story that came before stupid.

As with all things they change, using established characters brings in more people and money in the end even if they have to rework the story. WoW is about one thing, making money.

[Minikin]

Anduin is being directly mind-controlled. Arthas burned a city, killed allied mercenaries, doomed his soldiers to die, and this is before touching Frostmourne. Afterwards, he was never controlled, only lead. His emoted were sapped but he still had free will. He chose to kill his father and destroy his kingdom.

Mind you, I'm pretty sure we stand now on the precipice of most of that being retconned. I think they will retcon everything right uptil the moment he got frostmourne and keep the rest.

So stratholme and ship burning I believe.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Mind you, I'm pretty sure we stand now on the precipice of most of that being retconned. I think they will retcon everything right uptil the moment he got frostmourne and keep the rest.

So stratholme and ship burning I believe.

Why do you believe all that will be retcon? I see nothing going on now or the future that could possibly do that.