Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Draco-Onis]

Yes, it is really unreasonable to expect everyone to become hermits for more than a year.

That's why vaccination needs to be pushed as hard as possible. Last year was like a pause in a life and despite being on a cautious side, I certainly do not want another year of this shitshow of dodging invisible bullets and living in a bunker.

No one has a say in this and the sad fact is even with vaccines this is far from over because not everyone around the world will have access to it. The virus is going to keep mutating for years until vaccines are no longer effective, countries are also in the bunker mentality and are not thinking long term.

While quarantine measures will ease I see masks and social distancing becoming a permanent fixture from here on out.

[Vash The Stampede]

People cannot maintain such discipline forever, so on some level it is understandable that they get tired and treat it in a more lax manner.

You either continue to maintain social distancing or catch COVID. You don't want to catch COVID.

Still this is mostly on your government. If you open bars and send the signal to relax, don't be surprised when people use them and actually do relax.

The only reason people open up their businesses is because the government isn't giving them enough money to be able to afford a shutdown. The government wants them open because the government wants to collect those sweet taxes because the government can't afford not to. And they say capitalism never killed anyone.

That's why vaccination needs to be pushed as hard as possible. Last year was like a pause in a life and despite being on a cautious side, I certainly do not want another year of this shitshow of dodging invisible bullets and living in a bunker.

Those vaccines aren't 100% and I believe that the virus has already mutated to the point where we need new vaccines to combat it. The ones we're given are now behind. BTW my neighbor got the vaccine in his arm and is in terrible shape because of it. His arm hurts so badly that he is staying home for a week until he recovers. The dudes 26 years old. I'm going to wait for version 2.0 before I get the vaccine.

In Bill Gates is a piece of shit who launders his reputation via his foundation, news:

https://khn.org/news/rather-than-giv...ith-drugmaker/

Oh look, capitalism did a capitalism. I'd be more worried about what Bill Gates is gonna do with all that farm land he's been buying, because he owns most of it. Europe has been having issues with buying the vaccine as the companies are selling it at a higher price to other countries. Should this really shock anyone?

While quarantine measures will ease I see masks and social distancing becoming a permanent fixture from here on out.

Yep, because COVID ain't going anywhere. It will mutate and spread and get worse because we're giving it selection pressure. People need to be reminded that as long as the virus lives it will mutate and find new ways to spread. Unless we kill it 100%, we'll get what we see with bacteria in this Petri Dish.

[Forogil]

Well that's nice label to put on the tin and all, but it doesn't change the fact that whatever the Gates Foundation's ostensible mission plan it'll never actually succeed because private charity doesn't really do anything,

Except that it actually does something and has helped moved the focus towards solution that actually work, compared with traditional government funded charities that were less accountable and more a vehicle for funding corrupt third world officials.

The fact remain - Oxford University had unrealistic ideas of their vaccine, and they luckily modified their approach to ensure that the vaccine was actually produced.
As we have seen building a good vaccine factory is not something that is straightforward for anyone - and without the partnership with Astra-Zeneca we would have gotten far less of that vaccine or nothing. (As for the efficacy of the vaccine that's more the work development at Oxford University.)

And, yes I trust Gates Foundation, more than a five year old blog post from a company previously known as SportsBlogs. I also trust the Gates Foundation more than government that for ideological reasons may prioritize e.g. abstinence over condoms. Especially as Gates Foundation actually try to listen to evidence.

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Yep, because COVID ain't going anywhere. It will mutate and spread and get worse because we're giving it selection pressure. People need to be reminded that as long as the virus lives it will mutate and find new ways to spread. Unless we kill it 100%, we'll get what we see with bacteria in this Petri Dish.

Yes, evolution is a strong force. However, resistance to antibiotics in bacteria has two aspect that we luckily see less of in viruses: that the drugs are used in animal farming to promote growth and once one bacteria has resistance to the antibiotics it's likely that the resistance jumps to different bacteria - such horizontal gene transfer between unrelated species is less common in viruses.

[Draco-Onis]

Yep, because COVID ain't going anywhere. It will mutate and spread and get worse because we're giving it selection pressure. People need to be reminded that as long as the virus lives it will mutate and find new ways to spread. Unless we kill it 100%, we'll get what we see with bacteria in this Petri Dish.

