Sylvanas Windrunner Raid Boss: The Big Elephant in the Room

[Gurahk]

First of all, I don't believe they're gonna kill off Sylvanas, sadly.
Second of all, I don't think Tyrande should be the one to kill her off, yes her tree got burnt down but does that automatically mean she get to land the killing blow? Nah.
Personally I want it either to be Zovaal, or the spirits of the past, e.g. Saurfang, Arthas, Varian, Random Nelf spirit e.t.c. all ganging up on her.

[Yarathir]

Don't think she will die, Blizzard are backpeddling hard to make it seem like shes regretting what shes doing.

For sure. She's now a conflicted soul because her "little lion" got involved. They're setting her up to hack in and sloppily glue more nuance to her than she's had for most of the story.

[Jastall]

how is Sylvanas worse when

Arthas destroyed his own kingdom, genocide the High elves, and helped unleash the burning legion?

Sylvanas destroyed two kingdoms (and a half I guess, if one wanna counts blighting Undercity), almost genocided the Night Elves, helped unleash N'zoth, and not only sided with but directly aided the guy who is currently tormenting the dead of an entire reality. Arthas was worse than her for a long time, but by Shadowlands I'd say they're equal at least.

Not that it changes anything, as Grommash showcased quite well your past crimes don't matter if the writers want to muh redemption you because the story has the memory of a goldfish most of the time. She felt sad for Anduin, so the groundwork is already well laid by their standards.

[MatPandaZ]

Plot twist: Sylv is being manipulated not by the Jailer, but by the void lords. She was told to assist the Jailer to get our major attention while the void lords plan their invasion of Azeroth via the shadowlands (We know void lords can get there, and we can get to Azeroth so just follow the path back). Xpac ends with the Jailer killing Sylv and her resurrecting as some kind of old god death fuelled hybrid bitch queen.

[Traveler Voltin]

Sylvanas destroyed two kingdoms (and a half I guess, if one wanna counts blighting Undercity), almost genocided the Night Elves, helped unleash N'zoth, and not only sided with but directly aided the guy who is currently tormenting the dead of an entire reality. Arthas was worse than her for a long time, but by Shadowlands I'd say they're equal at least.

Not that it changes anything, as Grommash showcased quite well your past crimes don't matter if the writers want to muh redemption you because the story has the memory of a goldfish most of the time. She felt sad for Anduin, so the groundwork is already well laid by their standards.

since when is Undercity a kingdom?

[DargorDraconis]

Tyrande deserve to kill her more then anyone
Still i don't think blizzard will ever let us/a npc kill the simp queen

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I feel like they've invested way too much into Sylvanas, both character development and game marketing, for her to be killed off in a mid-expansion tier raid.

[DargorDraconis]

So were willing to ignore Arthas' crimes just because he didn't cross some arbitary line you decided determined if someone's worthy of redemption? And not like that argument is even valid because he did in fact willingly became the Jailer's ally when he grabbed the Frostmourne and donned the Helm. He freely chose to serve Death. Just because we didn't use Jailer's name then doesn't change the fact. He was absolutely his minion. So yeah.



It's not complicated. You either redeem both Sylvanas and Arthas, or you don't redeem either. Can't have one without the other.

Nope, Arthas did not know about the jailer or even the lich king before taking frostmourne
Arthas was controlled by the lich king (Lich king Death knight don't have free will)
Meanwhile no one control Sylvanas actions
Is not complicated

[ohwell]

Did the voice actress of Sylvanas confirmed that Sylvanas wont die ?

https://twitter.com/PattyMattson/sta...02073212710912

and

https://twitter.com/PattyMattson/sta...58949381545988

That is VERY weird in how she says it. You can take it two ways: She'll "always be there" in the dungeon and the raid essentially immortalized or that she isn't going to die and that it is just similar to a false version of her. It could be the idea people were floating around that there are two versions of Uther and Sylvanas as we saw Uther in Icecrown. Did it happen naturally to everyone or did Uther's prayer allow him to split? I mean I don't really think it's a blessing to condemn one half of his soul and to send the other to Bastion so one would assume it was just what happens to everyone. If that is true then perhaps it was really the first version of Sylvanas that the Jailer got his claws into and made a swap at some point(possibly the suicide considering the suicide is practically a retcon at this point as nothing in it makes sense to what she saw). It could be that she got sent to Ardenweald being that she was a hunter and druids and hunters can go there and unlike Bastion they threw her into the maw seeing the mark whereas Bastion though their methods would purge the mark from Uther.

Just shooting some ideas, no way implying they're what actually happen, but 1 of those options could be possible whereas I doubt the whole thing I wrote would work together.

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Nope, Arthas did not know about the jailer or even the lich king before taking frostmourne
Arthas was controlled by the lich king (Lich king Death knight don't have free will)
Meanwhile no one control Sylvanas actions
Is not complicated

She's literally saying NONE of us have control and that's why she's siding with him. That is the entire point of what she did. Have you not watched a single cinematic?

[Triceron]

Remember when Garrosh died at the end of MoP?

[ohwell]

I feel like they've invested way too much into Sylvanas, both character development and game marketing, for her to be killed off in a mid-expansion tier raid.

Exactly. Meanwhile people complain about Azshara and Nzoth when both made sense. Then again let's be honest BFA was just a huge prepatch for Shadowlands. The same can't really be said of others. The plot for BFA was literally Sylvanas doing things specifically to feed the Jailer. Legion's plot was stopping the Legion, whereas anything BFA related was fairly background level. WoD's plot was stopping the Iron Horde and Guldan was simply a background threat etc.

[Kithelle]

Remember when Garrosh died at the end of MoP?

