Page 12 of 15 FirstFirst ...
2
10
11
12
13
14
... LastLast
  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    It's just frustrating to think about it. As always the community needs to fight the devs in order for the features the game needs to be added.
    But, they want their Blizzcon shouts like they are still making a Warcraft RTS and they want to design big raid encounters where they can assume you have one of each class rather than add on use items to the encounter so any comp can complete it.
    It always frustrates me when i think about it. WoW devs are so bloody stubburn and are a legit obstacle to the game getting better.
    Yes, how outrageous of the WoW devs to fail to design the game specifically around what you think is better for it! After all, who better for them to listen to than some random guy on a forum?

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Diaphin View Post
    Wasn't Warcraft 3, the one Warcraft game anyone even played, all about humans, elves and orcs letting go of their differences and work together to fight a common foe?
    If Aliens invaded during WW2 the Nazis and the Allies would've teamed up too. What's your point? They're still enemies otherwise.

    They went back to war immediately after.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    Oh yeah? List them.
    Humans and orcs working together in By Demons be Driven, Enemies at the Gate, Daughters of the Moon, The Druids Arise and Twilight of the Gods. Oh yeah, take that!

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    Prove to me that the Alliance population is so much lower?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Funny you should say that because both Classic and Retail stop you from grouping with the enemy faction.

    ESO is that way ->



    No, lol. The Cata/MoP faction war was started by Varian in Wrath.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Banding together how exactly. I don't recall seeing Alliance player characters in my Horde cinematic. Just because we're not actively killing each other doesn't mean we're ''banding together''.
    Hall of fame does that for me so does logging on during peak hours and seeing maybe 20 alliance keys in the 15 plus range to 100+ horde ones. Factions haven't been relevant except to divide the playerbase in years. Even before warmode certain pvp servers were turned into defacto pve servers due to massive population imbalances.

    So does the addition of mercenary mode because horde had massive queue times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    The equivalent of ''soon''.

    You can't even mythic raid cross realm, and you think they'll let you do it cross faction? They'd need to allow cross realm Mythic first, which is going to revolutionise the way guild recruitment works and cost them a lot of money since people won't server transfer anymore.
    They do allow mythic cross realm when both hall of fames are filled horde one is long since filled now we have to wait a few more months for china to finish boosting alliance guilds to hof lol they are literally selling hof feats because of how high level alliance guilds there are.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    10 man raids are way more fun and vastly easier to organize. Less logistics and management.

    Like it used to be.
    10 man raids massively limit encounter design and tuning.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Hall of fame does that for me
    Hall of Fame only proves there's more good/Mythic raiders on Horde, not that there are more Horde in total.

    This is like seeing there are more men in Engineering than women and concluding " There are more men in the world than women ".

    No, it just means there's more men in Engineering.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GringoD View Post
    Humans and orcs working together in By Demons be Driven, Enemies at the Gate, Daughters of the Moon, The Druids Arise and Twilight of the Gods. Oh yeah, take that!
    Jaina's expedition wasn't part of the Alliance.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    Jaina's expedition wasn't part of the Alliance.
    Looks like you're part of the horde, being a troll and all haha

  7. #227
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    23,388
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    10 man raids massively limit encounter design and tuning.
    I would argue about "massively". Encounters were complicated, difficult and fun when 10 man raids were around.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by GringoD View Post
    Looks like you're part of the horde, being a troll and all haha
    I'm right, though. Jaina was not in Kalimdor in an official/Alliance capacity. Which is why her dad comes to take control of her expedition and wages war on the Horde. That's your Alliance.

    Does Jaina refer to herself as 'Alliance' in Warcraft 3, at all?

  9. #229
    I love it when people say Warcraft is all about Horde vs. Alliance when the respective factions weren't things until WoW, and in WoW, it was only really a thing in Classic, MoP and BfA, with hints of it in Cata and Legion.


