1. #21361
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's not resistant to vaccines themselves, it just suppresses the immune response. Though Moderna's vaccine is still effective against it - https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55900625

    It has, and will continue to have thousands upon thousands of mutations with the overwhelming majority having functionally no affect. Thus far the vaccines are proving effective against every major mutation that I've seen reported on, thankfully.
    The effectiveness of it has gone down with some vaccines being in the 50% range, the origin of the vaccine does concern me considering a lot of the trials were done in South Africa to evade 1st world country laws.

  2. #21362
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Data from Public Health England supports Public Health Scotland's findings that vaccination greatly reduces the risk of serious illness in the over 80s, with both AZ and Pfizer vaccines cutting the risk of hospitalisation by 81% four weeks after the first dose.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56153617
    Wasn't this just now 85% Pfizer and 94% AZ, in an article 1-2 pages ago, also from BBC, around day old? Some comments are even mentioning it (and doing the stupid along the way, because they still can't Brexit in their minds).
    I am a bit confused. But according to previous results Pfizer overall is... better?
    This is annoying. Pretty sure that AZ results have varied wildly over the last month, so which one is it, after all?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  3. #21363
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Wasn't this just now 85% Pfizer and 94% AZ, in an article 1-2 pages ago, also from BBC, around day old? Some comments are even mentioning it (and doing the stupid along the way, because they still can't Brexit in their minds).
    I am a bit confused. But according to previous results Pfizer overall is... better?
    This is annoying. Pretty sure that AZ results have varied wildly over the last month, so which one is it, after all?
    The data on the variants is still pretty early we only learned about the concerning ones a few months ago. In place like the US we don't know since we don't have do this kind of testing on a meaningful scale.

  4. #21364
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Wasn't this just now 85% Pfizer and 94% AZ, in an article 1-2 pages ago, also from BBC, around day old? Some comments are even mentioning it (and doing the stupid along the way, because they still can't Brexit in their minds).
    I am a bit confused. But according to previous results Pfizer overall is... better?
    This is annoying. Pretty sure that AZ results have varied wildly over the last month, so which one is it, after all?
    They are different studies from different bodies - one in Scotland (the first article) and one in the England - I even mentioned in the post you quoted that PHE's study supported the findings from PHS. I have no idea why you've mentioned Brexit.

    Both vaccines work and cut the risk of serious illness.

  5. #21365
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Wasn't this just now 85% Pfizer and 94% AZ, in an article 1-2 pages ago, also from BBC, around day old? Some comments are even mentioning it (and doing the stupid along the way, because they still can't Brexit in their minds).
    Yes, it's the same study from Scotland.

    The 81% is from the elderly in that study (not split according to vaccine - most got AZ); so the vaccines were more effective for younger ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I am a bit confused. But according to previous results Pfizer overall is... better?
    It may be better even in this study.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Note that when we add confidence intervals for those numbers is that Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine reduced hospitalization by 85% (CI 76 to 91%), and for Astra-Zeneca 94% (CI 73 to 99%), it becomes clear that we don't know which one is better. Since the vaccine rollouts were at different times it may also be difficult to compare them.
    So, Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is between 76 and 91% effective after first dose, and Astra-Zeneca vaccine between 73 and 99% after the first dose.
    We don't know which number in those intervals are the right ones, so we can just compute the odds for one being "better" than the other.

    Oh, and read the rest of my previous reply as well; if you live in the UK you should be concerned that the population is used as guinea pigs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    This is annoying. Pretty sure that AZ results have varied wildly over the last month, so which one is it, after all?
    We don't know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    They are different studies from different bodies - one in Scotland (the first article) and one in the England - I even mentioned in the post you quoted that PHE's study supported the findings from PHS. I have no idea why you've mentioned Brexit.
    The second article had both data from PHS and PHE. However, the quoted number was from PHS; so both numbers were from Scotland.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Both vaccines work and cut the risk of serious illness.
    Yes, but as far as I can see the data does not support the idea of delaying the second dose beyond four weeks for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine; it rather suggests that the effect starts to wane.

    With only one dose for Pfizer/BioNTech (the 2nd dose would normally be given around day 28 I think):
    At day 28-34 effectiveness is 85% (76 to 91)
    At day 35-41 effectiveness is 68% (53 to 79)
    At day 42+ effectiveness is 64% (49 to 75)
    Note that this is effectiveness in terms of hospital admissions.

    For obvious reasons the study cannot say anything about such long-term effectiveness for the Astra-Zeneca vaccine in the population.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2021-02-23 at 07:31 AM. Reason: Oops

  6. #21366
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    In terms of basic education you are simply wrong as experts have found the past year, and it still doesn't explain why you gave an example of bygone days where kids still met in groups but didn't get a good education.

    And to quote another person with experience of humans:
    Self proclaimed experts don't usually hold much expertise. There was a time period when not everyone has gone to school. Public education wasn't mandatory until the 1920's. So obviously humans don't need contact with large groups of people to stay mentally healthy.

    You didn't read the warning label saying: "Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results"?
    Good thing I'm an off brand label. A lot of people have had COVID that didn't know they had it. That's how the virus is able to spread as well as it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Nobody I know thought that, we all were aware that there would be a second wave in fall.
    Why did we know that? Because up here, Coronaviruses are seasonal, it was to be expected that the shiny new one followed the same pattern.
    We've had more than 2 waves. Like I said many times before, there is no second wave. Just one continuous wave.

