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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Why wouldn't it? So far every new content patch with ilvl increase have resulted in higher ilvl catch up mechanics...
    What was BFA's way of "catching-up" to, let's say, 8.2 content? Doing tons of WQs with +5 ilvl rewards? Yeah, there was Benthic gear. But you needed to do hard 8.2 content in order to obtain it. And you still needed to grind 20 (or 30?) levels of heart and grind reps for essences in order to fully catch-up. It just wasn't possible to do it on many characters. I personally managed to fully catch-up only on one character.

    P.S. I've completed all Bolvar's quest and hit some gating again. I've earned 0 Renown. I don't hate overall pace of catching up. It's good. I hate that gaps, where I log in and have nothing to do. It was much better back in WOD, when I knew, that 5 Tanaan "WQs" were guaranteed to be up every day.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-02-12 at 01:23 PM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    That's why Valor gear was such a great system. It wasn't the most exciting system from a design perspective but it kept us playing whole patches by drip feeding us gear. Going to the vendor and buying that piece of armor you had worked towards felt great.
    I'd prefer it to be combined with imegated BOP crafting in some way but then you're pretty much forced to run your armor class profession plus jewelcrafting.

    The problem with the current reward structure is that if you don't do premade group content it just ends and it doesn't even feel rewarding getting there. They really screwed over the casual playerbase this expansion.
    But...the problem im saying is still there.
    The supposed fact players lose interest when there is no progression system.

    Valor points is a new progression system...to fix the problem im saying.
    "players lose interest when there is no progression system"

    Is the fix to "no progression"....to add a new system of rewards?
    It just feels like a bandaid.

    But this is the MMO's we know since forever...but im the crazy guy who speaks about "evergreen content" and "sandbox".
    Which is easy to say but hard to implement...because no one has ever done it before...with great success
    Last edited by Roanda; 2021-02-12 at 02:50 PM.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    But...the problem im saying is still there.
    The supposed fact players lose interest when there is no progression system.

    Valor points is a new progression system...to fix the problem im saying.
    "players lose interest when there is no progression system"

    Is the fix to "no progression"....to add a new system of rewards?
    It just feels like a bandaid.

    But this is the MMO's we know since forever...but im the crazy guy who speaks about "evergreen content" and "sandbox".
    Which is easy to say but hard to implement...because no one has ever done it before...with great success
    There can't be such thing as evergreen content imo.
    1) logic (ok, my logic) says it should be crazy expensive. Quality = expensive
    2) HUGE risk. Expensive + risk? -> probably no thanks
    3) It must be good for most players because you want long engagement. Again: risky
    4) if you do such thing, then you release an update, which must be the same quality, then players will have double the chores probably.

    There's a couple more reasons probably why it couldn't work in a living game with box price AND sub.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Flying is going to be really strange in SL. I mean you are still going to have to FP though Orbie to travel between zones right? The zones are heavily littered with FPs so you can almost just land within seconds of where you are going. In the end I think it's only serious value will be to travel to WQs that are less useful than ever? Maybe shorten travel time to an instance by a few seconds? I think it's gonna be werid.
    the zones are in no way "heavily littered with FPs". And WQs are deliberately placed far away from the FPs in a lot of cases in such a way that two FPs are almost equally far from the WQ which wouldn't happen by random. They love using travel time as a way to increase their metrics. There is no reason whatsoever for the upper level of oribos to exist. none - it just steals player time in tiny increments, just like the fucking run across the vindicar in legion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Can you confirm, that Bolvar's quests grant Renown? 4 quests in a row = 0 Renown.
    They don't. That info is out there on the internet but i just levelled my first 60 a month or so ago and at no point did those quests grant a renown.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    I dont know if im depressed or something but i feel like nothing really matters and people will never be happy with the game by their own fault.

    WoW gameplay is nothing more than a "punching bag with meaning and purpose" (mobs to kill with a reward and progression system)
    And what happens when you "finish" your reward structure and progression? You are back to having no meaning and purpose to your punching bag.

    So...

