The Blood Elves discussion thread

[Dazlartist]

Many of my toons are blood elves as the transmog looks great and Silvermoon and the surrounding zones are still great art and immersive. You can park a lv 1 belf in Silvermoon and have the AH and bank to yourself most of the time which is handy for bank alts ( talking to you brutosaur blocking the mailbox by the Org AH)

[Thalassian Bob]

I think my pessimist side isn't expecting more customization until 10.x, but I so wanna be wrong about that.

I think that's unfortunately quite a practical expectation. Especially with the deafening silence on the customisation front since SL went live.

I really hope, as I think you've articulated in the past, that they don't see the expansion to the vanilla race customisation as "done" but rather they keep adding stuff in an on-going process.

I'm still holding out for blood elf druids too and I have been since Cataclysm! Haha...

[Frenchvince]

I think my pessimist side isn't expecting more customization until 10.x, but I so wanna be wrong about that.

Blizzard has said there will be customization additions during and after SL. I just hope they will talk about it during Blizzconline and also announce the customizations of the Allied races.

There could be a new sharing between blood elves and void elves, for example the ranger / farstrider tattoo.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I think that's unfortunately quite a practical expectation. Especially with the deafening silence on the customisation front since SL went live.

I really hope, as I think you've articulated in the past, that they don't see the expansion to the vanilla race customisation as "done" but rather they keep adding stuff in an on-going process.

I'm still holding out for blood elf druids too and I have been since Cataclysm! Haha...

I'm all for really just getting over most class/race combos, but with things are so far, I'm not seeing them adding druids to BE's :/ But I remain hopeful we will be seeing a softening of class/race combos some day.

Blizzard has said there will be customization additions during and after SL. I just hope they will talk about it during Blizzconline and also announce the customizations of the Allied races.

There could be a new sharing between blood elves and void elves, for example the ranger / farstrider tattoo.

I mean they said it was going to be a continued effort to add more customization, but I'm not sure they confirmed it was going to be during SL. I think they said they were planning to, but no solid timeframe, so I am definitely erring on later rather than sooner.

[Thalassian Bob]

I'm all for really just getting over most class/race combos, but with things are so far, I'm not seeing them adding druids to BE's :/ But I remain hopeful we will be seeing a softening of class/race combos some day.

Yeah, I think unfortunately the expansion of shaman and druids is probably quite a low probability because of the extra work totems and druid forms entails.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Yeah, I think unfortunately the expansion of shaman and druids is probably quite a low probability because of the extra work totems and druid forms entails.

Indeed a big issue for druids -could we get by with default shapes and more glyphs?- but totems are relatively less effort, so hopeful about that.

But yeh, even if shape-shifting forms weren't that much of an issue, there would have to be a very good reason why would BE's would take up on druidism, which I feel it's the most distant to them because of their contrast to the Kaldorei, special the animal aspect of it, which feels more primal, and indeed, distant from BE's.

On the other hand, the "Botanist" aspect has made sense since BC, and with the introduction of the Nighborne, it even furthers that connection -as well the arcandor as a mix of arcane and druidic magics- TBH right now, I think both BE and NB have a lot of aspects that fit with the Balance and Restoration specs, but it is on the animal aspects were I feel there's little groundwork.

I see two solutions to that; simply make the horde highborne delve into the animal shape shifting by contact to the horde druid races, elevating their rudimentary druidism much in the way that Worgen did when they met night elves, or alternative, do something completely different, and frame the animal shape-shifting within their respective ranger cultures.

Elves in WoW were introduced as druidic and magica, and that evolved with time to a more arcane focused culture, and the nature aspect of its rangers was downplayed, but even in BC we get remnants of that nature respect in the questing, and it is within the context of a ranger NPC. So in the specific case of Blood Elves -and this could easily have a Nightborne analogue- to frame the shape-shifting aspects of druidism as an analogue within Farstrider Ranger culture

Thus, "Cat Form" and "Bear Form" would have existed as nature attuned rangers in charge of scouting and survival, and again thinking about reframing, these being considered "aspects" the way hunters see them. So then in terms of gameplay, maybe the only difference would be to instead of outright give them cat and bear and travel forms, give them shapes like the moonkin form from glyph of stars.

This could have been seen as something that was always present on their culture and just hadn't been playable, or something that existed before the third war and fell into obscurity and has only been recently reclaimed. Or we can flip it, and and actually frame it as a Nightborne thing -which do have more pronounced Balance/restoration druidic aspects in their current culture- that they have shared with the Blood Elves, and fits with their Farstrider culture, and botanist inclinations.

