"Pay to win"

[Ludvig]

Retail has not been “ruined” by leveling boosts.

Game changed because it was too much time sinking. I would not have cared if 1-58 boost would have existed back then also.

I remember all the time I spent in TBC to obtain the Druid flight form, it went for free after some years, I didn’t get mad in the slightest.

Again, you are not getting a 70 char with epic flying mount, two professions of your choice maxed out and a full T5 set, you are getting an average joe 58 char just to skip Classic leveling.

No, it's not just boosts that "ruined" retail. All changes did. You're right, the game has changed, that's exactly why people asked for classic/tbc/wotlk in the first place. The target audience for classic/tbc/wotlk is supposed to be the people that preferred WoW in these eras, whether the game was "unpolished" or not. Some people happen to love the "imperfections", e.g. actually having to level from scratch in an RPG. The horror! If they're just going to throw every change in again without even waiting for the expansion it was introduced in, what's the point of having these expansions in the first place?

I'll say it again, if they wanted people to surge through to Outland, RAF is a much healthier solution and is in the spirit of old WoW.

[chiddie]

No, it's not just boosts that "ruined" retail. All changes did. You're right, the game has changed, that's exactly why people asked for classic/tbc/wotlk in the first place. The target audience for classic/tbc/wotlk is supposed to be the people that preferred WoW in these eras, whether the game was "unpolished" or not. Some people happen to love the "imperfections", e.g. actually having to level from scratch in an RPG. The horror! If they're just going to throw every change in again without even waiting for the expansion it was introduced in, what's the point of having these expansions in the first place?

I'll say it again, if they wanted people to surge through to Outland, RAF is a much healthier solution and is in the spirit of old WoW.

It’s the same refrain always and always, already seen for example with flying and other stuff: boost does not prevent you from leveling naked with punches only if you want.

You want the others to ALSO level naked with punches only because so you like (it’s a global you, not specifically you): I’m taking ages because I like it (= I have tons of spare time to waste), so you’ll take ages too or gtfo.

Leveling back then was such a pita that being able to skip the “legit” (aka old content) part of it for me is just a benediction.

[Ludvig]

It’s the same refrain always and always, already seen for example with flying and other stuff: boost does not prevent you from leveling naked with punches only if you want.

You want the others to ALSO level naked with punches only because so you like (it’s a global you, not specifically you): I’m taking ages because I like it (= I have tons of spare time to waste), so you’ll take ages too or gtfo.

Leveling back then was such a pita that being able to skip the “legit” (aka old content) part of it for me is just a benediction.

No, I legit don't care about people using it or not. Nice strawman. I don't care about them having to go through the same grind I did. Considering the nerfed experience and added quests in 2.3, they wouldn't have to in the first place. They certainly wouldn't with RAF. I care about modern Blizzard taking a crap all over the integrity of old WoW.

[Belloc]

Even back in 07 & 08, casual players *somehow* managed to level their characters.

They didn't "somehow" manage to level their characters -- they leveled them through Vanilla content because TBC didn't exist yet. By the time TBC was released, they were already fully leveled up.

I didn't come back for Classic and I'm not interested at all in Classic content. I am, however, interested in TBC content. I've already done the Vanilla thing back when, you know, it wasn't WoW Classic. You know how people talk about Vanilla as WoW's glory days? Yeah, I did all that already. I'm not interested in wasting a month of my life playing WoW Classic just so I can be ready for TBC Classic.

Look, this is a pointless discussion -- Boosts are coming whether you like it or not. They are coming for people like me, who don't want to slog through the shittiest part of WoW's history. Deal with it.

[Frozenbro]

Yeah, they leveled them back in Vanilla and were already ready for TBC at launch. I didn't come back for Classic and I'm not interested at all in Classic content. I am, however, interested in TBC content.

Look, this is a pointless discussion -- Boosts are coming whether you like it or not. They are coming for people like me, who don't want to slog through the shittiest part of WoW's history. Deal with it.

Quote for truth lmao, people in 2021 still thinking that lvling deserves to be considered content in an expansion, lvling is a chore and blizz is giving the option to skip classic shitfest to jump straight into TBC, its the right call.

[Belloc]

Wrong, and classic shows that.

How? How does it show that? Where's your evidence?

You sure are confident in your wrong opinions and it cracks me up. Such an arrogant person you must be.

Oh, someone here is arrogant. Hint: It's the one saying that certain people shouldn't be allowed to play the game.

THere were casuals in TBC sure, and they were the people who would stop their sub..come back later play for a month and stop their sub again.

Or they were the people who PvP'd. The people who didn't have the time to progress through later tiers and instead focused on heroics and 10-man raids. The people who leveled character after character after character. The people who grinded reputations and mounts.

You're too busy calling me arrogant that you can't even picture casuals as anything other than the small niche of people leveling and cancelling their sub. You must really not know what arrogance is, because your post is full of it and you don't even realize it. Oh, and that's called hypocrisy, by the way.

That isn't who TBC classic is built for. You know it, and you don't want to admit it.

TBC Classic is built for those who missed out on TBC, those who have nostalgia for TBC, and for those... well, let's be frank: It's for everyone with a WoW subscription. Once again, you're gatekeeping and it's absolutely pathetic. You are who people are talking about when they refer to the community as toxic.

Go play the carnival retail game where you follow the script and don't have any real options, just a lot of mini games to play with no fulfillment.

