New major problem with current direction of development

[ClassicPeon]

SNIP

Its always the same with you isnt it.

its always negative

Its always hard to understand because you arent very good at getting your points across

And you are always trying to speak for other people instead of just speaking for yourself, even though almost all your threads/posts ends up with the far majority disagreeing with you

[ReVnX]

2) 9.1 and flying is delayed too much again. Something like 8-10 months since release isn't acceptable for me. There is nothing to do for me in game till that time.

It is never going to be earlier than that again, so you can forget about WoW once and for all and move on with your life.

[Ealyssa]

Blizzard reduced the PVE endgame content more and more, thats the problem. Now there is literally only M+ and heroic+ raiding left.

What other PVE endgame content existed in other expansion at release ?

[Raetary]

And even with this minimal goals I started to play this game so much

Ye no, sorry.
I don't buy it.

I played the game relatively casually when my sub was rubbing.
About 1-2 hours per day depending on what i wanted to do and still managed to keep up with everyone and everything going forward around me.

There is absolutely nothing in the game currently that forces you to play more than that if you are playing very casually.
The weekly stuff can be spread throughout the week, the daily stuff can be done in about 20-30 minutes tops.

And keeping up with renown isn't an issue as you can just regain the missed weeks by doing literally anything the game has to offer in the weeks that follow.

And I just can't do things faster.

Then fucking don't.
Nobody is forcing you to.

You are the only one that is doing so.

[ellieg]

Simple thing. This game is extremely time-consuming. I've been playing this game for 2 months. I set super-casual minimal possible goals in this game. And even with this minimal goals I started to play this game so much, that my health really started to suffer from hypodynamia. I started to feel mental fatigue, low blood pressure, blood circulation problems. Do you understand, that sitting for several hours in front of your computer = harm to your health? When I play my ordinal Steam games, I usually play for 3-4 hours a day + little bit more on weekends. But I started to play much more to achieve this super-casual goals in Wow. I'll tell you big secret. I even started to do, what I usually don't do. I started to play during my free time on my work. My work time is unrationed. I.e. sometimes I'm very busy, but sometimes I have free time. And what have I achieved? I've leveled just 4 characters to 60 (one of them from scratch), got 23 renown level on them and around 170ilvl. That's it.

And I just can't do things faster. Because they're designed to be time-consuming. They take time and I just physically can't do them more quickly. It's like when things are easy on paper and your boss on your work tells you to do things quickly, but software installer says NO - it takes, let's say, 10 minutes per computer and just REFUSES to do it faster, no matter what you do. So, if you need to install this soft on, let's say, 30 computers, this will inevitably take 5 hours, not lesser. Same here. You do quest, some dialog appears, you can't skip it. Or you need to get from point A to point B and it takes 5 minutes no matter what.

Do you understand, how much more would I be required to play, if I would want to play more hardcore? For example, if I would want to grind more anima to get covenant transmogs and upgrades? I.e. not standard 1k anima per week, but all possible anima, I could get. I don't even talk about spending anima on running mission table. I would be required to play 24/7. Do you understand, that only job-less people can do it?

And devs aren't even satisfied by game time, I spend in their game. How can they be so sadist? Where are my old WotLK/Cata times, when it was about "We don't care, how you play our game, if you still pay us your $15"?

Mmorpgs are time consuming. They are designed to keep u engaged monthly with long term goals to keep chasing. Please find a dif game if you're having health problems

[Yriel]

What other PVE endgame content existed in other expansion at release ?

There was gear progression in several ways. Like warfronts in BfA.
Not high end gear but something to do.
In SL, you get through the covenant quests and the WQ gear that is better than heroic dungeons and LFR and is mostly on par with normal raids. And you get that pretty quick. So after that there is nothing left to do for someone that doesn't M+ or heroic+ raids.
It wasn't like that in older expansions.

Plus older expansion had other stuff to farm like pets in the islands or endgame zones to rebuild like Suramar. Something that makes you log in. In SL there is just the insane anima grind, thats it.