There is so much potential with the gameplay archetype of druids serving other fantasies, and IMO it's the shapeshifting that offers most problems, but there is so much cool stuff that could be done with them from a cosmetic differentiation approach -like Mechagnome "Druids" were their shapeshift forms are mechas, or let's say Venthyr, where their restoration powers are blood based-

[shoc]

Honestly, there should just be no race restrictions on class.

Druids of every single race would be so amazing. There's an easy solution to make it work for every race: You can shapeshift into any animal you damn please. If a Hunter can tame it a Druid can shapeshift into it. For example:

Cat Form = Fox, Hyena, Raptor, Basilisk, Hound, Spider, Lizard
Bear Form = Boar, Basilisk, Core Hound, Scalehide, Clefhoof, Gorilla, Direhorn, Riverbeast
Flight Form = Bird of Prey, Moth, Spirebat, Wasp, Dragonhawk, Feathermane, Crane, Ray

So you could make a Blood Elf Druid and equip it with Blood Elf appropriate shapeshift appearances if you wanted. Lynx cat form and Dragonhawk flight form would be easy peasy, it wouldn't even be hardcoded, prioritize player choice over what is supposed to be lore accurate and it works out great.

Gnome/Goblin/Mechagnome could just have robo appearances by default but nothing stopping any other race from learning a skill from a book and unlocking mecha-druid forms themselves too. It is exactly the same mechanic as Robo hunter pet tames.

[Thalassian Bob]

Indeed a big issue for druids -could we get by with default shapes and more glyphs?- but totems are relatively less effort, so hopeful about that.

But yeh, even if shape-shifting forms weren't that much of an issue, there would have to be a very good reason why would BE's would take up on druidism, which I feel it's the most distant to them because of their contrast to the Kaldorei, special the animal aspect of it, which feels more primal, and indeed, distant from BE's.

On the other hand, the "Botanist" aspect has made sense since BC, and with the introduction of the Nighborne, it even furthers that connection -as well the arcandor as a mix of arcane and druidic magics- TBH right now, I think both BE and NB have a lot of aspects that fit with the Balance and Restoration specs, but it is on the animal aspects were I feel there's little groundwork.

I see two solutions to that; simply make the horde highborne delve into the animal shape shifting by contact to the horde druid races, elevating their rudimentary druidism much in the way that Worgen did when they met night elves, or alternative, do something completely different, and frame the animal shape-shifting within their respective ranger cultures.

Elves in WoW were introduced as druidic and magica, and that evolved with time to a more arcane focused culture, and the nature aspect of its rangers was downplayed, but even in BC we get remnants of that nature respect in the questing, and it is within the context of a ranger NPC. So in the specific case of Blood Elves -and this could easily have a Nightborne analogue- to frame the shape-shifting aspects of druidism as an analogue within Farstrider Ranger culture

Thus, "Cat Form" and "Bear Form" would have existed as nature attuned rangers in charge of scouting and survival, and again thinking about reframing, these being considered "aspects" the way hunters see them. So then in terms of gameplay, maybe the only difference would be to instead of outright give them cat and bear and travel forms, give them shapes like the moonkin form from glyph of stars.

This could have been seen as something that was always present on their culture and just hadn't been playable, or something that existed before the third war and fell into obscurity and has only been recently reclaimed. Or we can flip it, and and actually frame it as a Nightborne thing -which do have more pronounced Balance/restoration druidic aspects in their current culture- that they have shared with the Blood Elves, and fits with their Farstrider culture, and botanist inclinations.

There is so much potential with the gameplay archetype of druids serving other fantasies, and IMO it's the shapeshifting that offers most problems, but there is so much cool stuff that could be done with them from a cosmetic differentiation approach -like Mechagnome "Druids" were their shapeshift forms are mechas, or let's say Venthyr, where their restoration powers are blood based-

You're very correct in the idea that the gameplay archetype of druids could serve other fantasies. We know that the flora and fauna of Eversong is arcanely managed. Blood elf "druids" could easily be these terraforming mages. It would be very similar to the tauren paladin "Sunwalkers".

But, I also think there's a lot of scope for perfectly natural blood elven druids too. We know the Farstriders have an atypical affinity for the wilds when compared with the rest of Sin'dorei society. And, despite the jokes, the blood elves have been allies of the tauren for almost two decades now. I could easily see an exchange of ideas between a nature-loving tauren druid and a particularly bohemian Farstrider leading to the ranger seeking a deeper connection to the wilds through druidic magic.

The clash between their philosophy and the rest of Thalassian society (quite utilitarian/pragmatic) could lead to some really interesting developments too.