    I think this means...the journey is the most important part...together with the sense of acomplishment of completing said journey...and then...GAME OVER

    -----

    The problem i still see is that players are NEVER happy about the gameplay if they dont have a progression system/reward.
    Can WoW be played as if it was a League of Legends or a Call of Duty?
    It seems that for the people complaining...it CANT (for them)

    -----

    I personally reached the conclusion nothing really matters and you better start enjoying the small things in MMORPGs.
    For me is "roleplaying" and doing stupid crap with friends or people you met ingame.
    Starting with the assumption that a video game will provide meaning and purpose is problem number one.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    Starting with the assumption that a video game will provide meaning and purpose is problem number one.
    Not purpose in life
    Purpose to your login session

    Isnt it true almost no one plays for fun when there is zero progression systems.

    WoW is just a big progression simulator. Which is not bad...i just think maybe the future is a "meaning and purpose" to login...but without it being gear.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Not purpose in life
    Purpose to your login session

    Isnt it true almost no one plays for fun when there is zero progression systems.

    WoW is just a big progression simulator. Which is not bad...i just think maybe the future is a "meaning and purpose" to login...but without it being gear.
    All games have progression. Levels, hands, wins, score/high score, clear time. There is always progression if you look for it. The common denominator between games is fun / enjoyment. I don't know a single person who plays a game they get no enjoyment from, but I know a lot of people who play games without story / gear progression in the game they play and enjoy.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    You can get CE lying on the floor dead every fight. If you think that 96 worth of secondary is optional you are not someone I want to raid with.
    Well 96 of secondaries is about 130dps in my gear. So 6100 to 6230 isnt a game changing difference. And you get some sockets by accident anyways...

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    the zones are in no way "heavily littered with FPs". And WQs are deliberately placed far away from the FPs in a lot of cases in such a way that two FPs are almost equally far from the WQ which wouldn't happen by random. They love using travel time as a way to increase their metrics. There is no reason whatsoever for the upper level of oribos to exist. none - it just steals player time in tiny increments, just like the fucking run across the vindicar in legion.
    You seem upset. I agree with upper Oribos, just seems strange. Along with the mounting restrains in a lot of it. I am not sure if we get the same WQ but I usually mount up and and am to it in like less than a minute. I might just have had a streak of 2-3 months of great luck though. I am also confused what this has to do with why flying will be strange or not with how you have to pass though Oribos to get to each zone. Maybe you just needed a soapbox or something. To each their own.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by MatPandaZ View Post
    Player interaction is up higher than ever. The player retention is higher than ever for this point in a new expansion. You have the problem, the majority doesn't.
    I do agree that the expansion is kind of a success, with great numbers to it, but let's not forget the days we live in, where confinement leads to extra time at home, and pc games\sub services are the entertainment choices, it's not solely due to the quality of the expansion.

    Most 'popular' titles are all having huge surges in player retention and peak numbers. Same goes for Netflix subscribers, online shopping, etc.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    They don't. That info is out there on the internet but i just levelled my first 60 a month or so ago and at no point did those quests grant a renown.
    This isn't first time, when WowHead spreads such misinformation. At some point I even started to suspect, that Blizzard pay them for such misinformation, so players waste their time in game more.

    I've got sick of this "hidden" mechanics. I don't even understand, why governments still allow devs to make games with such vague rules. I try to get Renown for 3rd day in a row. No Renown for callings. No Renown for 5ppls. Chances to get Renown - unknown. Is there some sort of time gated CD on Renown - unknown. Will I get Renown for doing next 5ppl - unknown. Unknown, unknown, unknown.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What is wrong with this Renown catch-up system? I mean, when you actually manage to get that last Renown level from 5ppl (i.e. from some other source, than weekly) and unlock Covenant chapter, quest doesn't appear in your Covenant sanctum for a long time.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    This isn't first time, when WowHead spreads such misinformation. At some point I even started to suspect, that Blizzard pay them for such misinformation, so players waste their time in game more.

    I've got sick of this "hidden" mechanics. I don't even understand, why governments still allow devs to make games with such vague rules. I try to get Renown for 3rd day in a row. No Renown for callings. No Renown for 5ppls. Chances to get Renown - unknown. Is there some sort of time gated CD on Renown - unknown. Will I get Renown for doing next 5ppl - unknown. Unknown, unknown, unknown.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What is wrong with this Renown catch-up system? I mean, when you actually manage to get that last Renown level from 5ppl (i.e. from some other source, than weekly) and unlock Covenant chapter, quest doesn't appear in your Covenant sanctum for a long time.
    Can you link your character?