There is a new vector for mutation now we can call them the vaccinated, these people are walking around without masks and not socially distancing thinking getting the vaccine makes them invincible. They are going to be the perfect breeding grounds for new variants.

[Nellise]

There is a new vector for mutation now we can call them the vaccinated, these people are walking around without masks and not socially distancing thinking getting the vaccine makes them invincible. They are going to be the perfect breeding grounds for new variants.

That doesn't seem to be where variants are coming from. It seems like it might be people who can't get rid of the virus and it sits inside of them mutating over and over: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ants-come-from

[Draco-Onis]

That doesn't seem to be where variants are coming from. It seems like it might be people who can't get rid of the virus and it sits inside of them mutating over and over: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ants-come-from

That's because the vast majority of people are not vaccinated yet but as their number rises the super variants will come from these people it's only a matter of time. The virus is adapting now without them but it will get worse once it does because being vaccinated doesn't make you immune. Frankly the end of this virus will come from treatment we have put way too much focus on vaccines as the only solution.

[Vash The Stampede]

Yes, evolution is a strong force. However, resistance to antibiotics in bacteria has two aspect that we luckily see less of in viruses: that the drugs are used in animal farming to promote growth and once one bacteria has resistance to the antibiotics it's likely that the resistance jumps to different bacteria - such horizontal gene transfer between unrelated species is less common in viruses.

The idea here is that by giving the virus pressure with vaccines and social distancing then we push for beneficial mutations for the virus, as those will be easier to infect and transmit. Just like in the video where the bacteria will break through barriers and those that do will replicate and proliferate, so too will the COVID virus. This is why we really need to think about removing restrictions and depending on a vaccine to be the end of COVID. We not realize that we're making a more deadlier version of the virus.

There is a new vector for mutation now we can call them the vaccinated, these people are walking around without masks and not socially distancing thinking getting the vaccine makes them invincible. They are going to be the perfect breeding grounds for new variants.

This is exactly what I'm afraid of. Just like with masks, the vaccinated may walk around thinking that they're immune to the virus when they're really just resistant. Social distancing and mask wearing must be performed for years to come, and we as a society must rethink of how we deal with our economy. We need to prevent people from becoming homeless, give them a guaranteed income, and make sure they have food to eat.

[Nellise]

That's because the vast majority of people are not vaccinated yet but as their number rises the super variants will come from these people it's only a matter of time. The virus is adapting now without them but it will get worse once it does because being vaccinated doesn't make you immune. Frankly the end of this virus will come from treatment we have put way too much focus on vaccines as the only solution.

That's sort of the opposite of what's happening though. The virus needs time to mutate and if the vaccines are helping the body get rid of it quickly it doesn't have that time.

From the evidence so far, vaccines are the treatment. Vaccines have reduced hospitalizations and deaths from those that have gotten them to almost 0.

[Draco-Onis]

That's sort of the opposite of what's happening though. The virus needs time to mutate and if the vaccines are helping the body get rid of it quickly it doesn't have that time.

From the evidence so far, vaccines are the treatment. Vaccines have reduced hospitalizations and deaths from those that have gotten them to almost 0.

While people who are vaccinated spend less time in the hospital they are still infectious to other people especially those not vaccinated which is the larger part of the population. The virus is taking that data from them it doesn't stay within their bodies and dies. So these people are worse because not only are they infecting other people they are more likely to be asymptomatic because of the vaccine.

[Vash The Stampede]

That doesn't seem to be where variants are coming from. It seems like it might be people who can't get rid of the virus and it sits inside of them mutating over and over: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...ants-come-from

Yet these variants have found their way to places like the UK where they begin to spread fairly quickly. Because there are people who refuse to wear a mask and social distance.

That's because the vast majority of people are not vaccinated yet but as their number rises the super variants will come from these people it's only a matter of time. The virus is adapting now without them but it will get worse once it does because being vaccinated doesn't make you immune. Frankly the end of this virus will come from treatment we have put way too much focus on vaccines as the only solution.