[CharlieIrwin]

This is the danger I warned of in the Legion alpha/beta discussions in an open letter to the devs where I explored the merits and demerits of the Nightborne becoming playable and joining either or both factions. They aren't needed on the horde with the blood elves - and risked just being absorbed and used as purple blood elves in skinny night elf bodies with upturned ear tips.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

You're very correct in the idea that the gameplay archetype of druids could serve other fantasies. We know that the flora and fauna of Eversong is arcanely managed. Blood elf "druids" could easily be these terraforming mages. It would be very similar to the tauren paladin "Sunwalkers".

But, I also think there's a lot of scope for perfectly natural blood elven druids too. We know the Farstriders have an atypical affinity for the wilds when compared with the rest of Sin'dorei society. And, despite the jokes, the blood elves have been allies of the tauren for almost two decades now. I could easily see an exchange of ideas between a nature-loving tauren druid and a particularly bohemian Farstrider leading to the ranger seeking a deeper connection to the wilds through druidic magic.

The clash between their philosophy and the rest of Thalassian society (quite utilitarian/pragmatic) could lead to some really interesting developments too.

Indeed! Overall wherever the form the druidism archetype would take in BE society, I do believe Farstriders would be integral to it, much like how Druids were integral to the introduction of Paladins on Tauren.

But yeah, I think there's a lot of room to look back and around to make druidism possible for Blood Elves. Be it so by taking the rudimentary druidic Farstrider beliefs and building their druidism on that -much like Gilnean Harvest Witches- or to make Blood Elves wholesale learn druidism from other Horde races -most likely to finally heal the dead scar-

[Thalassian Bob]

Indeed! Overall wherever the form the druidism archetype would take in BE society, I do believe Farstriders would be integral to it, much like how Druids were integral to the introduction of Paladins on Tauren.

But yeah, I think there's a lot of room to look back and around to make druidism possible for Blood Elves. Be it so by taking the rudimentary druidic Farstrider beliefs and building their druidism on that -much like Gilnean Harvest Witches- or to make Blood Elves wholesale learn druidism from other Horde races -most likely to finally heal the dead scar-

Ooh! Tying a story of blood elf druidism to the healing of the Dead Scar would be a wonderful way to introduce some class/race lore whilst bringing Quel'Thalas' story (and environment *fingers crossed) forward!

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Ooh! Tying a story of blood elf druidism to the healing of the Dead Scar would be a wonderful way to introduce some class/race lore whilst bringing Quel'Thalas' story (and environment *fingers crossed) forward!

Indeed! If Quel'thalas gets updated -somedaaaaaayyy- that whole narrative would be the perfect way of adding BE druids; what would be more harmonious than magisters and farstriders coming together to learn druidism to heal the dead scar? That would be a neat advancement for BE culture outside their Light worshiping aspects.

Mind you, I say this as someone that doesn't personally care for BE druids, but I do believe that story has a lot of potential.

[Thalassian Bob]

Indeed! If Quel'thalas gets updated -somedaaaaaayyy- that whole narrative would be the perfect way of adding BE druids; what would be more harmonious than magisters and farstriders coming together to learn druidism to heal the dead scar? That would be a neat advancement for BE culture outside their Light worshiping aspects.

Mind you, I say this as someone that doesn't personally care for BE druids, but I do believe that story has a lot of potential.

Yeah, I think it could make for a wonderful arc and, as you say, could help them shimmy out of the corner they've been written into a bit recently (being the token Light-wielders on the Horde side)!

I can see the arguments against blood elven druids, but I've wanted to run around as a lynx and fly as a dragonhawk for ages! Not sure what I'd do about bear form though... Their stag could be a unicorn for a Quel'dorei throwback

Honestly, there should just be no race restrictions on class.

Druids of every single race would be so amazing. There's an easy solution to make it work for every race: You can shapeshift into any animal you damn please. If a Hunter can tame it a Druid can shapeshift into it. For example:

Cat Form = Fox, Hyena, Raptor, Basilisk, Hound, Spider, Lizard
Bear Form = Boar, Basilisk, Core Hound, Scalehide, Clefhoof, Gorilla, Direhorn, Riverbeast
Flight Form = Bird of Prey, Moth, Spirebat, Wasp, Dragonhawk, Feathermane, Crane, Ray

So you could make a Blood Elf Druid and equip it with Blood Elf appropriate shapeshift appearances if you wanted. Lynx cat form and Dragonhawk flight form would be easy peasy, it wouldn't even be hardcoded, prioritize player choice over what is supposed to be lore accurate and it works out great.

Gnome/Goblin/Mechagnome could just have robo appearances by default but nothing stopping any other race from learning a skill from a book and unlocking mecha-druid forms themselves too. It is exactly the same mechanic as Robo hunter pet tames.

I meant to reply to this before but I really like the idea of turning druid forms into a much more expansive feature allegorical to hunter taming. Like hunter pets, the fauna of Azeroth (and beyond) could be placed into categories for each form as you point out.