    The only reason why C19 is actually a problem is because technology allowed us to maintain a popular of seniors that is unnatural. There is no reason to fret for the human race if we don't keep wearing chin-diapers for the rest of our existence.
    I don't understand this. You're ok with the elder dying? Pretty sure there was an episode on Star Trek about that.
    Yo and who cares, now a hundred years after?
    Right. No one.
    Which is why history repeats and then we have COVID.
    I have 26 teachers at work with me that would WILDLY disagree with your statement.
    Not because they fear for their jobs but because they are deeply worried about the children's lack of progress.
    Sure they're not worried about losing their jobs. Reduced hours along with reduced pay would never effect ones opinion on a matter. I'm sure the gym teachers are totally fine with this. Movie theater workers as well as restaurant workers all agree that activities with people are better for people. No conflict of interest there. Nope.

  7. #21367
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    I don't understand this. You're ok with the elder dying? Pretty sure there was an episode on Star Trek about that.
    I was talking from the angle of C19 being a threat to humanity that warrants continuous, indefinite measures. Don't try to twist my words.

    Fact is: if the vaccines suppress most problematic cases / deaths even in the elderly population (the most vulnerable one to C19), then there is -0- reason to continue this nonsense.

    You being afraid of some super bug will not change that.

    Will this be the last pandemic? No. New contagions are a part of living in this world. It's only a matter of time.

  8. #21368
    Scarab Lord MCMLXXXII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Self proclaimed experts don't usually hold much expertise. There was a time period when not everyone has gone to school. Public education wasn't mandatory until the 1920's. So obviously humans don't need contact with large groups of people to stay mentally healthy.

    That time was so much better for kids. As a 6 year old you didn't have to go to school...... you only had to work in a factory on a 12 hour shift.

  9. #21369
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Self proclaimed experts don't usually hold much expertise.
    Yes, we have seen that you as a self proclaimed expert have little or no knowledge.

    There are several reason why most countries work very hard to keep schools open, with in person learning, and a major one is that they actually have experts saying that this is important for the children.

    Unless you can find an expert that support your views I don't see any point in continuing this discussion. I'm still not convinced that you have seen an actual human being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    There was a time period when not everyone has gone to school.
    But most of them frequently met with other children - even if they didn't go to school.
    They were also less educated and wouldn't be able to handle the workplace of the future.

    And, it's easy, but wrong, to assume that there was no school before it was made mandatory (and the US wasn't the first country with public education).

  10. #21370
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Oh yea once that happens totes nothing from other countries can change the equation /s
    can't wait for shit to hit the fan when the vaccination passport society has become a thing and a new strain breaks out requiring lockdown level measures again.

    got a feeling it won't be accepted and it'll become politically viable to just segregate the vulnerable instead.

  11. #21371
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Second shot done, bye COVID-19, see you again in 2028 or whatever it will be next time.

  12. #21372
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I was talking from the angle of C19 being a threat to humanity that warrants continuous, indefinite measures. Don't try to twist my words.

    Fact is: if the vaccines suppress most problematic cases / deaths even in the elderly population (the most vulnerable one to C19), then there is -0- reason to continue this nonsense.

    You being afraid of some super bug will not change that.

    Will this be the last pandemic? No. New contagions are a part of living in this world. It's only a matter of time.
    We should learn from this and do what we can to prevent an outbreak from killing as many people as it has. To simply go back to pre-covid will mean we've learned nothing from this experience. We should avoid gathering of large groups of people whenever possible. In Asia the wearing of a mask was the norm even before COVID. We have the technology to limit our interaction with people when unnecessary. We should take advantage of it, instead of promoting our legacy way of life.

  13. #21373
    Yet even more proof of Trumper Right Wing Anti-Science and Anti-Intellectual Idiocy.



    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

  14. #21374
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    Yet even more proof of Trumper Right Wing Anti-Science and Anti-Intellectual Idiocy.



    Does this stem from how "ME, MEGAN MCCAIN, VERY IMPORTANT PERSON AND CO-HOST OF THE VIEW, THE POPULAR TELEVISION PROGRAM, I DON'T KNOW WHEN AND WHERE TO GET MY VACCINE! DR. FAUCCI, WHO IS THE NATIONS TOP INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT, CANNOT TELL ME WHEN AND WHERE I, MEGAN MCCAIN, CAN GET MY VACCINE. HE SHOULD KNOW WHEN EVERY ONE OF THE 300M+ AMERICANS ARE SCHEDULED TO GET THEIR VACCINES AND WHERE THEY SHOULD GET THEM!"

    Or is this unrelated?

    Also, what are Diamond and Silk up to nowadays?

  15. #21375
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Also, what are Diamond and Silk up to nowadays?
    Newsmax...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #21376
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    Yet even more proof of Trumper Right Wing Anti-Science and Anti-Intellectual Idiocy.



    grifters making $ of the stupid. I don't doubt for a second these two would get vaccinated the second they can in secret.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  17. #21377
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    We should take advantage of it, instead of promoting our legacy way of life.
    Yeah .. no.
    I'd rather we react faster and in a more organized manner when a new contagion pops up and live as usual in the mean time.

    Best of both worlds, so to speak.

  18. #21378
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Second shot done, bye COVID-19, see you again in 2028 or whatever it will be next time.
    Prolly we'll have to get boosters every year or so...

    My next dose will be in about 2 weeks, so fingers crossed for nothing happening
    Last edited by Thepersona; 2021-02-23 at 10:52 PM.
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  19. #21379
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Newsmax...
    I'm almost tempted to make a Twitter account "Cubic Zirconia and Taffeta" and mock their misinformation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  20. #21380
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    I'm almost tempted to make a Twitter account "Cubic Zirconia and Taffeta" and mock their misinformation.
    I call them Cubic Zirconia and Burlap.

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