Since #nochanges is kaput, can we have Dual spec please?

[willtron]

That ship has sailed the second they decided to have paid boosts, which also didn't exist in TBC or even WotLK. You can't selectively have "this is in the spirit of the original" mate, sorry.

Paid boosts are shitty, but literally have no impact and nothing to do with this. But in that case, seeing as you think the floodgate is opened because of paid boost which does literally nothing to the game mechanics, lets have LFR and LFG from retail in then.

[Storfan]

You guys will get dual spec, in 2 years' time, with WotlK classic. And it will be the expensive, change at trainer, way as it was released. As that's the whole point of those classic servers you all wanted so desperately.

Why is it that retailers come into the classic section of the forum just to take a piss on us classic players? What have we ever done to you? Cant you just go back to Ashlands- or what ever the new exansion is called and let us have our boomer-fun in peace?

[Gratlim]

You think you do, but you don't.

he was right.

Haha indeed. Most of us overlooked totally the biggest and worst change of all: us
I guess he knew that we would get Classic with a retail mindset thus completely corrupting the essence of vanilla (not that there were not hardcore players then, but more like they were a small minority, not 90% of the pop).

He was wrong on one part though. Phase 1 was vanilla. Then the meta established itself and the whole thing went turbo garbage quickly.

OT: yes to dual spec. Planning on boosting a lock so i need that to go destro pve and sl/sl pvp. Embrassing the meta allready xD

[Hctaz]

So keep the original upfront cost for it (1k gold) and allow people to swap between the two templates at any given rest zone. If you want to modify either of the two templates, you need to go to a trainer and pay for it. So you have both the convenience and a reasonable cost attached to it. But having to go to a trainer every single time you want to swap between the two templates entirely defeats the point of having dual spec.

It doesn't defeat the purpose at all. The initial purpose was to be able to swap to a different spec in a pinch, or if you were a player who enjoyed different kinds of activities like raiding and PvP. It also helped healer main specs by having a DPS offspec to do daily quests or to farm out in the open world without having to swap between healer and DPS every single day paying the gold cost, rebuilding your talent trees, and updating your bars. It wasn't supposed to be freeform swapping on the fly per raid encounter back and forth. That's one reason why it should be at a trainer.

[Storfan]

It doesn't defeat the purpose at all. The initial purpose was to be able to swap to a different spec in a pinch, or if you were a player who enjoyed different kinds of activities like raiding and PvP. It also helped healer main specs by having a DPS offspec to do daily quests or to farm out in the open world without having to swap between healer and DPS every single day paying the gold cost, rebuilding your talent trees, and updating your bars. It wasn't supposed to be freeform swapping on the fly per raid encounter back and forth. That's one reason why it should be at a trainer.

Or just put a cooldown on it. Be it 1hour, 3hours, 12hours or even 24 hours. Either way, dual-spec would fit well into the already relaxed class/spec identity of TBC.

[rogoth]

Having played TBC recently if you are a healer it really sux balls to do anything. Can't farm anything with 1/3 dmg to healing ratio items. Dual spec (at the trainer) IS a good solution.

so respec then, it boggles my mind that people still hold onto this archaic notion that people didn't respec back in classic/TBC, i literally spent every piece of gold i earned from selling flasks/potions/transmute CD's that wasn't used for repairs on respecing my character over and over and over again when the need arose.

[Daymanmb]

#nochanges is only kaput because of how much the community has complained about various parts of Classic, mainly spell batching. This is a slippery slope we brought on ourselves.

Lol yeh, no changes didnt die with layering or megaservers . It was the community complaining about artificial lag...

[clevin]

Somebody answered to you already, but let me repeat: if you still have to go to the trainer, then what is the point of dual spec? To save a template for the other spec? There will be addons saving as many templates as you like, without adding "dual spec". So what's the point? Honest question btw

In actual TBC it was the cost. If you were a tank and wanted to farm as DPS or PVP as DPS the cost swiftly escalated to become pretty significant.

NOW... that was in the economy back then when 50 or 100g was a good amount of money. If a server economy makes that trivial, it's not a barrier. But for people who tanked or healed for their raids but wanted to be DPS off raid, yeah it was gold.

In case you weren't around during TBC... there were regularly crafting patterns that made gear that was highly desirable so people did in fact farm mats for those, so they weren't making gold from that farming.

Also, remember that arenas were a thing and you usually didnt want to do them as tank (not an issue for heals as much).

PS: Of course the other way to do 'dual spec' if they limit it to being done at the trainer is simply to adjust the respec costs so that it maxes out at something trivial like 10g.

- - - Updated - - -

so respec then, it boggles my mind that people still hold onto this archaic notion that people didn't respec back in classic/TBC, i literally spent every piece of gold i earned from selling flasks/potions/transmute CD's that wasn't used for repairs on respecing my character over and over and over again when the need arose.

That's the fucking point here.

[Aleksej89]

blizz ain't there to provide modern convenience in classic/tbc classic.

just some design touch ups that were improperly implemented, like the paladin seals which made one class almost worthless for one faction.
LW drums are another tumor of TBC, blizz developers back then definitely did not desire to see every competitive raider character go LWorking cause of 1 broken consumable.

[FelPlague]

Dual spec and faction/server transfers.
please and thanks!

faction transfers were introduced in tbc, so it makes sense that will be added, server transfers already exist.

[Ermelloth]

Id like achievements to start working in TBC as well

[Tsyplenk]

so respec then, it boggles my mind that people still hold onto this archaic notion that people didn't respec back in classic/TBC, i literally spent every piece of gold i earned from selling flasks/potions/transmute CD's that wasn't used for repairs on respecing my character over and over and over again when the need arose.

