Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[cubby]

If he was debating you guys I would agree but he isn’t and never was.

His game was to see just how much he could shit on the page and how much you guys would feed him so he could keep going. And in his game, he owned everyone who kept feeding him.

I like to use the playing chess with a pigeon analogy and his game, the pigeon won and did exactly what he aimed to do.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't necessarily agree with your moving forward points. Jeezy embodies the Trumpkins of the world, and there are 74 million of them, so when they get their talking points lined up and pushed out, it's both good practice for the brighter people who come after him, and good form to make sure their blatant lies and propaganda are answered. If they go unchecked, others might start to believe the lies.

Moreover, answer the Trumpkin lies gives everyone a chance to see the issues and hear the reality of the situation. At some point some Trumpkins are going to start waking up (OMG can they be the new WOKE culture?) and they will need a point of light to follow once reality starts setting in.

I do understand your point about not feeding the blithering masses, but there are good reasons to keep the fight going.

[Ivanstone]

Cool, meanwhile the shit is splattering all over everyone else and nobody can tell chess was the original game because it's been obscured in all of the shit.

Yeah but it really hasn't been that obscured.

The shit flinger tries to throw some shit at Joe and Kamala. We do our part by heroically intervening. Its mostly the same labour but occasionally something interesting occurs.

[cubby]

Cool, meanwhile the shit is splattering all over everyone else and nobody can tell chess was the original game because it's been obscured in all of the shit.

I disagree. Those paying attention, or who want to pay attention, know what the original game was - and at the end, when the king is down (and doesn't that analogy go far), the rational point still stands - and that's important right now, even if we have to deal with a little shit flinging to get there.

[callipygoustp]

I know the Biden admin is bereft of scandals right now, but surely there are better things to discuss?

What about Biden's dog? Not quite the scandal that dijon on a hot dog was, but still!!!!!!
Newsmax Host Attacks Biden’s 12-Year-Old Dog Champ: “Looks Like It’s From a Junkyard”

[Endus]

Cool, meanwhile the shit is splattering all over everyone else and nobody can tell chess was the original game because it's been obscured in all of the shit.

And the alternative is just quietly ignoring the shit-slinger while they carefully smear that shit all over your face, making sure to dig it right up your nose and into your ears, and all over your mouth. You just sit there, passively, accepting that shit is now your life.

That stance is, to at least some degree, why the US has gone down the absolute shitter with this stuff. Why Trump is the most American President you've ever had. Why he still has a massive amount of support.

Because everyone decided to be quiet and just hope the shit-slingers went away.

They didn't.

And now you live in a world defined by the shit they've smeared over everything.

Chaotic splatter that we can clean up is the less messy alternative.

Would I prefer if moderation were more aggressive in handling these things? Yarp. But that's not the world we live in. Ignoring them doesn't make them go away, it just empowers and emboldens them, and makes those following along think that maybe they've got a valid point, and that's why we won't critique it, we're just avoiding it because what they have to say scares us.

And frankly, I'm not scared of a little poop. If getting sprayed a bit is the price for shoving that shit back down their own throats, so be it. I'll still choke them on it.

[Benggaul]

And the alternative is just quietly ignoring the shit-slinger while they carefully smear that shit all over your face, making sure to dig it right up your nose and into your ears, and all over your mouth. You just sit there, passively, accepting that shit is now your life.

False. The alternative is to not join in--because joining that game just means that it's spread around even further and for longer--and instead call in the people whose job it is to resolve it. The report button is there for a reason.

Everyone here knows he's a troll. Nobody is coming to the Politics subsection of a World of Warcraft fansite for their news. There's very little to gain from 20 different people all trying to get their "unique" take on what a troll had to say. NOBODY who is "following along" thinks they have a valid point--excepting those who are already in the same conspiracy theory fan club already.

So many people love to make the same "OMG I'm protecting people by proving him wrong!" argument and it's completely bogus. If that were the case they'd see that someone else had already debunked them and refrain from adding to it and prolonging the idiocy, but no, without fail half the threads in this forum get derailed for upwards of 5-10 pages because a dozen different people all want to win a battle of wits against someone who is obviously unarmed.

Finally, sorry, but this forum is not indicative of real life. Society isn't turning to shit because trolls are being ignored; they're just not being punished. I'm also not suggesting that "everyone should just be quiet and hope it goes away" but rather that we don't need more than a cursory rebuttal with sources--if you're really so afraid some random surfer is going to somehow arrive here and take whatever some asshat says as gospel--before throwing the shit-flinging troll back under their bridge and coming back to reality. It should not take more than a couple posts tops. Like I said before, I guess there's so little controversy in the Biden/Harris administration that people are bored, but boy does it make the "Ignore" function here effectively useless when you can scroll for 30 seconds and still see the same people responding to obvious trash.