    Because pretty much anyone else I’ve talked to on the forums or in game have a completely different take on renown catchup and talk about how fast it is.

    But you keep talking about how you can’t get caught up.

  12. #272
    I guess, Blizzard have made mistake with Renown catch-up. They give Renown from many sources, but at the same they time-gate it in order to slow you down and prevent Renown from being farmable.

    Overall pace is good. 2 weeks per character on average. But I personally would prefer more stable progression instead of constantly getting stuck and have nothing to do. Again, mains should be in "maintenance" mode. That's ok now, because I only need to complete weeklies on them. But current character should provide something to do on daily basis.

    May be later, when we will have more Renown levels, this problem will be fixed.

    P.S. My sub runs out today and I no longer play this game. I won't play it at least till 9.1. But I'm afraid, that it will be 9.0.5 in March, 9.1 in May + another 40 time-gated Renown levels, that will take another 4 months to complete, resulting in 10 months since release, when flying will be available. And as Renown has catch-up mechanism this time, it would be better to just wait for that 10 months and then catch-up and play normally.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-02-15 at 05:15 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    200 is kinda the baseline for casuals to reach.
    195'ish item level, is the baseline for casuals. Which is where you get with world content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    Can you link your character?

    Because pretty much anyone else I’ve talked to on the forums or in game have a completely different take on renown catchup and talk about how fast it is.

    But you keep talking about how you can’t get caught up.
    Renown DOES have a speed bump, the drop rate is slightly reduced when you're 2 levels behind the cap, else, it is so damn fast to catch up - a bit too fast at times I would think.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  14. #274
    Overall major problems with SL continue and I even start regretting buying it, because it really looks like "SL is better than BFA" statement was nothing but aggressive marketing.

    Problems are:
    1) No fixes planned for current content both in 9.0.5 and 9.1. "Anima rewards are xpack-wide" is just plain BS. Everything beyond 3-4 weeks of grind isn't worth doing, sorry. It's the same problem, we had in BFA, where grind was so long, that rewards were becoming obsoleted before I could get them. I don't care about M+ and mythic raids, because I don't do them.
    2) 9.1 and flying is delayed too much again. Something like 8-10 months since release isn't acceptable for me. There is nothing to do for me in game till that time.
    3) No new content for me in 9.1, except getting flying after several months of extra renown levels grind and continuing to level new alts to get obsoleted rewards.

    This makes me want to wait till 9.2 or something like that. And waiting for so long to get actual content makes me think, if buying SL is actually worth it?
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-02-23 at 11:02 AM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Overall major problems with SL continue and I even start regretting buying it, because it really looks like "SL is better than BFA" statement was nothing but aggressive marketing.

    Problems are:
    1) No fixes planned for current content both in 9.0.5 and 9.1. I don't care about M+ and mythic raids, because I don't do them.
    2) 9.1 and flying is delayed too much again. Something like 8-10 months since release isn't acceptable for me.
    3) No new content for me in 9.1, except getting flying after several months of extra renown levels grind and continuing to level new alts to get obsoleted rewards.

    This makes me want to wait till 9.2 or something like that. And waiting for so long to get actual content makes me think, if buying SL is actually worth it?
    With a username like yours, and dozens of started threads describing how you dont like wow, id say its time for you to move onto a new game. But secretly I think you enjoy making threads like this more than you'd enjoy actually playing any games.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Overall major problems with SL continue and I even start regretting buying it, because it really looks like "SL is better than BFA" statement was nothing but aggressive marketing.

    Problems are:
    1) No fixes planned for current content both in 9.0.5 and 9.1. "Anima rewards are xpack-wide" is just plain BS. Everything beyond 3-4 weeks of grind isn't worth doing, sorry. It's the same problem, we had in BFA, where grind was so long, that rewards were becoming obsoleted before I could get them. I don't care about M+ and mythic raids, because I don't do them.
    2) 9.1 and flying is delayed too much again. Something like 8-10 months since release isn't acceptable for me. There is nothing to do for me in game till that time.
    3) No new content for me in 9.1, except getting flying after several months of extra renown levels grind and continuing to level new alts to get obsoleted rewards.

    This makes me want to wait till 9.2 or something like that. And waiting for so long to get actual content makes me think, if buying SL is actually worth it?
    So there is a lot of content but you just refuse to do it?