    The entire message of WC3 was to work together lmao. Talk about people twisting things to fit their narrative.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I love it when people say Warcraft is all about Horde vs. Alliance when the respective factions weren't things until WoW, and in WoW, it was only really a thing in Classic, MoP and BfA, with hints of it in Cata and Legion.


    The entire message of WC3 was to work together lmao. Talk about people twisting things to fit their narrative.
    That message was in TBC, Wrath, Cata, MoP, WoD, Legion, even BfA. It has basically always been there, contrary to the "HURR DURR IF IT IS RED IT IS DEAD".
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  11. #231
    There will be community problems with cross faction play, yes, but that's not a valid reason to hold off on allowing it or easing into it. The report feature works just fine, even if you believe it doesn't.
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)
    this thread is a waste of internet

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    I would argue about "massively". Encounters were complicated, difficult and fun when 10 man raids were around.
    You're legitimately delusional if you think that 10M Heroic encounters required anywhere near the level of execution of their 25M counterparts. (And yes, before you point out that some 10M Heroic encounters were more difficult than their 25M Heroic versions "because of the number of battle resses" or some other nonsense, please understand that this is the exact problem with a dual raid size paradigm.) The reason 10M Heroic raiding had to go isn't because Blizzard hates small raid groups; it went because balancing two raid sizes for two expansions made every raid encounter shittier. And the reason Blizzard chose 20M as a fixed size has a lot more to do with spec representation than it does size preference. (Yes, this matters to Blizzard even if, in your professional opinion, you think it doesn't.) Besides all this, M+ was released to provide difficult content for smaller groups and help fill the niche that 10M Heroic used to have.

    This is coming from somebody who raided in a Heroic 10M for a majority of MoP and likely wouldn't have got the CEs I did if I hadn't. (Wheelchair accessible Lei-Shen/Ra-den ftw.) Simply making an observation that 10M Heroic raiding doesn't mesh well with Blizzard's vision for high level Mythic raid content doesn't mean somebody hates 10M.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I love it when people say Warcraft is all about Horde vs. Alliance when the respective factions weren't things until WoW
    Ah yes, I forgot that in the First, Second and Third Wars it wasn't the Alliance and Horde, but the Allies and the Axis.

    Oh wait. It wasn't.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    If Aliens invaded during WW2 the Nazis and the Allies would've teamed up too. What's your point? They're still enemies otherwise.

    They went back to war immediately after.
    WotLK wasn't "immediately after". For that matter, WW2 ended open hostilities between them up to today, and that's without Alien invasions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    Ah yes, I forgot that in the First, Second and Third Wars it wasn't the Alliance and Horde, but the Allies and the Axis.

    Oh wait. It wasn't.
    First War was the demonblood Horde vs. the Kingdom of Stormwind. Second War was the same Horde against the Alliance of Lordaeron, which then fell apart in the years between WC2 and WC3. Third War was the various factions of Azeroth and Thrall's Horde against the Burning Legion.

    So no, it wasn't Alliance and Horde from WoW. It wasn't Allies and Axis, either. You're just clueless.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    WotLK wasn't "immediately after". For that matter, WW2 ended open hostilities between them up to today, and that's without Alien invasions.
    WotLK wasn't "immediately after".
    The Horde and Alliance are attacking each other in Ashenvale in Vanilla. It might not be war officially but it is practically.

    You're just clueless.
    Right, the Old Horde ( totally different clans from the Modern Horde ) fought the Humans ( totally different guys from the Modern Alliance ) based in what city exactly? Oh, Stormwind? Remind me where the High King of the totally different from the Alliance of Lordaeron Alliance lives?

    Oh, what a coincidence. Stormwind.

    What about the "New" Horde's warchief/creator/poster boy? Thrall? You know, that guy clad in Orgrim's armor, wielding Orgrim's Doomhammer?