[huth]

What I don't like - isn't content. I don't have to do all things in game, just because they exist.

They are still content. What is content isn't based on your personal preference, but on what the game actually offers.

You just keep making excuses, but the reality is going to remain that you're salty at a game that just doesn't fit your interests.

[Lei]

Its always the same with you isnt it.

its always negative

Its always hard to understand because you arent very good at getting your points across

And you are always trying to speak for other people instead of just speaking for yourself, even though almost all your threads/posts ends up with the far majority disagreeing with you

Oh I agree with him on the bases.
And lol, majority of mmochampion disagreeing with him. I read some comments on wowohead the other day. There are less white knights on wowhead than on here. Of all places! Go wowhead go!

How about you argue with his statements: does it take more time to get outdoor content rewards than in wotlk/cata? I can go back and check my achieves from cata on simple armory and tell you exactly how much time it took me to get exalted with factions (even with the 25 daily cap), to buy everything they offered compared to anything from legion.
Not to mention how WQs have been degrading since Legion. Legion gave more rep per elite WQs, they took maybe a minute to complete, and you had the whistle. BfA reps gave shittier rep, took longer time to complete, but still got the whistle. NOW? No whistle, no fast WQs, less flight points, the sheer amount of WQs is less than ever before, and they are SHIT. You spend more and more time in game to achieve less than ever before. And this has been a trend since Legion for multiple reasons.

[Dhrizzle]

Simple thing. This game is extremely time-consuming. I've been playing this game for 2 months. I set super-casual minimal possible goals in this game. And even with this minimal goals I started to play this game so much, that my health really started to suffer from hypodynamia. I started to feel mental fatigue, low blood pressure, blood circulation problems. Do you understand, that sitting for several hours in front of your computer = harm to your health? When I play my ordinal Steam games, I usually play for 3-4 hours a day + little bit more on weekends. But I started to play much more to achieve this super-casual goals in Wow. I'll tell you big secret. I even started to do, what I usually don't do. I started to play during my free time on my work. My work time is unrationed. I.e. sometimes I'm very busy, but sometimes I have free time. And what have I achieved? I've leveled just 4 characters to 60 (one of them from scratch), got 23 renown level on them and around 170ilvl. That's it.

And I just can't do things faster. Because they're designed to be time-consuming. They take time and I just physically can't do them more quickly. It's like when things are easy on paper and your boss on your work tells you to do things quickly, but software installer says NO - it takes, let's say, 10 minutes per computer and just REFUSES to do it faster, no matter what you do. So, if you need to install this soft on, let's say, 30 computers, this will inevitably take 5 hours, not lesser. Same here. You do quest, some dialog appears, you can't skip it. Or you need to get from point A to point B and it takes 5 minutes no matter what.

Do you understand, how much more would I be required to play, if I would want to play more hardcore? For example, if I would want to grind more anima to get covenant transmogs and upgrades? I.e. not standard 1k anima per week, but all possible anima, I could get. I don't even talk about spending anima on running mission table. I would be required to play 24/7. Do you understand, that only job-less people can do it?

And devs aren't even satisfied by game time, I spend in their game. How can they be so sadist? Where are my old WotLK/Cata times, when it was about "We don't care, how you play our game, if you still pay us your $15"?

It's really hard working out what your actual complaints are. I'm pretty sure you started out complaining there isn't enough content, now you're complaining you have to spend too much time playing and there are other goals you'd stretch to if you weren't worried about your health from playing too much, but then again you're trying to play four characters at the same time...

[ClassicPeon]

Oh I agree with him on the bases.
And lol, majority of mmochampion disagreeing with him. I read some comments on wowohead the other day. There are less white knights on wowhead than on here. Of all places! Go wowhead go!

How about you argue with his statements: does it take more time to get outdoor content rewards than in wotlk/cata? I can go back and check my achieves from cata on simple armory and tell you exactly how much time it took me to get exalted with factions (even with the 25 daily cap), to buy everything they offered compared to anything from legion.
Not to mention how WQs have been degrading since Legion. Legion gave more rep per elite WQs, they took maybe a minute to complete, and you had the whistle. BfA reps gave shittier rep, took longer time to complete, but still got the whistle. NOW? No whistle, no fast WQs, less flight points, the sheer amount of WQs is less than ever before, and they are SHIT. You spend more and more time in game to achieve less than ever before. And this has been a trend since Legion for multiple reasons.

I've done that several times and it always ends up with him running out of arguments and leaving. i know exactly what type of person he is and what he is capable of.

You being wrong doesnt change that most people disagree with him in general. Most of the things that come from him is laughable at best.

[WowIsDead64]

Mmorpgs are time consuming. They are designed to keep u engaged monthly with long term goals to keep chasing. Please find a dif game if you're having health problems

But isn't even baseline time consumption too high? Why this game should be for kids, who come how at 2pm after school and can play whole work shift till 10pm instead of doing their homework? What I don't understand - is why Blizzard care so much about daily activity, if players pay them monthly sub fee? I.e. we pay them no matter what. Isn't whole goal of having sub fee - to avoid exploiting P2W and exceeding grind tactics, malicious developers use?

[Dhrizzle]

But isn't even baseline time consumption too high? Why this game should be for kids, who come how at 2pm after school and can play whole work shift till 10pm instead of doing their homework? What I don't understand - is why Blizzard care so much about daily activity, if players pay them monthly sub fee? I.e. we pay them no matter what. Isn't whole goal of having sub fee - to avoid exploiting P2W and exceeding grind tactics, malicious developers use?

People want to be able to log on each day and progress their character in some way. Blizz have to balance making sure there is plenty to do that is worth doing for people with lots of play time, but not so much that people with less time feel left behind or forced to play more.

[WowIsDead64]

It's really hard working out what your actual complaints are. I'm pretty sure you started out complaining there isn't enough content, now you're complaining you have to spend too much time playing and there are other goals you'd stretch to if you weren't worried about your health from playing too much, but then again you're trying to play four characters at the same time...

Game currently lacks content, that lies within my acceptable range of time/effort consumption, so I need to wait for nerfs. What is called "Not enough good content". "Too much content" is as bad, as lack of it. Because when I know, that I wouldn't be able to bear this content, then it's not reasonable for me to even try.

Example: I would do anima grind right now, if it wouldn't be something like 1k per week, while everything beyond catch-up gear costs thousands of anima, so it would take months to get all rewards. And grinding all possible anima every day would take too much time. Especially if it needed to be done on several characters. Yeah, Blizzard can call it "xpack-wide rewards", but I just don't like this concept. Because this rewards would most likely become obsoleted much faster, than I would be able to get them. For example when some new gear sets will be released in future patches, I will lose my interest to covenant Tier 2 transmog sets, because they're just recolors of Tier 1. Every reward has it's lifetime. And if it's not obtained in time - then there is no reason to even start.

It's exactly the same problem, as back in BFA, when "catching-up" was so slow, that new content was arriving before you could do it, making whole process pointless.

This game has too high entrance threshold. It just should be lowered.

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People want to be able to log on each day and progress their character in some way. Blizz have to balance making sure there is plenty to do that is worth doing for people with lots of play time, but not so much that people with less time feel left behind or forced to play more.

Then they should do it better. Players with lots of time have dungeons, raids, arenas, BGs, Torghast, etc. And players with small time have outdoor and story only, so it's pointless to make their last accessible content more and more hardcore. It's like if Blizzard would want to take it away from casual players, push them out of game completely and give all content to hardcores.

[ellieg]

But isn't even baseline time consumption too high? Why this game should be for kids, who come how at 2pm after school and can play whole work shift till 10pm instead of doing their homework? What I don't understand - is why Blizzard care so much about daily activity, if players pay them monthly sub fee? I.e. we pay them no matter what. Isn't whole goal of having sub fee - to avoid exploiting P2W and exceeding grind tactics, malicious developers use?