    Tell me what the fuck did you do in previous expansions lmao

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Cazze View Post
    So there is a lot of content but you just refuse to do it?

    Tell me what the fuck did you do in previous expansions lmao
    What I don't like - isn't content. I don't have to do all things in game, just because they exist.

    And Blizzard started to show their real face. For example they say, that catch-up gear is bad, because players ignore all other gear. What gear? That almost non-existent gear from WQs and 5ppls? And what will they do? Remove catch-up gear? So, just bring us back to BFA with it's random +5 ilvl from WQs? Go to hell, Blizzard. You stated, that SL was better, than BFA. And BFA was the worst xpack ever made. Returning back to it is suicide.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-02-23 at 12:01 PM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    What I don't like - isn't content. I don't have to do all things in game, just because they exist.

    And Blizzard started to show their real face. For example they say, that catch-up gear is bad, because players ignore all other gear. What gear? That almost non-existent gear from WQs and 5ppls? And what will they do? Remove catch-up gear? So, just bring us back to BFA with it's random +5 ilvl from WQs? Go to hell, Blizzard. You stated, that SL was better, than BFA. And BFA was the worst xpack ever made. Returning back to it is suicide.
    You don't have to, but you also don't get to complain when you don't want to participate in 70% of the content.

    What about catch up gear? You have pvp/campaign/wq to get to ilvl 200. After that, you can't blame blizzard for not giving you gear meant for higher content.

    And ffs if you can do a 5 man dungeon, you can do a +2,+3,+4,+5 without even trying.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Cazze View Post
    You don't have to, but you also don't get to complain when you don't want to participate in 70% of the content.
    Blizzard reduced the PVE endgame content more and more, thats the problem. Now there is literally only M+ and heroic+ raiding left.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cazze View Post
    And ffs if you can do a 5 man dungeon, you can do a +2,+3,+4,+5 without even trying.
    Maybe timed dungeons are just not fun for him? Why would he do something he doesn't have fun doing?
    There was a time where heroic dungeons were the dungeon endgame. I liked that time better.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Cazze View Post
    You don't have to, but you also don't get to complain when you don't want to participate in 70% of the content.

    What about catch up gear? You have pvp/campaign/wq to get to ilvl 200. After that, you can't blame blizzard for not giving you gear meant for higher content.

    And ffs if you can do a 5 man dungeon, you can do a +2,+3,+4,+5 without even trying.
    Simple thing. This game is extremely time-consuming. I've been playing this game for 2 months. I set super-casual minimal possible goals in this game. And even with this minimal goals I started to play this game so much, that my health really started to suffer from hypodynamia. I started to feel mental fatigue, low blood pressure, blood circulation problems. Do you understand, that sitting for several hours in front of your computer = harm to your health? When I play my ordinal Steam games, I usually play for 3-4 hours a day + little bit more on weekends. But I started to play much more to achieve this super-casual goals in Wow. I'll tell you big secret. I even started to do, what I usually don't do. I started to play during my free time on my work. My work time is unrationed. I.e. sometimes I'm very busy, but sometimes I have free time. And what have I achieved? I've leveled just 4 characters to 60 (one of them from scratch), got 23 renown level on them and around 170ilvl. That's it.

    And I just can't do things faster. Because they're designed to be time-consuming. They take time and I just physically can't do them more quickly. It's like when things are easy on paper and your boss on your work tells you to do things quickly, but software installer says NO - it takes, let's say, 10 minutes per computer and just REFUSES to do it faster, no matter what you do. So, if you need to install this soft on, let's say, 30 computers, this will inevitably take 5 hours, not lesser. Same here. You do quest, some dialog appears, you can't skip it. Or you need to get from point A to point B and it takes 5 minutes no matter what.

    Do you understand, how much more would I be required to play, if I would want to play more hardcore? For example, if I would want to grind more anima to get covenant transmogs and upgrades? I.e. not standard 1k anima per week, but all possible anima, I could get. I don't even talk about spending anima on running mission table. I would be required to play 24/7. Do you understand, that only job-less people can do it?

    And devs aren't even satisfied by game time, I spend in their game. How can they be so sadist? Where are my old WotLK/Cata times, when it was about "We don't care, how you play our game, if you still pay us your $15"?
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2021-02-23 at 12:58 PM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

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