People also used to live in huts and fight off dinosaurs with spears, times change.

[Fkiolaris]

In actual TBC it was the cost. If you were a tank and wanted to farm as DPS or PVP as DPS the cost swiftly escalated to become pretty significant.

NOW... that was in the economy back then when 50 or 100g was a good amount of money. If a server economy makes that trivial, it's not a barrier. But for people who tanked or healed for their raids but wanted to be DPS off raid, yeah it was gold.

In case you weren't around during TBC... there were regularly crafting patterns that made gear that was highly desirable so people did in fact farm mats for those, so they weren't making gold from that farming.

Also, remember that arenas were a thing and you usually didnt want to do them as tank (not an issue for heals as much).

PS: Of course the other way to do 'dual spec' if they limit it to being done at the trainer is simply to adjust the respec costs so that it maxes out at something trivial like 10g.

I was in TBC (that's when I started), so I am well aware of what you are talking about and that's the reason I want dual spec in TBC- convenience. What Blizzard will do remains, I suspect they will try to cater to both crowds and end up not entirely pleasing anyone again in this respect.

Paid boosts are shitty, but literally have no impact and nothing to do with this. But in that case, seeing as you think the floodgate is opened because of paid boost which does literally nothing to the game mechanics, lets have LFR and LFG from retail in then.

I honestly wouldn't mind LFG if it's only for the same server (yeah I know, shoot the heretic), but I am not fussed about it. LFR is an entirely different kind of change to both LFG and dual spec and you know it well.

It doesn't defeat the purpose at all. The initial purpose was to be able to swap to a different spec in a pinch, or if you were a player who enjoyed different kinds of activities like raiding and PvP. It also helped healer main specs by having a DPS offspec to do daily quests or to farm out in the open world without having to swap between healer and DPS every single day paying the gold cost, rebuilding your talent trees, and updating your bars. It wasn't supposed to be freeform swapping on the fly per raid encounter back and forth. That's one reason why it should be at a trainer.

If you add it at the trainer, you are not changing anything at all. You still need to go to the trainer (with or without dual spec), you still need to interact with the trainer (with or without dual spec), and you still select via addon/Blizz interface the new talent load you want (with or without dual spec). So what is different exactly if you implement it this way? I don't know if I am missing something, but to me they seem exactly the same and thus, dual spec in this fashion would be redundant and a waste of dev time to implement. Feel free to correct anything I am misunderstanding.

[willtron]

I honestly wouldn't mind LFG if it's only for the same server (yeah I know, shoot the heretic), but I am not fussed about it. LFR is an entirely different kind of change to both LFG and dual spec and you know it well.

No no in your own word, its not in the spirit of the original, so we can add everything now - may as well make it retail but just TBC.

- - - Updated - - -

People also used to live in huts and fight off dinosaurs with spears, times change.

Which is why retail exists.

[Ringthane]

I remember how for years people cried out "Please give us servers that were just like they were when we all started playing in Vanilla - even though the vast majority of us probably didn't start playing until at least Wrath and maybe even later!!!!!!1"

And then Blizzard did just that. And from the day they gave players what they wanted, none of you has been able to come to any kind of consensus on what what they wanted actually was.

And you all wonder why Blizzard doesn't listen to its customers more often when designing the game.

[sensei]

People also used to live in huts and fight off dinosaurs with spears, times change.

So play Shadowlands?

[Lucetia]

You are already giving Seal Of Blood to Alliance Paladins, which is a HUGE change that didn’t happen till Wotlk (Seal Of Martyr) and since Dual Spec is also a Wotlk feature, might as well add it to TBC Classic.
#logicalchange

Difference is dual spec isn't needed at all. The reason they did the Seal change was to help with potential Balancing issues that could arise due to the seal since one was far more superior than the other one which would causes players who like that class to gravitate more towards that faction.

[Thunderball]

#nochanges is only kaput because of how much the community has complained about various parts of Classic, mainly spell batching. This is a slippery slope we brought on ourselves.

#nochanges is kaput because Blizzard decided that they're not going that route at all. There are no other factors in this. Any developer that lacks vision for their product and listens to people complaining should be the only side to blame.

[Lucetia]

Yes and character boosts! oh wait

Sure, why not. They've already ruined TBC. I can't see how dual spec is any worse than level boosts.

There are no level/character boosts. There is only one and the way it read it seems to be on Classic only realms. The purpose behind the boost itself is so you can start at 58/60 on the TBC server without having to start completely over, which you could if you wanted. Essentially it is there for those players who want to play both Classic and TBC and want to take their main over so they aren't "stranded" on Classic by needing to level up a new toon.

People are making the character boost out to be way bigger than it is. If you could buy multiple then sure there would be some problems with it, but considering it is a one time thing and that it is Classic to TBC so people aren't left having to relevel on one or the other because back then you didn't have to play a specific version because it didn't exist back then. The boost is there just to alleviate and act a a "pseudo" method to the leveling between the two expansions.

[Kralljin]

I think there should be some option for Arena, because let's be real, this is why most people want dual spec.

Dual spec as flexible as the Wotlk version was however, should not be added, the idea of that sort choice should still matter, people shouldn't be able to switch between specs on an encounter basis, like a Destro lock switching to Affliction for some council Encounter, or being able to readjust the number of healers on the fly.

Easiest solution would be able to swap in the preparation phase of Arena, but leaving the potential for abuse, maybe only being able to swap in capital cities (not Shattrath) and then slap a 10min+ "You cannot receive any summons" debuffs, so people can't just take a portal, respec and get summoned back.