Flying tricked AGAIN

[Grand Warlock Phyrus]

thats one of the reasons that im only waiting for tbc and wotlk classic to release.

[Jujudrood]

Given the OP, no surprise the complaint or method of conveying it (which is to say, poorly).
I'm actually surprised the hate wasn't directed at the fact that you still need to use FPs to go from island to island.
I'm sure there's a thread (or several) out there about just that, but that's kind of what I expected the big takeaway to be.

But giving flying in 9.1 makes sense, and tying it into covenants makes sense.
It was kind of pointless to lock it behind reputations, especially with fresh ones like Legion and BFA, because it didn't make sense.
Like, my dragon forgot how to flap because mechagnomes don't like me enough?
Finish the storyline, get flight, trivialize WQs and emissaries that much more, that gives everyone more time to come back to the forum to pick a new topic to which they can direct their ire.

[catseye543]

Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.

You do realize that if the next expansion is designed for flying from the word go, the zones will just be bigger so that it takes you the same amount of time to get anywhere that it does now, right?

[letgoit]

sm0o0o0o0oth brain

[TheFirstOnes]

We're getting it before that, I thought. In 9.0.5? Totally agree with you on the whistle. Really annoying being stuck way out in Tirna Scithe, the far end of House of Plagues or Rituals, or Citadel of Loyalty, and having to slog your way back to civilization.

True. In regards to flying though, no. It's for 9.1, when you complete the new covenant story.

[baskev]

lol at your drama exaggeration. Does that not happen in the ground too? Yes, it does. I think you just have a problem with druids. I could get behind that, but it's just nonsense to blame it on flying overall.
Erm, no. Slowing down and getting bored does not, in fact, make me enjoy the world more.

Lol drama? its a opinion about how experience the game?
Yes and no. because of mobs, terrain etc it happens way less.
And no i am not blaming flying for all of it. I gave a list of reason people ( some of the reason i agree with) give in general against flying to soon in a expansion.
For you it is better like this. For me its better a patch later like patch x.1.
Everyone has their own opinion.

Cause you say so? You gonna have to do better than that. Leveling is 1% of what you do in the game (probably less). Check the privilege. WoW isn't about the leveling. It's just a short stepping stone. The game should not be designed with it in mind, but rather the 99% of the time you will spend at level cap.

Nope, my expierence and what people say in general ( not all people). Again 1 of the reasons. Not all of the reasons.

Yes, it does. Time/reward metric. Also, how old are you to not know the value of time? Time is the most precious resource we have. If it takes you less to do the same content, not only are you more engaged and less bored but you will gain time to spend on other activities. Really sightseeing the same place for the 1000th time doesn't have the same appeal as the first yeah? Surely you can see that.

Insults about age...for real? and hours a day are missed because you can not fly? And yes i agree to long without flying is bad. So if it comes sooner ( first major content patch) its fine.
And how much do you dislike the game that you need to rush thruh it. In your logic you have everything done right now. only raiding and pvp and mythic+ left etc. So flying does not help with that. the rest you can buy of the AH.

If you don't value time, then it is a you problem, not an us problem. But, you will, eventually. Like all of us.

I see you talking about leveling a lot. Seems to be your only excuse. Leveling is only relevant in the release weeks. No one actually does it much anymore after that. Indeed, people do dungeons and invasions cause it requires less traveling time and it's less boring. Glad you can actually see that despite refusing to concede the obvious point.

Not all of everyone. thats the whole point enough of us like it like this. Some like it , some do not. I happen to be one of the persons who likes it like this for a while.

It is not. or did you miss the whole getting nicked out of stuff to farm etc? or stuff to kill etc? or the reason blizzard gave? sidestepping those does not mean they do not exist. Those things do not matter to high end pvp and pve. you can all do that from oribos with the dungeon finder tool.


And still only thing you give as reason is time. Flying makes it faster. so do groups, and having a warlock to summon everyone. And doing it in groups ( the WQ etc). and if you have enough gold you can bypass it all.

Think you really do not understand what i am saying.
The list i gave are not all reasons i agree with. But ones i have seen ( and sometimes agree with) on several of these threads/hear ingame.
And i gave a opinion why i think its fine not to have it at launch with reasons. Not saying they are perfect or there is not a otherway to do it. just gave a reason why not. it also does not mean i think everyone thinks like me. Or everyone thinks you. Just giving my opinion.