Would be nice if we could bring her to justice, but honestly I'm expecting a Grommash ending, not a Garrosh ending...

[mickybrighteyes]

Remember when Garrosh died at the end of MoP?

or the time Jaina died in that city raid?

People want to kill Sylvanas they're better off hitting up classic and raiding UC or the End Times dungeon

[DargorDraconis]

That is VERY weird in how she says it. You can take it two ways: She'll "always be there" in the dungeon and the raid essentially immortalized or that she isn't going to die and that it is just similar to a false version of her. It could be the idea people were floating around that there are two versions of Uther and Sylvanas as we saw Uther in Icecrown. Did it happen naturally to everyone or did Uther's prayer allow him to split? I mean I don't really think it's a blessing to condemn one half of his soul and to send the other to Bastion so one would assume it was just what happens to everyone. If that is true then perhaps it was really the first version of Sylvanas that the Jailer got his claws into and made a swap at some point(possibly the suicide considering the suicide is practically a retcon at this point as nothing in it makes sense to what she saw). It could be that she got sent to Ardenweald being that she was a hunter and druids and hunters can go there and unlike Bastion they threw her into the maw seeing the mark whereas Bastion though their methods would purge the mark from Uther.

Just shooting some ideas, no way implying they're what actually happen, but 1 of those options could be possible whereas I doubt the whole thing I wrote would work together.

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She's literally saying NONE of us have control and that's why she's siding with him. That is the entire point of what she did. Have you not watched a single cinematic?

Ofc a villain trying to corrupt a hero is a reiable source of information right?
she have nerver lied before right?

[mickybrighteyes]

Would be nice if we could bring her to justice, but honestly I'm expecting a Grommash ending, not a Garrosh ending...

yeah. bonus points if it's Sylvanas raising an overly marketable merchandise option shouting something like "life is free!" or something to that effect.

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Ofc a villain trying to corrupt a hero is a reiable source of information right?
she have nerver lied before right?

actually, Sylvanas had a pretty damn good track record of being painfully honest when Anduin was present. Besides... he is a walking lie detector who can feel malice and ill intent (canon powers post divine bell storyline). I think they would milk that a bit more given Golden's usage of it in her works.

[ohwell]

Ofc a villain trying to corrupt a hero is a reiable source of information right?
she have nerver lied before right?

Sure, and yet we still have people quoting every single old god statement as fact when they LITERALLY by canon tell you a thousand lies for every truth but tell you lies specifically that sound very true but are definitely lies.

Her case is different as she looks like she's actually telling the truth and torn. When has she actively lied in a cinematic anyway? She doesn't seem to be the type that actually lies short of the misdirection at Darkshore. She'd rather slap you in the face with the truth.

Also you're claiming she's lying about that then I can easily say "Well how do you not know she's lying about working for the jailer and wanting his plans?" Sorry neither works. She wasn't lying.

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yeah. bonus points if it's Sylvanas raising an overly marketable merchandise option shouting something like "life is free!" or something to that effect.

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actually, Sylvanas had a pretty damn good track record of being painfully honest when Anduin was present. Besides... he is a walking lie detector who can feel malice and ill intent (canon powers post divine bell storyline). I think they would milk that a bit more given Golden's usage of it in her works.

I mean she loves telling the truth more than lying especially when it hurts anyone not just him. However, she actually seemed sad and sincere there.

[DargorDraconis]

yeah. bonus points if it's Sylvanas raising an overly marketable merchandise option shouting something like "life is free!" or something to that effect.

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actually, Sylvanas had a pretty damn good track record of being painfully honest when Anduin was present. Besides... he is a walking lie detector who can feel malice and ill intent (canon powers post divine bell storyline). I think they would milk that a bit more given Golden's usage of it in her works.

If she was honest and he trusted her why they had to force him into service?
Looking at the last cinematic he is obviously mind controlled

[Kithelle]

yeah. bonus points if it's Sylvanas raising an overly marketable merchandise option shouting something like "life is free!" or something to that effect.

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actually, Sylvanas had a pretty damn good track record of being painfully honest when Anduin was present. Besides... he is a walking lie detector who can feel malice and ill intent (canon powers post divine bell storyline). I think they would milk that a bit more given Golden's usage of it in her works.

Will that include a big grin on her face like when she yelled "For the Horde" in the first BFA cinematic, so we know she *means it*?

[bagina]

That is VERY weird in how she says it. You can take it two ways: She'll "always be there" in the dungeon and the raid essentially immortalized or that she isn't going to die and that it is just similar to a false version of her. It could be the idea people were floating around that there are two versions of Uther and Sylvanas as we saw Uther in Icecrown. Did it happen naturally to everyone or did Uther's prayer allow him to split? I mean I don't really think it's a blessing to condemn one half of his soul and to send the other to Bastion so one would assume it was just what happens to everyone. If that is true then perhaps it was really the first version of Sylvanas that the Jailer got his claws into and made a swap at some point(possibly the suicide considering the suicide is practically a retcon at this point as nothing in it makes sense to what she saw). It could be that she got sent to Ardenweald being that she was a hunter and druids and hunters can go there and unlike Bastion they threw her into the maw seeing the mark whereas Bastion though their methods would purge the mark from Uther.

My interpretation of her tweets is "Hey, you've already fought Sylvanas in a raid and she was fine, remember? Soo...", and that cheeky emoticon seems to enforce that. Could be just me.

[ohwell]

My interpretation of her tweets is "Hey, you've already fought Sylvanas in a raid and she was fine, remember? Soo...", and that cheeky emoticon seems to enforce that. Could be just me.

Except we didn't. We fought a future version of her that is no longer our timeline. I mean it's weird to relate it to an alternate version and simply have the current version escape.