I'm ending my part in the "discussion" here because it's already far more recognition than the useless shitstain deserves and I'm loathe to prolong it further. Have fun wallowing in the shit, I guess.

[Xyonai]

That all said, taking up pages of posts to justify engaging with a known shitposter is extra-unproductive and just gives said shitposter what they wanted by shitting all over the place to begin with. So let's get back on track, shall we?

Like how the First migrant facility for children opens under Biden

Which doesn't seem like a good look, considering how much progressives and people with functional empathy have railed against Trump's Internment Camps and abhorrent child separation policies and has already drawn the ire from immigration lawyers; but, from the article, these new facilities actually seem to be built with treating people humanely in mind while they're being processed.

At the 66-acre site, groups of beige trailers encircle a giant white dining tent, a soccer field and a basketball court. There is a bright blue hospital tent with white bunk beds inside. A legal services trailer has the Spanish word “Bienvenidos,” or welcome, on a banner on its roof. There are trailers for classrooms, a barber shop, a hair salon. The facility has its own ambulances and firetrucks, as well as its own water supply.

The operation is based on a federal emergency management system, Weber said. The trailers are labeled with names such as Alpha, Charlie and Echo. Staff members wear matching black-and-white T-shirts displaying their roles: disaster case manager, incident support, emergency management.

Which, if the facilities are at least comfortable and Biden can actually make ground on reigning in ICE being, well, ICE; I see this as a positive thing?

[cubby]

False. The alternative is to not join in--because joining that game just means that it's spread around even further and for longer--and instead call in the people whose job it is to resolve it. The report button is there for a reason.

So if the only voice that is heard is shit, and no one responds, and there are no authorities to deal with it, the shit will just go away? 1930's Germany says hi.

So many people love to make the same "OMG I'm protecting people by proving him wrong!" argument and it's completely bogus. If that were the case they'd see that someone else had already debunked them and refrain from adding to it and prolonging the idiocy, but no, without fail half the threads in this forum get derailed for upwards of 5-10 pages because a dozen different people all want to win a battle of wits against someone who is obviously unarmed.

That's just human nature though - you're thinking about this from all the wrong angles. Those Trumpkins don't acknowledge reality, at all, so several people chiming in not only demonstrate the shit thrower is out of touch, but also brings different points to the discussion. You're arguing that proving someone wrong five times over is a bad thing - and it's not. At all.

[Endus]

False. The alternative is to not join in--because joining that game just means that it's spread around even further and for longer--and instead call in the people whose job it is to resolve it. The report button is there for a reason.

And I've been on the other side of that button. And I am intimately familiar with the administration's stance that people being obviously, baitingly wrong and oblivious and nonsensical is something they consider the community's role to deal with, not moderation.

What Jeezy's doing isn't against site rules. If I were still a mod and I slapped him for it, that infraction would almost certainly get reversed on review. This is how I know this. I know where that line is, better than most.

Finally, sorry, but this forum is not indicative of real life. Society isn't turning to shit because trolls are being ignored; they're just not being punished.

It's the same attitude that CNN and other media had with the "fairness doctrine", of letting them have their say and letting the audience decide.

And that was such an egregious failure of policy that they've all reversed course, because it's directly led to the collapse of responsible rhetoric in media.

I'm ending my part in the "discussion" here because it's already far more recognition than the useless shitstain deserves and I'm loathe to prolong it further. Have fun wallowing in the shit, I guess.

We're wallowing in the same shit. I'm just making an effort to shovel it out, while you're complaining that it's never gonna help. That we should kowtow to those spreading the shit and let them have their day. I can't grasp how you think that's a responsible tactic.

[cubby]

That all said, taking up pages of posts to justify engaging with a known shitposter is extra-unproductive and just gives said shitposter what they wanted by shitting all over the place to begin with. So let's get back on track, shall we?

Like how the First migrant facility for children opens under Biden

Which doesn't seem like a good look, considering how much progressives and people with functional empathy have railed against Trump's Internment Camps and abhorrent child separation policies and has already drawn the ire from immigration lawyers; but, from the article, these new facilities actually seem to be built with treating people humanely in mind while they're being processed.

At the 66-acre site, groups of beige trailers encircle a giant white dining tent, a soccer field and a basketball court. There is a bright blue hospital tent with white bunk beds inside. A legal services trailer has the Spanish word “Bienvenidos,” or welcome, on a banner on its roof. There are trailers for classrooms, a barber shop, a hair salon. The facility has its own ambulances and firetrucks, as well as its own water supply.

The operation is based on a federal emergency management system, Weber said. The trailers are labeled with names such as Alpha, Charlie and Echo. Staff members wear matching black-and-white T-shirts displaying their roles: disaster case manager, incident support, emergency management.

Which, if the facilities are at least comfortable and Biden can actually make ground on reigning in ICE being, well, ICE; I see this as a positive thing?