[chaoticcrono]

Why? Cause you need to actually take time and navigate the zones before being able to fly in them?

because terrain thats purposely made to be tedious and annoying sux to deal with...

i dont have an issue with pathfinder, my issue is that i have to wait halfway through the fucking expansion for it to actually unlock.

Flying is just one of many issues i have with this game, because the devs dont respect my time and have completely ruined any continuity in this game i no longer have any reason to play it.

[Glorious Leader]

I disagree, expanding raids to ensure they cater to a whole spectrum of players show they favour that type of content for finishing story arcs, not particular groups of players.



Well done.



Already covered that,




It isn't removing it though. It's making it irrelevant for people playing the current crop of world content but it's still useful for people who still want to use it for sight-seeing, catching up and levelling alts. Back during WoD the devs did say they were going to remove flying altogether but their was quick backlash from people who had been content to wait for flying but definitely didn't want it to be removed altogether, so Blizz performed a rapid u-turn. You might think it's cowardice (and your silly attack is acknowledged for what it is, very silly,) but ultimately that was the compromise that ensured that the devs could make content the way they wanted while still allowing some of the benefits and enjoyable aspects of flying.

Story arcs can be written for literaly any form of content. Raids are not the only or even necessarily the best way to present stories. The fact that they do is just more evidence that the developers are expressly priveleging one group of players. This was of course even more egregious in the past but business demands basically forced them to reconsider.

You covered it... by arguing the developers favor one group of players over another. Well done. Maybe you should consider reading what you write first.

Their is very little difference between removing flying and making flying useless for current content and even more difficult to obtain. Aside from theat fact I'm not sure why anybody needs to compromise with the developers, but calling it one is pathetic.

If I want to navigate your shitty mazes on the ground I will choose to do so. Forcing my hand by effectively removing a feature is not a compromise.

[chaoticcrono]

It is not. argus was end game content like patch x.3
This is patch x.1 so that is 2 whole patches sooner.

Also tricked means they somehow made you believe things otherwise. They never stated anything close to this. They said they will take a look at it. 2 patches sooner AND easy to get is a big upgrade. x.1 patch is okay for me, the easy to get part not. should be a bit harder.

And it should NOT be there at the start. Many people have giving reasons why. Including blizzard.
- dive bombing quests ( makes questing less fun)
- dive bombing rare's less change to kill them
- dive bomb chests etc
- dive bomb mats.
- will make the large group multibox and multibox-bot problem even worse. ( low/medium servers seem to have more of them these days). ( no problem with small group multiboxxing)
- less challaging
- and blizzard has stated. That it takes a lot of time and money to craft these worlds. why make them if everyone is going to fly over them.


And you shouting they MUST. without giving valid points or any reason at all does not help you.
So why, why should they add it?

fun is subjective... if running through a dozen mobs to get to a quest was fun maybe people wouldn't try to skip it.

its almost as though tedious time wasting bullshit isnt fun... hence why people try to skip it.

[anon5123]

Admittedly, though, that was the only time you could do it right from the start.

That's my point, yes. Cata was the only time you could fly right from the start. And it turned out to be a terrible idea because it completely invalidated a majority of the ground in each zone; you could just fly over anything that wasn't a quest giver or a quest objective area.

That's why Blizzard keeps restricting flying to the first x.1 patch in each expac, so that you cannot just ignore the ground. You have to ride around on the ground for a few months before you can start flying and skipping over everything.

[Martymark]

You go to a crap sandwich restaurant for 15 years, and every day they give you a crap sandwich.

Why are you surprised they just served you another crap sandwich?

[chaoticcrono]

That's my point, yes. Cata was the only time you could fly right from the start. And it turned out to be a terrible idea because it completely invalidated a majority of the ground in each zone; you could just fly over anything that wasn't a quest giver or a quest objective area.

That's why Blizzard keeps restricting flying to the first x.1 patch in each expac, so that you cannot just ignore the ground. You have to ride around on the ground for a few months before you can start flying and skipping over everything.

Did you ever consider that people skip the ground cuz they dont find it fun?

Seriously just let people fly and those of you who want to walk everywhere can still do that without taking flying away from everyone else.

[sirmalta]

Its not a trick when they've done it for 3 expansions, and explained it from the start.