Do you realize how wrong you are, right now? As someone who played WoW in Vanilla, TBC, WotLK, Cata, MoP, and BFA, I can plainly tell you that the game has more options now than it ever did before. If you can't admit that, then you have no business commenting on it because it's objectively true. I'd ask you to provide examples of how the retail game is scripted with no options but TBC isn't... but you won't be able to, because it's not true. Additionally, you wouldn't bother because you're already convinced that you're 100% correct and you're not going to let anyone change your opinion. "Fake news," as your kind might say.

[Jabakaga]

Leveling was part of TBC. If they don't wanna spend a couple weeks (not months) advancing their character from scratch they shouldn't be playing MMORPGs.

Some of us have family and kids and work, we longer are living in our mothers basement. So no it will take months to level through vanilla I wasn't gonna play TBCC until they I read they were offering boost.

[Belloc]

Some of us have family and kids and work, we longer are living in our mothers basement. So no it will take months to level through vanilla I wasn't gonna play TBCC until they I read they were offering boost.

Doesn't matter, players with real-life responsibilities don't get to skip old content. You're not a true gamer. Go play some Minecraft, you filthy casual.
/s

[arkanon]

I feel like people here forget what free to play actually means.

What does free to play have to do with wow classic or classic tbc?

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You do know you need to pay to play the game. If you do not pay you cannot play which means you cannot win. So the game is pay to win.

Not this again - no, that is NOT what P2W means. P2W is gaining an advantage over the other players of the same game. People not playing the game are not a factor.

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Like how some ‘servers’ let you pay to get a shadowmourne in tbc. That to me is without a question pay to win. But server transfers? Come on guys lol.

You could buy shadowmourne in tbc?

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I don't like the boost because it runs counter to the stated philosophy behind the Classic servers, but only allowing one per account is something I can live with.

The second part in particular seems to be quite a common comment - at least its only one. I think if it was unlimited then this would be a very different conversation.

[Zka]

So you win the game at lvl 58? WOW I wish I'd known this 15 years ago.

[arkanon]

They didn't "somehow" manage to level their characters -- they leveled them through Vanilla content because TBC didn't exist yet. By the time TBC was released, they were already fully leveled up.

The quoted person said "in 07 and 08" - tbc was released in January 2007. It very much did exist.

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So you win the game at lvl 58? WOW I wish I'd known this 15 years ago.

People seem very focused on the word "win" when in reality, the term P2W relates to gaining an advantage over others.

[Fisher557]

What does free to play have to do with wow classic or classic tbc?

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Not this again - no, that is NOT what P2W means. P2W is gaining an advantage over the other players of the same game. People not playing the game are not a factor.

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You could buy shadowmourne in tbc?

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The second part in particular seems to be quite a common comment - at least its only one. I think if it was unlimited then this would be a very different conversation.

When you lose an argument do you just attempt to not understand someone’s argument so you can keep posting? Or are you really this lost lol. I was referring to certain sketchy ‘servers’ that allow you to purchase crazy items for money, this one I was referring to was obviously a wotlk one right? Lol

[arkanon]

Doesn't matter, players with real-life responsibilities don't get to skip old content. You're not a true gamer. Go play some Minecraft, you filthy casual.
/s

God i hope you dont get infracted for this because its pretty damn funny.

[Fisher557]

The quoted person said "in 07 and 08" - tbc was released in January 2007. It very much did exist.

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People seem very focused on the word "win" when in reality, the term P2W relates to gaining an advantage over others.

Oh in reality that’s what it means? So if I make a character on a completely dead realm, and then get all the free black lotus I want from them then server xfer off, that makes server xfers pay to win also. Gotcha. Seems classic was pay to win too

[arkanon]

When you lose an argument do you just attempt to not understand someone’s argument so you can keep posting? Or are you really this lost lol. I was referring to certain sketchy ‘servers’ that allow you to purchase crazy items for money, this one I was referring to was obviously a wotlk one right? Lol

What? So you are referring to a WOTLK private server that was out during TBC?

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Oh in reality that’s what it means? So if I make a character on a completely dead realm, and then get all the free black lotus I want from them then server xfer off, that makes server xfers pay to win also. Gotcha. Seems classic was pay to win too

Your circular reasoning is getting painful to watch.

[Fisher557]

What? So you are referring to a WOTLK private server that was out during TBC?

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Your circular reasoning is getting painful to watch.

I’m just using your own definitions man. That’s what it means by your book!

[arkanon]

I’m just using your own definitions man. That’s what it means by your book!

They are not "my" definitions - you are welcome to google the term and educate yourself a little.

[chiddie]

So you win the game at lvl 58? WOW I wish I'd known this 15 years ago.

I bet that if it was still possible, someone would even play it with a 2007 PC and a crappy internet line “because it was the real experience”.

The game literally STARTS at level 58, but purists are just being mad because with a boost you can avoid the previous (now) useless grind they did (and so you have to). So glad that these people are not playing retail anymore.

[Frozenbro]

The game literally STARTS at level 58, but purists are just being mad because with a boost you can avoid the previous useless grind somehow. So glad that these people are not playing retail anymore.

They can't, the raid encounters are too hard for them rn.

[Zantos]

It's a p2w feature that anyone who wants to be competitive on alliance shaman or horde paladin will have to use, for sure.

Not in the slightest. Since, you know, Anyone can do it for free to.

OP: Agreed. People misconstrue what pay to Win means. Typically forgetting they have to actually, well, win with an advantage that cannot be gotten in game.