While it's horrible that we have to "detain" children/families, it's very good that we are improving the locations in which we are doing it. The description from WaPo seems good - the right idea being providing the best that we can for a bad situation.

[Bodakane]

False. The alternative is to not join in--because joining that game just means that it's spread around even further and for longer--and instead call in the people whose job it is to resolve it. The report button is there for a reason.

Everyone here knows he's a troll. Nobody is coming to the Politics subsection of a World of Warcraft fansite for their news. There's very little to gain from 20 different people all trying to get their "unique" take on what a troll had to say. NOBODY who is "following along" thinks they have a valid point--excepting those who are already in the same conspiracy theory fan club already.

So many people love to make the same "OMG I'm protecting people by proving him wrong!" argument and it's completely bogus. If that were the case they'd see that someone else had already debunked them and refrain from adding to it and prolonging the idiocy, but no, without fail half the threads in this forum get derailed for upwards of 5-10 pages because a dozen different people all want to win a battle of wits against someone who is obviously unarmed.

Finally, sorry, but this forum is not indicative of real life. Society isn't turning to shit because trolls are being ignored; they're just not being punished. I'm also not suggesting that "everyone should just be quiet and hope it goes away" but rather that we don't need more than a cursory rebuttal with sources--if you're really so afraid some random surfer is going to somehow arrive here and take whatever some asshat says as gospel--before throwing the shit-flinging troll back under their bridge and coming back to reality. It should not take more than a couple posts tops. Like I said before, I guess there's so little controversy in the Biden/Harris administration that people are bored, but boy does it make the "Ignore" function here effectively useless when you can scroll for 30 seconds and still see the same people responding to obvious trash.

I'm ending my part in the "discussion" here because it's already far more recognition than the useless shitstain deserves and I'm loathe to prolong it further. Have fun wallowing in the shit, I guess.

Its fair you don't agree.

I'm just tired of people thinking that when we engage with them, we are doing so completely oblivious to their goals, when it is again, we don't care what their goals are, we just want their form of bullshit and misinformation to not go unchallenged.

To be fair, public forums of all kinds, this one included as well as social media, et all....is precisely the reason society is going to shit.

[Omega10]

And the alternative is just quietly ignoring the shit-slinger while they carefully smear that shit all over your face, making sure to dig it right up your nose and into your ears, and all over your mouth. You just sit there, passively, accepting that shit is now your life.

That stance is, to at least some degree, why the US has gone down the absolute shitter with this stuff. Why Trump is the most American President you've ever had. Why he still has a massive amount of support.

Because everyone decided to be quiet and just hope the shit-slingers went away.

They didn't.

And now you live in a world defined by the shit they've smeared over everything.

Chaotic splatter that we can clean up is the less messy alternative.

Would I prefer if moderation were more aggressive in handling these things? Yarp. But that's not the world we live in. Ignoring them doesn't make them go away, it just empowers and emboldens them, and makes those following along think that maybe they've got a valid point, and that's why we won't critique it, we're just avoiding it because what they have to say scares us.

And frankly, I'm not scared of a little poop. If getting sprayed a bit is the price for shoving that shit back down their own throats, so be it. I'll still choke them on it.

I agree with this approach. If we are scared of a little poop, the US is completely and totally screwed.

Eventually they will get tired of suffering one crisis after another just to "own the libs". After all, 500k deaths and frozen Texas are the results of just 2 of their attempts to own the libs. Low wages and bad health care are other self afflicted problems that they saddled themselves with.

They did this to themselves. Too bad they bring others down with them Hopefully not for too much longer.

[Fugus]

I hear what you're saying, but I don't necessarily agree with your moving forward points. Jeezy embodies the Trumpkins of the world, and there are 74 million of them, so when they get their talking points lined up and pushed out, it's both good practice for the brighter people who come after him, and good form to make sure their blatant lies and propaganda are answered. If they go unchecked, others might start to believe the lies.

Moreover, answer the Trumpkin lies gives everyone a chance to see the issues and hear the reality of the situation. At some point some Trumpkins are going to start waking up (OMG can they be the new WOKE culture?) and they will need a point of light to follow once reality starts setting in.

I do understand your point about not feeding the blithering masses, but there are good reasons to keep the fight going.

If a new person came in here and actually believed it then I agree it should be addressed but that isn’t the case here, it’s the same guy addressing the same person and that is pretty much it.

He is full of crap, he knows he is full of crap, we know he is full of crap, he knows we know he is full of crap. When they keep responding to him, they are just giving him air and an excuse to keep it going.

Those who think they are required to push back even when he doesn’t even care about the facts and no one actually reading this aren’t really pushing back at that point. The proper way to deal with it would be to stop responding and giving him that air, just move on and if a new person actually responds to it or asks questions THEN address it, but as it stands, those who are responding him aren’t really pushing back against much when you look at it.