Also, flying sucks and ruins the game. If you dont like running around the world, then why play this game?

[Myradin]

Storm Peaks was a zone that really did a good job of making flying a part of exploration, it just makes a bad argument as the zone right after it used flying to remove any sense of threat and make the final zone of WotLK a huge anti-climax.

I'd say it did the opposite, it made ice crown feel so dangerous that the alliance and horde couldn't properly set foot in it, that the only way to strike it was through targeted deep strikes exploiting a weakness in icecrown's defences. The only major ground assault (before argent tourney) was completely wrecked. Even the argent tourney then had you presumably flying around to make strikes, because a proper ground assault wasn't feasible.

Unlike other expacs were we can pretty much walk up to the big bad's gates right at the start.

[Argorwal]

The densest thing is I was looking on my map thinking "I know there's a lift near that little house but I can't see any symbol for it."

I’ll admit it took me way longer than it should have to realize those are elevators.

[Myradin]

How quickly most forget.

MoP wasn't entirely limited to those two islands though. Story quests still largely used the main continent, MoP's world still stayed somewhat revelant thanks to the world bosses and farm stuff. Catch-up wasn't as efficient back then either, so doing non-island stuff was still useful for alts too.

[Dhrizzle]

Story arcs can be written for literaly any form of content. Raids are not the only or even necessarily the best way to present stories. The fact that they do is just more evidence that the developers are expressly priveleging one group of players. This was of course even more egregious in the past but business demands basically forced them to reconsider.

'cos it's actually quite cool to have a raid finishing off a story arc, what sucks is not being able to participate because you don't have the time/skill/inclination, and that's a problem largely solved by LFR.

You covered it... by arguing the developers favor one group of players over another. Well done. Maybe you should consider reading what you write first.

They cater to all sorts of players. You could argue they favour solo/open-world players by forcing you to grind Stygia. You could argue they favour 5-man players by sticking legendaries behind Torghast or due to the quality of Mythic gear. You could argue they favour PvPers by making arenas a quick way of gearing. Or you could look at the whole and realise they're constantly trying to balance keeping all types of players happy, making them feel their playstyle is rewarding without making others feel pointless.

Their is very little difference between removing flying and making flying useless for current content and even more difficult to obtain. Aside from theat fact I'm not sure why anybody needs to compromise with the developers, but calling it one is pathetic.

There is an absolutely massive difference, that being that with the current system you can still fly. You can take your main out to see the sights, you can level alts and catch up with bits of content you've missed. You might always stay on the cutting edge of world content, never ever go back and never level alts but even as someone who much prefers the way content is developed with no-flying in mind I appreciate being able to play through on easy-mode when it comes to alts.

If I want to navigate your shitty mazes on the ground I will choose to do so. Forcing my hand by effectively removing a feature is not a compromise.

If you don't like open world content maybe don't play those parts... or are open world players too favoured with rewards so you feel forced to?

[plz delete account]

Once again flying will only be unlocked for already outdated content while being unavailable in the Maw and Korthia. This is Argus all over again. Next expansion MUST have flying in from the START and it must be usable EVERYWHERE.

"This is Argus all over again"

Always has been. While I've enjoyed the challenge, glad they've announced I'll be able to mount up in the Maw.

[SirCowdog]

That's my point, yes. Cata was the only time you could fly right from the start. And it turned out to be a terrible idea because it completely invalidated a majority of the ground in each zone; you could just fly over anything that wasn't a quest giver or a quest objective area.

That's why Blizzard keeps restricting flying to the first x.1 patch in each expac, so that you cannot just ignore the ground. You have to ride around on the ground for a few months before you can start flying and skipping over everything.

Annnnd....still repeating the same wrong lessons learned from that.

The problem isn't that players were skipping past ground content. It's that the ground content that's there is so bereft of anything of interest or value....that players don't WANT to interact with it.

Forcing players to interact with content they aren't interested is what Pathfinder is, and is everything wrong with the current design philosophy of the open world.

[MasterOfNone]

"I disagree with the argument given, so I'm going to declare it dead and disproven so I win the argument and Blizzard is wrong and bad." Am I doing it right?

i guess you missed the part where it was explained. you've clearly missed the thousands of pages and dozens of threads that disprove this as well. you are the real mvp bro.