I dont think so. Here's what I do weekly on my main

Grab covenant quests. Maw souls takes 5 mins, 1k anima I passively gain from other activities.
2 torghast runs - 1hour
World boss - 15 mins
Grab 2 weekly dungeon quests. Do them in m+.
4 m+ runs, ~3 hours

All of that takes about 4 hours. Keeps me caught up on renown and gives me 2 good options from vault.

No longer have rating for conquest gear that benefits me, but when I did thats 2 hours to cap it.

If I wanted to do the raid, that's another 2 hours.

So at max for me im looking at ~8 hours of gameplay a week. I dont think this is too time consuming at all. Like I said I only do 4 hours on main. U could cut out 3 m+ runs and save 2 more hours here. I do m+ cause I enjoy it.

What are u doing that u believe the minimum is too time consuming?

[Tiradon]

My problem with Heroic raiding relies on those 213 iLvl and the lack of Justice Badges for upgrades that don't drop. Personally I won't be raiding HC anymore after 9.0.5. We are still seeing if we going Mythic if we got the 20 elements.

Regarding M+ I like the idea behind Valor Points for alts and it seems it's where I will be investing more of my time... I still wish Valor Points would be both for Raiding and Mythic+, this way it feels like we are forcing some people to do M+ for the extra upgrade since they do drop from the callings after all....

[WowIsDead64]

I dont think so. Here's what I do weekly on my main

Grab covenant quests. Maw souls takes 5 mins, 1k anima I passively gain from other activities.
2 torghast runs - 1hour
World boss - 15 mins
Grab 2 weekly dungeon quests. Do them in m+.
4 m+ runs, ~3 hours

All of that takes about 4 hours. Keeps me caught up on renown and gives me 2 good options from vault.

No longer have rating for conquest gear that benefits me, but when I did thats 2 hours to cap it.

If I wanted to do the raid, that's another 2 hours.

So at max for me im looking at ~8 hours of gameplay a week. I dont think this is too time consuming at all. Like I said I only do 4 hours on main. U could cut out 3 m+ runs and save 2 more hours here. I do m+ cause I enjoy it.

What are u doing that u believe the minimum is too time consuming?

Leveling, renown grind, anima grind. And, as I've already said, this activities are way too time consuming for rewards, they give. What we need now - "emissary" mechanism for anima. Same, as reps have. I.e. giving 1k anima for every calling, but also buffing catch-up gear prices to compensate.

[cparle87]

I guess, Blizzard have made mistake with Renown catch-up. They give Renown from many sources, but at the same they time-gate it in order to slow you down and prevent Renown from being farmable.

Flat out lie. The only time you can't get catch up renown is when you have quests available that would provide it normally ie the anima weekly, soul weekly, and campaign missions. You do your anima and souls, check if you have a campaign. Yes, do it, then grind catchup till next campaign. No, grind till next campaign, see before.

[Powerogue]

What do you want then that would appease you in an MMORPG with regular content updates? You addressed yourself how regardless of the approach regarding catchup mechanics you'd find some way to complain about it.

[Lei]

I've done that several times and it always ends up with him running out of arguments and leaving. i know exactly what type of person he is and what he is capable of.

You being wrong doesnt change that most people disagree with him in general. Most of the things that come from him is laughable at best.

I mean you are wrong. I see now how this goes with you. Jeez. One more guy to the ignore list. Read: no need to answer.

[Asrialol]

Leveling, renown grind, anima grind. And, as I've already said, this activities are way too time consuming for rewards, they give. What we need now - "emissary" mechanism for anima. Same, as reps have. I.e. giving 1k anima for every calling, but also buffing catch-up gear prices to compensate.

Makes sense for callings to give us anima, huh. Here we are gathering anima for our covenant, only for them to give it back, with interests?

This thread feels like a giant whine blog. Entertaining, though, for sure.

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I mean you are wrong. I see now how this goes with you. Jeez. One more guy to the ignore list. Read: no need to answer.

Don't sink to the level where you feel you need to tell people you've ignored them. You see the irony in that, I hope.