[Santti]

We're wallowing in the same shit. I'm just making an effort to shovel it out, while you're complaining that it's never gonna help. That we should kowtow to those spreading the shit and let them have their day. I can't grasp how you think that's a responsible tactic.

Nobody seems to be taking them seriously, though, is the thing. Like at all. Not much different that doing the same thing with flat earthers. You can try battling it out, sure, but it's kind of a lost cause, as nobody is really considering what they have to say, anyway. Just laughing at them, really.

While you are shoveling it out for sure, I fear you are just shoveling it out of a pit, and onto to the driveway. Which just encourages them to keep filling that pit for you and others to shovel, to see how far you are willing to take it.

While I appreciate the effort, I fear it's counterproductive in most cases in here. Also doesn't help that this almost reads like a challenge to them.

Remember when people from here were telling they were trolling the crazy people in r/The_Donald? I have no doubt in my mind, that these shitstains are doing the same thing, seeing us being the crazy libruls. Both sides, something something.

[Xyonai]

While it's horrible that we have to "detain" children/families, it's very good that we are improving the locations in which we are doing it. The description from WaPo seems good - the right idea being providing the best that we can for a bad situation.

Pretty much my thoughts on it. Hopefully Biden's administration continues to dismantle Trump's inhumane border policies, at the very least.

[Benggaul]

Nobody seems to be taking them seriously, though, is the thing. Like at all. Not much different that doing the same thing with flat earthers. You can try battling it out, sure, but it's kind of a lost cause, as nobody is really considering what they have to say, anyway. Just laughing at them, really.

Pretty much this.

I'm not even bothering reading the responses to my post because I'm just betting there are at least a couple who didn't actually read what I wrote and are still saying "omg but SOMEONE has to counter them!".

Which, if the facilities are at least comfortable and Biden can actually make ground on reigning in ICE being, well, ICE; I see this as a positive thing?

I'm not sure why this would be seen as a negative...

There has to be some sort of facility to house asylum seekers while they're being processed. I can't stand that ICE still has any part in the proceedings and THAT really needs to be addressed, but the fact that Biden's admin seems to be trying to make an effort to make this part much less traumatizing/dehumanizing is a huge step in the right direction, no?

I'm unable to read the full article because of the paywall but I'm not seeing the downside.

[Xyonai]

I'm not sure why this would be seen as a negative...

There has to be some sort of facility to house asylum seekers while they're being processed. I can't stand that ICE still has any part in the proceedings and THAT really needs to be addressed, but the fact that Biden's admin seems to be trying to make an effort to make this part much less traumatizing/dehumanizing is a huge step in the right direction, no?

I'm unable to read the full article because of the paywall but I'm not seeing the downside.

I feel a bit of it is that Trump's border policies were so abhorrent by design, that anything short of 'dismantling it entirely' it just seen by some as perpetuating those exact same policies when looked at sans context. Of course the usual reactionaries are going to see headlines and smugly declare 'Oh-ho~? I thought border camps were literally hitler?!' but w/e, you don't built effective policy when you listen to shitposters.

[Bodakane]

If a new person came in here and actually believed it then I agree it should be addressed but that isn’t the case here, it’s the same guy addressing the same person and that is pretty much it.

He is full of crap, he knows he is full of crap, we know he is full of crap, he knows we know he is full of crap. When they keep responding to him, they are just giving him air and an excuse to keep it going.

Those who think they are required to push back even when he doesn’t even care about the facts and no one actually reading this aren’t really pushing back at that point. The proper way to deal with it would be to stop responding and giving him that air, just move on and if a new person actually responds to it or asks questions THEN address it, but as it stands, those who are responding him aren’t really pushing back against much when you look at it.

Its not about Jeezy. Its about the misinformation. Who pushes it is irrelevant.

[Milchshake]

I'm unable to read the full article because of the paywall but I'm not seeing the downside.

I wondering if that's what is triggering the professional outrage havers.

They dont get to the part that states the facility is being run by BCFS Health and Human Services. A non profit that specializes in sheltering and fostering of youths.

[Hadriker]

I'm not sure why this would be seen as a negative...

There has to be some sort of facility to house asylum seekers while they're being processed. I can't stand that ICE still has any part in the proceedings and THAT really needs to be addressed, but the fact that Biden's admin seems to be trying to make an effort to make this part much less traumatizing/dehumanizing is a huge step in the right direction, no?

I'm unable to read the full article because of the paywall but I'm not seeing the downside.

That's kind of my thinking on the whole thing. The Trump admin treated them horribly, but you have to have a way to house these kids while they await processing so they can go to families/sponsors or whatever.

The very online people on twitter are already attacking it, but the thing i never see is a better solution put forward. They have to do something. At least Biden is trying to do it in a humane way by putting them in actual facilities and not cages.