The best thing to do is move society into a new direction. Promote automation so people aren't aren't doing certain jobs that can promote the spread of the virus. Encourage people to work from home, including students to school from home. I'd be in favor of closing down brick in motar to focus on online shopping. Governments should stop depending on the private industry to supply them drugs and vaccines and do it themselves. There's a lot that can be done but ultimately it would be the end of capitalism as we know it.

[Forogil]

The idea here is that by giving the virus pressure with vaccines and social distancing then we push for beneficial mutations for the virus, as those will be easier to infect and transmit. Just like in the video where the bacteria will break through barriers and those that do will replicate and proliferate, so too will the COVID virus.

I understand, it's just that antibiotic-resistance is in some sense more problematic because by over-using antibiotics for various reasons (including faster growing cows) we reduce the potential of anti-biotics against all bacteria; since the resistance can easily jump between different bacteria.

[Granyala]

I see masks and social distancing becoming a permanent fixture from here on out.

No way people will put up with that, not if C19 remains this selective about who it kills.

[Forogil]

The best thing to do is move society into a new direction. Promote automation so people aren't aren't doing certain jobs that can promote the spread of the virus. Encourage people to work from home, including students to school from home.

In case you didn't know: humans are social animals - and contact with other humans is important. One of the problems with not having students in schools is the lack of social development (another is that online learning isn't as good, and it also often reinforces existing social divides).

[Santti]

No way people will put up with that, not if C19 remains this selective about who it kills.

There is 0% chance that masks are here to stay. Don't need to worry about that. Social distancing might become slightly more commonplace beyond Covid-19, but... not really.

But let's not forget the about the people that catch Covid-19 and survive it. Because it's not either death or 100% fine. It can really mess your brain, lungs and heart for good, after you no longer have the illness itself.

[Granyala]

The best thing to do is move society into a new direction. Promote automation so people aren't aren't doing certain jobs that can promote the spread of the virus. Encourage people to work from home, including students to school from home.

Such nonsense it hurts.
The virus will NEVER go away again. You all need to accept that. We will live with this thing forever.
Vaccines are there to take the serious cases out of the equation. What's left are mild cases.

Boom, case closed. Accept the residual damage and continue your life. This idea of hunkering down in panic in hopes that the virus will one day not be a threat anymore is idiotic.

Also, the changes you propose are a pipe dream. humans cannot function w/o social interactions for an indefinite periot of time, many people are suffering after merely a year already. At some point the psychological consequences of this perma-crisis terror nonsense will take bigger toll on people that a few cases of C19 in a mostly vaccinated population ever will.

[Forogil]

While people who are vaccinated spend less time in the hospital they are still infectious to other people especially those not vaccinated which is the larger part of the population.

We don't know how infectious they are (assuming they actually get infected). They might be as infectious, or almost as infectious, that's why they should still follow the same rules. Obviously people are investigating this - https://www.thereporter.com/2021/02/...-and-huggable/

However, one major goal of vaccination programs is to reduce the spread even to the unvaccinated, and that only happen if the vaccinated cannot spread it as much.

[Granyala]

But let's not forget the about the people that catch Covid-19 and survive it. Because it's not either death or 100% fine. It can really mess your brain, lungs and heart for good, after you no longer have the illness itself.

So can any other viral infection, if you don't give your body tome to heal and rest.
Coupled with the sneaky nature of mild-/asymptomatic cases that can be a problem, I agree.

Research about whether C19 is special in that regard is still ongoing.

[Santti]

So can any other viral infection, if you don't give your body tome to heal and rest.
Coupled with the sneaky nature of mild-/asymptomatic cases that can be a problem, I agree.

Research about whether C19 is special in that regard is still ongoing.

There is no way flu and the like have anything like this.

[Granyala]

There is no way flu and the like have anything like this.

It totally could, if it were as infectious as SARS-CoV-2, were a new virus for everybody and if we didn't have a vaccine against it.
Flu is much more serious that most people give it credit for.

[Draco-Onis]

No way people will put up with that, not if C19 remains this selective about who it kills.

Viruses do not give a flying fuck what people want to put up with. We either take precautions or make things worse, vaccines don't unlock god mode