I think that would be a wonderful way to expand player agency!

[Kelduril]

Yeah, I think unfortunately the expansion of shaman and druids is probably quite a low probability because of the extra work totems and druid forms entails.

Blood Elves make zero sense as Shaman/Druids anyway. They're the descendants of the Highborne that were the complete opposite of snorting leaves and walking barefoot.

[ArmageddonX]

Blood Elf Druids or riot <3 <3 <3

There is already a Belf Druid NPC

[Thalassian Bob]

Blood Elves make zero sense as Shaman/Druids anyway. They're the descendants of the Highborne that were the complete opposite of snorting leaves and walking barefoot.

Haha, I really don't think blood elves would suit the shaman aesthetic no matter how hippy some rangers might be, but I think there's scope for Sin'dorei druids who are more like terraforming magisters/particularly sylvan Farstriders than Malfurion/Cenarius-loving Kaldorei druids. The Gilneans came to "druidism" through their harvest witchcraft and I think other races could fit the druid gameplay mechanically through other magics/philosophies.

[LionSinMaikeru]

Blood Elves are one of my three favorite races. I'm so excited to play them in TBC Classic with their ORIGINAL racials.

I will say from a lore standpoint I really don't like how Sylvanas defected and now the Blood Elves are just...there. I really do wish the Forsaken and Blood Elves defected with her and (in the future) a third faction is created. Maybe called "Outcasts" there was a third faction in WoW's original concept before they settled on just two. I think it would be interesting. Unfotunately, I could see some players being upset if they were Horde one day and then a new faction the next.

Still, as a Blood Elf I am aligned to the dark lady. :P

[Le Conceptuel]

Blood Elves are one of my three favorite races. I'm so excited to play them in TBC Classic with their ORIGINAL racials.

I will say from a lore standpoint I really don't like how Sylvanas defected and now the Blood Elves are just...there. I really do wish the Forsaken and Blood Elves defected with her and (in the future) a third faction is created. Maybe called "Outcasts" there was a third faction in WoW's original concept before they settled on just two. I think it would be interesting. Unfotunately, I could see some players being upset if they were Horde one day and then a new faction the next.

Still, as a Blood Elf I am aligned to the dark lady. :P

Sylvanas has no connection to the Blood Elves other than initially vouching for them to enter the Horde because she was once a High Elf. She and Lor'themar explicitly distrusted one another from the get-go and the Blood Elven government has already long-institutionalized itself as part of the Horde.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Blood Elves make zero sense as Shaman/Druids anyway. They're the descendants of the Highborne that were the complete opposite of snorting leaves and walking barefoot.

Come on, if you are going to have An Opinion, at least read the rest of the conversation

"the complete opposite" is functionally not a thing when Nightborne owe their future, and have large aspects, based on the marriage of arcane and druidism

War2 High Elves are describes as druidic, so there's a historical through-line that could be reframed

They are elves, so they are fully capable of druidism

They have a huge gash of dead terrain they have been trying to heal for years.

They have worked alongside druidic races for years.

You have to learn to separate from what you'd like, than what is possible. And if Tauren learned to be Paladins -regardless how you feel, those are facts- it's as likely that BE's could take up drudism; there are valid reasons for that.

When you say "makes zero sense" it either means you have not actually given it any thought, or that you are to biased to see the actual reasons. Do some self exploration.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, I think it could make for a wonderful arc and, as you say, could help them shimmy out of the corner they've been written into a bit recently (being the token Light-wielders on the Horde side)!

I can see the arguments against blood elven druids, but I've wanted to run around as a lynx and fly as a dragonhawk for ages! Not sure what I'd do about bear form though... Their stag could be a unicorn for a Quel'dorei throwback

Yeah, it's the shapeshifting that would make it a harder sell for me; sure they could just learn it, but TBH I would really prefer something that makes more sense culturally than animal shapeshifting -and as I said before, aspects a la Hunter, or Farstrider, could be neat-

More-over, thinking specifically through nightborne, what if their default shapeshifting looked like the mask illusions in Suramar? "Projection" instead of "Shapeshifting" could fit the NB/BE culture and aesthetics much better, while mantaining the exact same functionality -and of course, customizable like any other arce through the barber shop-

I just love the idea of "Druidism" being used as a wider scope archetype, to allow more fantasy. If we get class skins someday, just imagine mech based "forms" for gnomes! I mean, Tinker as a class skin could work great; Astral powers are laser based, healing is either healing rays or alchemy, shape shifting are different mechs.

[Ardenaso]

I believe it's a mix of Druidic magic and Arcane magic that allowed the thalassians to thrive within their runestones

not sure how a runestone made it to Caer Darrow though