    Yeah man this is a totally different Horde and Alliance. They just happen to have the same Orcish clans, a Warchief that look exactly like Doomhammer except for the face, and a totally different Alliance that has the same races at its core ( Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes ) and is based in the same city as the same kingdom the Horde fought in the first war.

    Totally different.

    Look, buddy. You want to play in groups that are 90% humans as an orc. I get it. It's not happening. The lore of this game means something. It makes no sense for Zandalari trolls to sing kumbaya with the murderers of their king. The Alliance killed people in Zandalar, killed the king, killed Civilians. They tormented the local fauna with Void magic. It makes no sense for Night Elves to heal up and keep alive that one guy that helped genocide their nation, either.

    It just doesn't. Make peace with it. It's an MMO RPG, the lore matters. ESO is that way --->
    Last edited by Kelduril; 2021-02-24 at 12:45 PM.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    The Horde and Alliance are attacking each other in Ashenvale in Vanilla. It might not be war officially but it is practically.
    No, it's not. Skirmishes at the border are not a war. For that matter, it wasn't Alliance vs. Horde, it was two semi-independent subfactions of each. They didn't start mobilising for a war against each other until the end of WotLK going into Cataclysm.

  17. #237
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    23,388
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    You're legitimately delusional if you think that 10M Heroic encounters required anywhere near the level of execution of their 25M counterparts. (And yes, before you point out that some 10M Heroic encounters were more difficult than their 25M Heroic versions "because of the number of battle resses" or some other nonsense, please understand that this is the exact problem with a dual raid size paradigm.)
    By "some other nonsense" like individual skill and responsibility? Especially when it comes to encounter mechanics, healing and dps requirements.

    The reason 10M Heroic raiding had to go isn't because Blizzard hates small raid groups; it went because balancing two raid sizes for two expansions made every raid encounter shittier. And the reason Blizzard chose 20M as a fixed size has a lot more to do with spec representation than it does size preference. (Yes, this matters to Blizzard even if, in your professional opinion, you think it doesn't.) Besides all this, M+ was released to provide difficult content for smaller groups and help fill the niche that 10M Heroic used to have.
    You call 10M heroic "a niche"? When it was around, roughly 80% of guilds raiding heroic/mythic were 10 man (roughly 30k vs 4k). 25man was niche.

    This is coming from somebody who raided in a Heroic 10M for a majority of MoP and likely wouldn't have got the CEs I did if I hadn't. (Wheelchair accessible Lei-Shen/Ra-den ftw.) Simply making an observation that 10M Heroic raiding doesn't mesh well with Blizzard's vision for high level Mythic raid content doesn't mean somebody hates 10M.
    My mythic raiding stopped in WoD, because 20mans are so shit. We cleared Highmaul and BRF mythic and called it quits after that. 20man is a logistical nightmare compared to 10man (ESPECIALLY IN EUROPE due to the overwhelming majority of national guilds), the scheduling of the raids is harder, the player skill difference and 20mans just not being as fun.

    Like healing in 20mans is braindead "spam your effective aoe heals" activity whereas it was fun as hell to juggle the healthbars in a 10man.

    The individual skill differences also make the raiding not fun for everybody. We transitioned from like world top 30-50 10m raiding to 20m and tried to fill the roster with the more casual (yet people who had raided heroic before) and it just didn't work out. Frustration from the "top" guys and overwhelming pressure on the "not-so-top" guys.

    This is what made many people quit the game altogether and shrunk the whole heroic/mythic raiding community from 40k guilds to 4k. From 10 million subs in MoP down to 1 million in WoD.

    And you call this a good decision from Blizzard by ANY metric?
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i've said i'd like to have one of those bad dragon dildos shaped like a horse, because the shape is nicer than human.
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i was talking about horse cock again, told him to look at your sig.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelduril View Post
    Ah yes, I forgot that in the First, Second and Third Wars it wasn't the Alliance and Horde, but the Allies and the Axis.

