American society & moderation or lack thereof

[Shadowferal]

Yeah...the whole "everthing is fine" crap was prated about a few years back...and then Trump became president. "But everything is fine..." And then everyone had to wear masks even as the country began shutting down and mass unemployment became the rule. "But everything is fine..." Texas says "hold my beer."

At this point it's about burying your head in the sand.. Pack that dirt in tight enough and maybe we'll all share a learning experience.

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This week in my comparative religion class we are talking about Buddhism. .

Add the timeframe, social structure... In some ways in my opinion, Buddhism had an appeal similar to Islam. India's caste system depended on living within the system eventually gaining a spiritual freedom. It pretty much kept people in their place. Buddhism was...in a way..a spiritual shortcut away from Hinduism. Such appealed to the lower castes...especially the poor.

[beanman12345]

Biased bullshit that completely ignores the growing poverty..and the widening gap between the few that have so much and the rest of the world that has so little.
I sometimes wonder why you post here..not one person has ever bought into your libertarian crap...

No need to wonder, it's masochism.

[kamuimac]

Yeah...the whole "everthing is fine" crap was prated about a few years back...and then Trump became president. "But everything is fine..." And then everyone had to wear masks even as the country began shutting down and mass unemployment became the rule. "But everything is fine..." Texas says "hold my beer."

At this point it's about burying your head in the sand.. Pack that dirt in tight enough and maybe we'll all share a learning experience.

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Add the timeframe, social structure... In some ways in my opinion, Buddhism had an appeal similar to Islam. India's caste system depended on living within the system eventually gaining a spiritual freedom. It pretty much kept people in their place. Buddhism was...in a way..a spiritual shortcut away from Hinduism. Such appealed to the lower castes...especially the poor.

and so does every single religion since beggining of civilisation .

"belive in deity X or Y while living in poverty in exchange for eternal happiness after death - work hard , live poor , dont expect anything on earth , let others exploitate you because after death you will be happy "

thats modus operandi of literaly ever single big religion out there.

the only base difference between religions is people beliving that their deity is supperior one compared to 126712536125 other deities people belive in .

the irony is that most of normal "priests" in each religions dont even belive in their own dieties - because they know the true nature of religions /shrug . of this excludes religious zealots .

people will never agree with this though - because they need the illusion that their lives must have some sort of higher purpose to function properly - accepting that their lives suck , will suck and one day will end and nothing will be there is way to scary for them . because it would mean that their "Suffering" (whtehr its monetary or sickness etc ) has no purpose, there will be never any justice of any sort (for example when they envy their neighbour and tell themselves that they will be the better ones in "next life" while he will have it worse to rationalise for example leaving in poverty etc ) . this would lead thm striaght to depression - so they escape into "magical thinking" (its well described psychological mechanism)

[minteK917]

Its simple, Capitalism sells things. If your entire system of life is about selling things, then consuming is what society will be about. I know uneducated people will bring up capitalism does invent stuff and all, but thats not really true if you research for a minute. Capitalism helps selling invented stuff, but it does not make the invention. If you track down most of human progress, it was done via Academia, Military, Space programs. All non capitalist ventures. Capitalism helps sells and market what these people do. Even in business, capitalism itself does nothing beside pay and market the work of academia. You think Elon musk ever designed a car in his life? No the thousands of engineers working for Telsa do, these people are simply academia, when ever Elon Musk or the Federal space program pays them to research and design stuff, is not important. We choose to be about sell and consume first and research only as a support for those endeavors. The consumering will eventually end in the material realm, when we become a more experience based economy over materialist economy, we are in fact getting close with younger generations deciding their time and capita is better spent on virtual or experience based entertainment over material. Which is what the "great reset" boogeyman website actually explains if you take the time to read it by saying: You will own nothing and love it.

[gaymer77]

Ahh seems to me america has a lot of moderation.....

sex at 18, alcohol at 21, life time in prison for recreational drug use especially if you are dark skinned.

That is ALOT higher than most countries.

And if you mean moderation as in amount of cookies and cream ice cream you have then yeah thats different.

Greed is good echo's from the 80s wall street and has never really left.

Except those things don't cause moderation in the consumption of the product. It just makes it illegal to do it. There are plenty of people who have sex before 18. There are plenty of people who drink alcohol before they turn 21 (I had my first drink & drunkenness when I was 14 at a party). There are plenty of people who smoke weed or use other drugs. The whole topic I brought up was the belief in how American's don't use moderation and how we are a society who indulges in things instead.

[kamuimac]

Except those things don't cause moderation in the consumption of the product. It just makes it illegal to do it. There are plenty of people who have sex before 18. There are plenty of people who drink alcohol before they turn 21 (I had my first drink & drunkenness when I was 14 at a party). There are plenty of people who smoke weed or use other drugs. The whole topic I brought up was the belief in how American's don't use moderation and how we are a society who indulges in things instead.

you cant really blame people for "escapism"

majority of people lead rather miserable unhappy lives. what is worse they dont have will to change anything

the only way they can stp thinking about it is by indulging themselves.

[Shadowferal]

majority of people lead rather miserable unhappy lives. what is worse they dont have will to change anything.

If we all started at the bottom you'd still be there.

[Grimbold21]

I get the point of tying moderation with capitalism, but at the same time the question is far more simple: is excessive consumption healthy? Is insufficient consumption healthy?

No, and the answer is in the middle.

This is mostly a materialistic issue cause excessive consumption is a symptom of an undefined moral framework, or ill defined

[omeomorfismo]

isnt like there are speculations and studies about how some protestant sect (calvinist? i dont remember) basically let the capitalism develop with their narrative that your personal success was tied with god's favor....

[Jonnusthegreat]

There's a huge difference in wanting something newer or bigger BECAUSE it's new or bigger (vanity, meaningless) and wanting something newer or bigger because it serves a purpose (utilitarian).

[Biglog]

It seems like many of these threads the OP has identified a problem but misidentified the real cause. Most of the time that's intentionally done for political reasons, but in this case it sounds more just someone that missed the mark. It's not about America or "moderation", the issues you complain about are by-products of *capitalism*. Capitalism is a system that can be very rewarding, but it also has it's flaws which most people in America know all too well.

By nature capitalism inherently drives greed and selfishness, since the goal is acquiring capital (wealth). And it also drives a very protectionist behavior where even if people have very little actual capital and live in a shack or a trailer in a mobile home park they treat their pile of property like Gollum and the ring. Likewise, the lower classes that can't afford to eat as well in a capitalist system end up eating cheaper food. In the 20th-21st century, cheap food is often the Dollar Menu from McD's, which isn't healthy food and adds to obesity. Capitalist food corporations push large portions of cheap calories for profit. There's more profit in a 32oz soda over a 8oz one. America also has no universal healthcare like nearly every other first world country, simply because the wealthy don't want to help offset the healthcare costs for the poorer classes. Again something adding to poor health. And a lot of the other issues in America from the education system and mental health treatment also aren't properly funded for the same greedy reasons that the wealthy who have acquired most of the capital are too selfish and greedy to be taxed to share it with the poor. Drugs, alcohol, and overeating in poor communities are used to escape the misery of their reality that they have little or no chance for escape from in our rigged system. So what we really saw from 2016-2020 especially was the depth of damage that this class greed and selfishness from 200 years of capitalism has done. Add things like Lori Laughlin cheating for the wealthy to get their own kids into good colleges, Trump massive tax breaks for millionaires and corporations, hedge funds and the public saying they'd had enough with GME, police treatment of minorities, etc. all are just icing on the cake for a public convinced that the wealthy have selfishly gerrymandered capitalism for the upper classes to retain their wealth and for the low and middle classes to stay right where they are.

Don't misinterpret this as well that I'm saying communism or another system is the answer. This isn't a binary thing where if one is bad that must mean the other is good, obviously communism failed. Just saying that capitalism may have survived over Soviet communism, but it doesn't mean it doesn't have it's issues. Capitalism can work, but it needs a level of evolution to keep the worst traits of humanity around selfishness and greed from being too prevalent. The easy example to explain why it is an issue is the Monopoly game. Monopoly is pretty fun...at first. But if you play it for 200 years and 1 small team of players has 98% of the properties and puts 4 hotels on all of them...it's not so fun anymore for the rest of the players sitting on Baltic Ave with $60. That's kind of where America is right now.

[kamuimac]

It seems like many of these threads the OP has identified a problem but misidentified the real cause. Most of the time that's intentionally done for political reasons, but in this case it sounds more just someone that missed the mark. It's not about America or "moderation", the issues you complain about are by-products of *capitalism*. Capitalism is a system that can be very rewarding, but it also has it's flaws which most people in America know all too well.

By nature capitalism inherently drives greed and selfishness, since the goal is acquiring capital (wealth). And it also drives a very protectionist behavior where even if people have very little actual capital and live in a shack or a trailer in a mobile home park they treat their pile of property like Gollum and the ring. Likewise, the lower classes that can't afford to eat as well in a capitalist system end up eating cheaper food. In the 20th-21st century, cheap food is often the Dollar Menu from McD's, which isn't healthy food and adds to obesity. Capitalist food corporations push large portions of cheap calories for profit. There's more profit in a 32oz soda over a 8oz one. America also has no universal healthcare like nearly every other first world country, simply because the wealthy don't want to help offset the healthcare costs for the poorer classes. Again something adding to poor health. And a lot of the other issues in America from the education system and mental health treatment also aren't properly funded for the same greedy reasons that the wealthy who have acquired most of the capital are too selfish and greedy to be taxed to share it with the poor. Drugs, alcohol, and overeating in poor communities are used to escape the misery of their reality that they have little or no chance for escape from in our rigged system. So what we really saw from 2016-2020 especially was the depth of damage that this class greed and selfishness from 200 years of capitalism has done. Add things like Lori Laughlin cheating for the wealthy to get their own kids into good colleges, Trump massive tax breaks for millionaires and corporations, hedge funds and the public saying they'd had enough with GME, police treatment of minorities, etc. all are just icing on the cake for a public convinced that the wealthy have selfishly gerrymandered capitalism for the upper classes to retain their wealth and for the low and middle classes to stay right where they are.

Don't misinterpret this as well that I'm saying communism or another system is the answer. This isn't a binary thing where if one is bad that must mean the other is good, obviously communism failed. Just saying that capitalism may have survived over Soviet communism, but it doesn't mean it doesn't have it's issues. Capitalism can work, but it needs a level of evolution to keep the worst traits of humanity around selfishness and greed from being too prevalent. The easy example to explain why it is an issue is the Monopoly game. Monopoly is pretty fun...at first. But if you play it for 200 years and 1 small team of players has 98% of the properties and puts 4 hotels on all of them...it's not so fun anymore for the rest of the players sitting on Baltic Ave with $60. That's kind of where America is right now.

most of stuff you desribe comes from unwillingness of all people to pay taxes.

the irony is its the poor who oppose taxes the most when in fact they benefit most from social programs.

also i wonder which "countries of 1st world" you mean which dont have free health care . name me 1 EU country that operates like this.

about health habits - thats just nonsense - its due to laziness of people that they choose to east in fast food joints. you can cook healthy and cheap . you just have to try a bit, aabout fitness ? you dont need gym memebership - you can eercise for free by doing stuff like jogging/calistenics - work out in those public outdoor gyms in summer etc etc

and about oportunities - you have atm unpararelled access to free knowledge thx to internet (and torrents yay for free academic books that normaly costs hundreds of $$$) and mandatory education systems. yet people choost to spend time watching netflix insteat learning new stuff and downloading new series to watch instead books to read from torrents . dont blame rich people for poor people's wrong life choices.

[breadisfunny]

yes let's blame poor people for not committing illegal acts to enrich themselves. LOL. yes torrenting is illegal.

[kamuimac]

yes let's blame poor people for not committing illegal acts to enrich themselves. LOL. yes torrenting is illegal.

depends on country's legislature

for example here its illegal to share torrents but its legal to download even if stuff you down is illegal itself you just cannot distribute it further.

also really ? show me 1 person who doesnt use torrents.

[Slant]

why are you bringing your school assignments to mmo-champion?

Maybe because he thought it was an interesting discussion? Are you dismissing the point just because it's homework?

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Yeah...the whole "everthing is fine" crap was prated about a few years back...and then Trump became president. "But everything is fine..." And then everyone had to wear masks even as the country began shutting down and mass unemployment became the rule. "But everything is fine..." Texas says "hold my beer."

At this point it's about burying your head in the sand.. Pack that dirt in tight enough and maybe we'll all share a learning experience.

Like how to get that sand out of your ears again?

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also really ? show me 1 person who doesnt use torrents.

The thing about torrents is that Netflix effectively demonstrated on how to shut that shit down instantly. Alas, US greed is the only true constant in all of this, and because they seem to think with their exlcusivity monopolies they can force us into paying 100 bucks a month for 10 different streaming services for one thing each... well, I ain't having that. But I'll still see whatever I want to see. When I want to see it. Their loss. Bunch of greedy fucks.

[Slant]

nope... they showed to companies that people will pay to access and then it suddenly became very inconvenient to keep track of several services because movies and series are so spread out over so many different services now... what series or movie is on which service... i'm not going to spend time scouring the different services after the movie or series i want to watch... then you've got the thing with not releasing it the same time across all regions even if the main one you use have the series or movie you want to watch it might not even exist in your region because fuck you...

That's not what happened with Netflix. It's not that people pay for "access". That's just buzzwords. What happened was that Netflix gave access to the entire catalogue at a flat price. Netflix has greatly decreased in value in that most studios pulled their shit to make it exlusive on their own bullshit not-understanding-netflix streaming services, because some retarded dipshit in the marketing department didn't understand that 10 bucks for the ENTIRE CATALOGUE is what pulled people into Netflix. Not 10 bucks for one, two series at the most.

And that is why people are going back to illegal torrents or streaming on questionable sites.

[Ashleyxoxo]

Honestly, it’s more intellectually impressive when someone has countless songs on their playlist than when they’re taking things “in moderation.”

[Shadowferal]

I like how the "Internet is free" I mean when did that happen? Comcast and Verizon would love to know...just exactly who these people are.

[kamuimac]

I like how the "Internet is free" I mean when did that happen? Comcast and Verizon would love to know...just exactly who these people are.

i pay for mine 9 euro a month . have 50 mb/s , more then i need. if i was really poor then i could just use internet i have in my mobile phone - its 20 GB a month for 6 euro . much more then enough for reading news / dl books .

for me yes its borderline free .

so yes its just excuse.

[Shadowferal]

so yes its just excuse.

Only In your country...
You don't speak for American society...y'know, the thread topic..