This expansion showcased how people do not enjoy m+ at all

[huth]

Both mechanics they added this xpac make M+ really terrible if you are a melee.. its only fun if you are healing/tanking or ranged. Melee got shafted big time for M+ this xpac.

But having mechanics that only affect ranged is all fine and dandy? Quit your whining. You're not being singled out, you're just being brought to par.

[arkanon]

But having mechanics that only affect ranged is all fine and dandy? Quit your whining. You're not being singled out, you're just being brought to par.

I think generally speaking mechanics that force a range character to move a few steps to one side, but force a melee player to run out and disengage until the tank moves the mob or the threat from the mechanic is gone, those are a pain in the ass for melee. But range tend to have a lot of "stand here, move here, move to this player, link with this player" and typically, at least how we play, if there is a "2 players have to come together" mechanic, we expect a linked range player to move to the melee so they can both continue dpsing - so yea,h overall i think it mostly balances out.

Since day 1 there have been mechanics that punish melee more than range, and some that punish range more than melee.

[Ehrenpanzer]

WoW is, and has always been a loot-driven game. Just like any other MMORPG since the beginning of time.

Remove loot and see how many people stick around.

Which is the truly shocking part.. that the Devs at Blizz dont seem to understand what a gear treadmill game is.

[csguba]

I thoroughly enjoy m+ with friends, not so much pugging. I'd say maybe half the dungeons I do each week I don't enjoy that much but I do for the gear admittedly from the vault. I'm not sure that's the game's fault though but rather the community.

[Argorwal]

Sure, but it did that before too, just now it's much harder. Caught everyone totally by surprise and people who were hoping to do it are discovering they can't.

I guess there are differences of opinion, but not timing a +14 for a 226 item in the chest is a world apart in difficulty than going 3/10 mythic.

Trying to pug mythic huntsman or artificer compared to not even timing a +14?

And to thing BFA and Legion were even easier really highlights to me how easy mythic+ has been relative to raiding for the same gear.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

But that they enjoy the loot it gives.

In BfA you could reach Mythic level of gear by just doing a weekly +15. People were so used to easy gearing like that, that they cry about it this expansion.
People do not enjoy m+ for the content it brings, they solely enjoy to do it because of the loot it gives.

Only a small minority seems to enjoy m+ so much, the rest only cares about the gear.
So many people crying that the gear isn't a high enough ilvl and that it's not often dropped.

I thought that people enjoyed this content regardless? I thought m+ was fun? What happened?

This expansion showcased how still after over 15 years people who do not have a clue what is going on think they need to open threads on message boards and post random bs threads like this one. Just because people complain about shitty gearing system, like pvp dudes did in bfa and in sl beta, does not mean they do not have fun playing the content. Hard to grasp for someone like you who is living in his own little opinion bubble huh?

[Deadmedic]

Challenging content is only worth it if there is a reward. This is a fact. Name One single challenging thing that doesn't provide some sort of measurable reward that many ppl do.

[xero5141]

What silly logic, if you took loot out of the game and there were no loot drops, no gear to upgrade, no anything. Would people play? Probably not. Does that mean they don't enjoy the content?

[Ausr]

Thank you for showing the evidence that people don't enjoy M+ at all.

[csguba]

Challenging content is only worth it if there is a reward. This is a fact. Name One single challenging thing that doesn't provide some sort of measurable reward that many ppl do.

I'm not sure you've thought this through, as people do challenging content all the time only for the benefit of self improvement such as beating a personal best. Yes this is a reward in itself but your argument speaks to an actual item reward in this case being loot.

People that do speed runs don't do it for loot, people pushing high keys, etc etc. It won't be the majority of the player base but it does exist.

[kevincuomo]

But having mechanics that only affect ranged is all fine and dandy? Quit your whining. You're not being singled out, you're just being brought to par.

It's pretty obvious by your comment you have no idea what you are talking about so ill just ignore it and let you keep being bad.

[sykoex]

Interesting observation. Maybe they should remove all loot from the game for a month or so and see what activities players ACTUALLY enjoy doing.

[Doffen]

The sole reason why I do m+ is because its fun. Loot is just a bonus.

[Yriel]

Challenging content is only worth it if there is a reward. This is a fact. Name One single challenging thing that doesn't provide some sort of measurable reward that many ppl do.

Amateur sports?
Just look at the olympic games, most people there don't get anything out of it and train very hard every day of their lives.

[Chickat]

Honestly, I wish they would just get rid of the timer. Its stressful. Get rid of the annoying affixes. Make really hard dungeons. Have a timer mode for cosmetics and leaderboards. Imagine if Mythic dungeons were just like Cata launch heroics but even harder. CC,no chain aoe packs. Back to basics hard dungeons from a previous era. Thats what I want.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Amateur sports?
Just look at the olympic games, most people there don't get anything out of it and train very hard every day of their lives.

They get a life style where they are paid by their country to do nothing but sports, which they hopefully like. Also an olympic delegation consists of what? 100 people per country? Not exactly something "alot" of people do. What you described is the MDI.

[Yriel]

They get a life style where they are paid by their country to do nothing but sports, which they hopefully like. Also an olympic delegation consists of what? 100 people per country? Not exactly something "alot" of people do. What you described is the MDI.

But it's not a great reward. It's a normal payment that they can live from, nothing more. I bet that none of them starts with their sport to get this (in the case of germany) mediocre paid police job that allows them to spend most of their time training. They probably do it because it's their passion. It's not like you can make a gold medal in short-put or walking or dressage riding or pistol shooting or stuff like that to money or fame.
There is no great reward for them yet their challenge is quite great..

And the olympic games were just an example, there are sports tournaments/world cups all the time (and i'm not talking about football/soccer, i'm talking about field hockey or riding or rowing), no one in the public really cares. Yet people still compete at the highest level without any rewards aside from feelings of accomplishments.

[Vitinariy]

You mad bro? ) M+ is the only reason for me to still play this game. It's by far the best way to play with friends.

[Stardrift]

M+ is drop dead easy. It's the community itself of overglorified LFR raiders who make it hard.

Run it with any competent guild. It's a cake walk. The loot very obviously does not match the effort required, and with 9.0.5, they are yet again trivializing mid tier raid progression with overrewarding M+.

Why is it that heroic raids give the appropriate ilvl rewards for it's easy difficulty, yet M+ is overrewarding?

[Nyel]

Honestly, I wish they would just get rid of the timer. Its stressful. Get rid of the annoying affixes. Make really hard dungeons. Have a timer mode for cosmetics and leaderboards. Imagine if Mythic dungeons were just like Cata launch heroics but even harder. CC,no chain aoe packs. Back to basics hard dungeons from a previous era. Thats what I want.

Yep, this.

Cata Heroics were fun because CC mattered. Healer mana mattered. DPS had to do more than just AOE everything down asap.