    Oh wait. It wasn't.
    It was a completely different Alliance and it was a completely different Horde.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, it's not. Skirmishes at the border are not a war.
    Except it's not at the border and you literally have a quest where you assault a night elf building and quests where you murder Night Elf settlement leaders.

    it wasn't Alliance vs. Horde, it was two semi-independent subfactions of each
    First of all, the Warsong Clan/Sentinel whatever are not ''semi independent'', they're part of the Horde/Alliance. Secondly, those two weren't involved.

    They didn't start mobilising for a war against each other until the end of WotLK going into Cataclysm.
    Nah, that's just when the war became official. The Alliance and the Horde are definitely fighting in Ashenvale.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    By "some other nonsense" like individual skill and responsibility? Especially when it comes to encounter mechanics, healing and dps requirements.
    Bullshit. The requirements on 25M Heroic were the same or harder than 10M.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    You call 10M heroic "a niche"? When it was around, roughly 80% of guilds raiding heroic/mythic were 10 man (roughly 30k vs 4k). 25man was niche.
    More bullshit. 10M Heroic was easier to organize. Of course it was more popular. This ease of entry also gave rise to 10M casual Heroic raiding which was one of the worst things to happen to WoW. Blizzard wants players to progress through the hardest difficulty raids, not just farm the easy bosses and call it a day. Wheelchair accessible raiding died with Heroic 10M and the game is better because of it. The "niche" are the people like you who are still obsessed with the idea of 10M Heroic nearly a decade after it disappeared. Give it a rest already. Either that or find a MoP server to live out your fantasies in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    My mythic raiding stopped in WoD, because 20mans are so shit. We cleared Highmaul and BRF mythic and called it quits after that. 20man is a logistical nightmare compared to 10man (ESPECIALLY IN EUROPE due to the overwhelming majority of national guilds), the scheduling of the raids is harder, the player skill difference and 20mans just not being as fun.
    Logistics is part of the challenge of raiding. Why do you think Blizzard's first raid size was 40M? Also nice of you to define "fun" for the entire playerbase like that. That's real nice of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Like healing in 20mans is braindead "spam your effective aoe heals" activity whereas it was fun as hell to juggle the healthbars in a 10man.
    Opinion detected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    The individual skill differences also make the raiding not fun for everybody.
    Oh hey, another opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    We transitioned from like world top 30-50 10m raiding to 20m and tried to fill the roster with the more casual (yet people who had raided heroic before) and it just didn't work out. Frustration from the "top" guys and overwhelming pressure on the "not-so-top" guys.
    You mean to tell me that a new guild ran into issues in its first raid tier clearing content? As a guy who was in a Top 50 US 10M Heroic guild in SoO that transitioned into 20M Mythic, despite raiding from 2:30 AM - 6:30 AM four nights a week, which disbanded shortly after killing Blackhand for the exact same reasons you just described, I'm shocked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    This is what made many people quit the game altogether and shrunk the whole heroic/mythic raiding community from 40k guilds to 4k. From 10 million subs in MoP down to 1 million in WoD.
    Creating imaginary numbers to support your argument isn't a good look. Also, implying that accessibility to something that has traditionally only been something the top 2-5% of the playerbase ever participates in as the sole reason the game became unpopular is laughably irrational. You may as well blame it on Garrisons. (Oh wait, they do that in every anti-WoD circlejerk anyway. Darn.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    And you call this a good decision from Blizzard by ANY metric?
    It's clear where your opinion is on this so there's little-no-chance you'll even hear me out here -- but I don't necessarily think it's the best idea, I just think it's the idea which has resonated the best with both the vision that Blizzard has for endgame raiding as well as the needs of its playerbase. You're free to prefer 10M Heroic but I just can't see Blizzard fixing a system that currently isn't broken (outside of the fact that it fails to appeal to you).
    Last edited by Relapses; 2021-02-24 at 01:11 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •